What is hell?

[JPPT1974]

I dont particularly like to think about it but hell is total separation from God *shivers*

Definately not but this is for a fact
That it is REAL and all that die without God
Will go there for eternity! Sad but true!

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Dean, In response to your "why me" question, nothing at all not at all; although it would be nice if someday you learn to think on your own and be able to say why you believe what you believe without hiding behind voluminously pasted what platitudes not really knowing the why of what you believe as you do. You see, you're only willing to follow the Truth of the Word in the direction you have been raised and taught to go and until you are willing to go wherever the Spirit leads, even and especially, if that means in a direction other than the one you've always gone then the Spirit is not leading because your will is not truly first and foremost submitted to God but, as it is, only to Calvin.

 

[DeaconDean]

Dean, In response to your "why me" question, nothing at all not at all; although it would be nice if someday you learn to think on your own and be able to say why you believe what you believe without hiding behind voluminously pasted what platitudes not really knowing the why of what you believe as you do.

Friend, when we presume to know everything that is that Holy Book, we fly in the face of God. We are to search the scriptures, yes, but we are to also "study to show thyself approved, a workman rightly dividing the word of truth." -2 Tim. 3:16

Since when is it a big sin to see what other people more learned than either one of us has to say in the area of beliefs in scripture?

Wait a minute. Since it obvious that you think I don't know what I'm talking about:

without hiding behind voluminously pasted what platitudes not really knowing the why of what you believe as you do.

I'll just bow out of this thread gracefully. I am so sorry that my quoting of things that were written by the Puritans, the Reformers, and others offended you so much. I'll not bother to address any other of your posts. Since I can't state what I believe.

God Bless you in your convictions

Till all are one.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

I'll just bow out

How much you wanna bet if a search is done on your name and that phrase you are at the top of the list for saying it more than anyone else yet always coming back?

Ever heard the saying, "never say never"?

 

[Flynmonkie]

After much research I see both possibilities, neither are disruptive to the gospel message. Unless, fire and brimstone are part of the equation, which we all know that is not the sort of fear God is looking for out of us.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Since it obvious that you think I don't know what I'm talking about:

Never said that. Said you know what you believe just not why you believe what you believe relying, instead, on voluminous quotes of others to speak for you. If I wanted to talk with dead men I'd commit suicide.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

After much research I see both possibilities, neither are disruptive to the gospel message. Unless, fire and brimstone are part of the equation, which we all know that is not the sort of fear God is looking for out of us.

Explain, please?

 

[Flynmonkie]

Never said that. Said you know what you believe just not why you believe what you believe relying, instead, on voluminous quotes of others to speak for you. If I wanted to talk with dead men I'd commit suicide.

Well now that wouldn't work because the "dead" know nothing...... and we are back to square one...

Lighten up guys! Good grief!

 

[Flynmonkie]

Explain, please?

Meaning, which thinking that there is a hell to me does not detract from the gospel or salvation. Understanding scripture to the idea that it is a symbolic thing is also in line with the gospel. The only difference I see is the growth affecting interpretation of other verses correctly or not by stopping at the conclusion of face value.

Christians have no worry of hell, so why the big deal to investigate past face value. In addition, face value shows contradiction and confusion, symbolism brings a consistency. IMHCO. I tell you when I discovered this, it caused me to question quite a bit, but I gave it to God. I believe, He led me through it. I did not want to go against everything I had been taught, especially because I very much admired my teachers.
Neither one makes a hill of beans difference on walking with God unless Hell is being used as a fear tactic to share the gospel. This I disagree with and would have to lean toward the symbolic meaning as a whole. Is this clearer?

There are some people whom are not ready to move forward with study. Some like to decorate their rut and call it home because it is comfortable. I can get like that at times. I try not to and catch myself when I do, but I do.

Remember to have patience in your explanation. If someone does not want to listen to even try to understand, then so be it. Personally, I investigate everