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What is hell?

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CooL_Genesis

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The problem is that nothing in this passage or its context suggests that resurection is only for believers. In order to get a better understanding of what will happen when Christ returns to judge all men we look at other verses to get a fuller picture. This leads us to the verses that clearly state that both believers and unbelievers will be resurected...only to diferent things.

Also, since the Bible clearly talks about eternal punishment we can not say that unbelievers simply cease to exist.

Amen! :thumbsup: :amen:

Hypo, it would appear that you are adding your own wording when you say that the resurrection is "ONLY" for believers. This verse simply does not state this. It states that the Lord IS the resurrection (it's within His power as stated from John 5:21-29) and He IS the Life. It states that those who believe in Him, though they were dead, will live (as stated in numerous locations in the Bible). However, it does not suggest that those who "ONLY" believe in Him will be the "ONLY" ones resurrected. You have added this to the meaning of this verse.

John 5:21-29 clearly states that the Lord will raise ALL that are in the grave, some to the resurrection of life and some to the resurrection of damnation. He alone has been given the power to do this as stated in John 5:22. Why would Jesus say that He will raise some to damnation if this were not the case? He doesn't contradict himself. They are dead, yes... physically and spiritually. Physical death is different from spiritual death, just as our physical bodies are different from our spiritual ones.

Jesus made the statement, "Let the dead bury the dead". He wasn't refering to a physically dead guy burying another... He was refering to the spiritually dead burying each other. He was telling this man to ignore this world and follow me. All those who do not believe and follow the Lord are spiritually dead... right now! This will only worsen after the resurrection as the Bible proclaims! They will know that He is Lord and it will be too late!

I don't, by any means, claim to have the answers about the resurrection. However, I do claim, on the authority of the written Word of God that the Bible does. If it weren't for the Bible, I wouldn't have any preconceived notions about the resurrection or eternal life or damnation. I was blind, but now I see and it's all because of God's written Word and the power of His Holy Spirit, not of myself or my words.

In peace and grace,

-Genesis
 
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mont974x4

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Amen! :thumbsup: :amen:

Hypo, it would appear that you are adding your own wording when you say that the resurrection is "ONLY" for believers. This verse simply does not state this. It states that the Lord IS the resurrection (it's within His power as stated from John 5:21-29) and He IS the Life. It states that those who believe in Him, though they were dead, will live (as stated in numerous locations in the Bible). However, it does not suggest that those who "ONLY" believe in Him will be the "ONLY" ones resurrected. You have added this to the meaning of this verse.

John 5:21-29 clearly states that the Lord will raise ALL that are in the grave, some to the resurrection of life and some to the resurrection of damnation. He alone has been given the power to do this as stated in John 5:22. Why would Jesus say that He will raise some to damnation if this were not the case? He doesn't contradict himself. They are dead, yes... physically and spiritually. Physical death is different from spiritual death, just as our physical bodies are different from our spiritual ones.

Jesus made the statement, "Let the dead bury the dead". He wasn't refering to a physically dead guy burying another... He was refering to the spiritually dead burying each other. He was telling this man to ignore this world and follow me. All those who do not believe and follow the Lord are spiritually dead... right now! This will only worsen after the resurrection as the Bible proclaims! They will know that He is Lord and it will be too late!

I don't, by any means, claim to have the answers about the resurrection. However, I do claim, on the authority of the written Word of God that the Bible does. If it weren't for the Bible, I wouldn't have any preconceived notions about the resurrection or eternal life or damnation. I was blind, but now I see and it's all because of God's written Word and the power of His Holy Spirit, not of myself or my words.

In peace and grace,

-Genesis


:thumbsup: Thanks.

This speaks to what I was trying to hint at in an earlier post. Death, dead, etc are not always refering to the physical state that we most often think about.
 
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HypoTypoSis

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John 5:21-29
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Only those that are in Christ shall - CAN - hear His voice..."my sheep know my voice and come when I call"

resurrection of life and resurrection of judgment are two totally separate and distinct things.

resurrection of life means those that are resurrected to life eternal.

resurrection of damnation - damnation is the same word used earlier in vs 22 (judgment) and does not refer to a deciding who is saved or unsaved but speaks to the rewards and recompense of the saved after they are saved:


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is the first part of the resurrection--the martyrs--

and the rest of the (saved) dead (sleeping) were resurrected after the thousand years...

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they (the martyrs) shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great (it says 'small and great'- which are you? It does NOT say 'good and evil') stand before God; and the books (plural, at least 2 books) were opened: and another (a 3rd) book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead (sleeping-saved) were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.)

And if works do not justify then holding a 'death penalty trial' is redundant for the sentence and conviction was passed before the foundation of the earth was laid and foreknown at the same time those that would be pardoned were also foreknown.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead (saved) which were in it; and death and the grave delivered up the dead (saved) which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (the dispensing of rewards and recompense to the saved for the works in the Lord they performed)
 
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HypoTypoSis

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You reject God and His Son Jesus
As Savior & Lord then that is where
You will end up if you do unless you accept
Christ!

Believing in Jesus for salvation and believing 'hell' properly rendered means 'the grave' are two entirely different, separate and unrelated issues.
 
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HypoTypoSis

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it would appear that you are adding your own wording when you say that the resurrection is "ONLY" for believers.
I would contend it is the other way around, that you are adding your own words and understanding to God's Words.

One must believe in Catholicism's brand of Universalism which believes all mankind is immortal in order to believe resurrection is for all.

But Jesus, Himself, tells us only He is THE Resurrection AND The Life and that NO ONE is resurrected unless they are IN HIM.

So, to say the unsaved are resurrected to life is to contradict Jesus' own words.

To say man is not a soul but that he has, ie possesses a soul, is to make him immortal and that is the pagan belief that also requires places (Purgatory and hell) for them to reside whether they are eventually therein purified enough to finally attain entrance to heaven or not.

God's word is most explicit in that when He breathed His breath of life into man that man "became A living soul". Anything else contradicts God's words.
 
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mont974x4

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No the Bible does not say the only the saved will be reurrected.

In fact your post # 164 says what we have been saying. Both will be resurrected but to diferent things. Which is biblical.


No one has said the unsaved will be resurrected to life. We have maintained that they will be resurrected to eterenal damnation.


I am curious tho. Can you please summarize exactly what it is you beleive as it pertains to this thread?
 
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mont974x4

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I'll start.


Based on all the Scripture I have posted already
I believe hell is a real place.
I believe Christ has the power and authority to resurrect all people, both saved and unsaved.
I beleive unbeleivers will be resurected to eternal damnation..in hell...for eternity.
I believe believers will be resurrected to life with a new body
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 
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HypoTypoSis

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1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

All the above, definitely, only refers to those in Christ.
 
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HypoTypoSis

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Both will be resurrected but to diferent things. Which is biblical.

No one has said the unsaved will be resurrected to life. We have maintained that they will be resurrected to eterenal damnation.

"Resurrect" has only one meaning: a return to life:

cause to become alive again
return from the dead
restore to life

Where do you get this 'we' stuff? Please desist in trying to weight the board (which is improper dialogue) in on your own personal conclusions which, as demonstrated above are erroneous.

Please, first check the dictionary and lexicons the next time.

Are you truly interested in seeking the truth or have you already made up your mind that you know what the truth is and now you are only seeking to defend what you think is so?
 
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mont974x4

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Why do you put such limitations on Christ?

The truth has been posted here. Christ Himself said there are two resurrections. One for the just and one for the unjust. One to eternal life and one to eternal damnation.

It is very clear in Scripture.

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the Way which they call a sect, so serve I the God of our fathers, believing all things which are according to the law, and which are written in the prophets;
Act 24:15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust.


Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:
Joh 5:27 and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.


I ask again...please summarize your position as it pertains to the thread so I can more fully understand where you're coming from.

Is there any Scripture that says the unbeleiver will cease to exist?
 
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HypoTypoSis

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The truth has been posted here.

You mean to say you have posted "your" truth; ie your understanding of what you think it is; which does NOT, imo, match with either the scriptural or dictionary definitions of the word "resurrect".

Links--> "Resurrect" means a return to life:

verb: cause to become alive again
verb: return from the dead
verb: restore to life


I ask again: Are you truly interested in seeking the truth or have you already made up your mind believing that you know what the truth is and now you are only seeking to defend what you think is so?
 
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HypoTypoSis

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I ask again...please summarize your position as it pertains to the thread so I can more fully understand where you're coming from.
The thread title is, What is hell?

My position is that there are only three meanings-- that were changed--circa the Middle Ages--into the Pagan word "hell"; they are:

The grave
The local trash dump
The prison of the fathers of the Nephilim

That is my position.

"Hell" is the English rendering of two different Greek words in the N.T. The English word is from the Anglo-Saxon hel, Genitive case helle = a hidden place, from the Anglo-Saxon helan = to hide. It is in the N.T. used as the translation of two Greek words :--

Gehenna. Gr. geenna. This is the transliteration of the Heb. Gai' Hinnom, i.e. the Valley of Hinnom or "the Valley" of [the sons of] Hinnom, where were the fires through which children were passed in the worship of Moloch.

In the O.T. Tophet was the Heb. word used, because it was a place in this valley.

In our Lord's day the idolatry had ceased, but the fires were still continually burning there for the destruction of the refuse of Jerusalem. Hence, geenna was used for the fires of destruction associated with the judgment of God.

Sometimes, "geenna of fire". See 2Kings 23:10. Isa. 30:33. Jer. 7:31, 32; 19:11-14.

Geenna occurs 12 times, and is always rendered "hell", viz. Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33. Mark 9:45, 47. Luke 12:5. Jas. 3:6.

Hades. Gr. hades, from a (privative) and idein; used by the Greeks for the unseen world. The meaning which the Greeks put upon it does not concern us; nor have we anything to do with the imaginations of the heathen, or the traditions of Jews or Romanists, or the teachings of demons or evil spirits, or of any who still cling to them. The Holy Spirit has used it as one of the "words pertaining to the earth", and in so doing has "purified" it, "as silver tried in a furnace" (see notes on Ps. 12:6). From this we learn that His own words "are pure", but words belonging to this earth have to be "purified".
The Old Testament is the fountain head of the Hebrew language. It has no literature behind it. But the case is entirely different with the Greek language. The Hebrew Sheol is a word Divine in its origin and usage. The Greek Hades is human in its origin and comes down to us laden with centuries of development, in which it has acquired new senses, meanings, and usages.

Seeing that the Holy Spirit has used it in Acts 2:27, 31 as His own equivalent of Sheol in Psalm 16:10, He has settled, once for all, the sense in which we are to understand it. The meaning He has given to Sheol in Ps. 16:10 is the one meaning we are to give it wherever it occurs in the N.T., whether we transliterate it or translate it. We have no liberty to do otherwise, and must discard everything outside the Word of God.

The word occurs eleven times (Matt. 11:23; 16:18. Luke 10:15; 16:23. Acts 2:27, 31. 1Cor. 15:55. Rev. 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14); and is rendered "hell" in every passage except one, where it is rendered "grave" (1Cor. 15:55, marg. "hell"). In the R.V. the word is always transliterated "Hades", except in 1Cor. 15:55 (where "death" is substituted because of the reading, in all the texts, of thanate for hade), and in the American R.V. also.

As Hades is the Divine Scriptural equivalent of Sheol, further light may be gained from the 65 passages given. It may be well to note that while "Hades" is rendered "hell" in the N.T. (except once, where the rendering "the grave" could not be avoided), Sheol, its Hebrew equivalent, occurs 65 times, and is rendered "the grave" 31 times (or 54%); "hell" 31 times (4 times with margin "the grave", reducing it to 41.5%); and "pit" only 3 times (or 4.5 %).

"The grave", therefore, is obviously the best rendering, meaning the state of death (Germ. sterbend, for w 6a2 hich we have no English equivalent); not the act of dying, as an examination of all the occurrences of both words will show.

The rendering "pit" so evidently means "the grave" that it may at once be substituted for it (Num. 16:30, 33. Job 17:16).
The rendering "the grave" (not "a grave", which is Hebrew keber or bor) exactly expresses the meaning of both Sheol and Hades. For, as to direction, it is always down: as to place, it is in the earth: as to relation, it is always in contrast with the state of the living (Deut. 32:22-25 and 1Sam. 2:6-8); as to association, it is connected with mourning (Gen. 37:34, 35), sorrow (Gen. 42:38. 2Sam. 22:6. Ps. 18:5; 116:3), fright and terror (Num. 16:27, 34) mourning (Isa. 38:3, 10, 17, 18), silence (Ps. 6:5; 31:17. Ecc. 9:10), no knowledge (Ecc. 9:5, 6, 10), punishment (Num. 16:29, 34. 1Kings 2:6, 9. Job 24:19. Ps. 9:17 (R.V. = re-turned), corruption (Ps. 16:10. Acts 2:27, 31); as to duration resurrection is the only exit from it (Ps. 16:11. Acts 2:27, 31; 13:33-37. 1Cor. 15:55. Rev. 1:18; 20:5, 13, 14).

Tartaroo (occurs only in 2Pet. 2:4) = to thrust down to Tartarus, Tartarus being a Greek word, not used elsewhere, or at all in the Sept. Homer describes it as subterranean (cp. Deut. 32:22, which may refer to this). The Homeric Tartarus is the prison of the Titans, or giants (cp. Heb. Rephaim, who rebelled against Zeus.
-EWB
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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Many of us are thinking the same thing about you...

I ask again: Are you truly interested in seeking the truth or have you already made up your mind believing that you know what the truth is and now you are only seeking to defend what you think is so?
 
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CooL_Genesis

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Are you truly interested in seeking the truth or have you already made up your mind that you know what the truth is and now you are only seeking to defend what you think is so?

Hypo's mind is made up. I leave this thread in peace and pray that she will find truth.

However, before I go...

Hypo, you had mentioned that the resurrection of some to "damnation", which occurs in John 5:29 means the same or was refering to the word "judgement" which occurs in John 5:22. If this is the case, that means that some who are now "saved" will be damned, according to your interpretation. Because only the "saved are resurrected", from your point of view, they are resurrected to be damned. That's a direct contradiction of scripture, as has been a lot of your posts. If this were indeed the case, may the Lord help us ALL because we would ALL be in danger of damnation and have no eternal security in Christ Jesus, whatsoever. You limit His power, His majesty, and you've twisted His very words. This is dangerous, I hope you can see that.

In love and honesty, I think you need to reread all of the New Testament again with an unbiased approach. Let the scriptures interpret themselves instead of seeking out man's commentaries or opinions. Pray and earnestly seek for the truth in God's word.

In peace and grace,

-Genesis
 
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mont974x4

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The thread title is, What is hell?

My position is that there are only three meanings-- that were changed--circa the Middle Ages--into the Pagan word "hell"; they are:

The grave
The local trash dump
The prison of the fathers of the Nephilim

That is my position.

Thank you. I was already aware of the origin of the word hell.

What do you think will happen when Christ comes to judge the world?
 
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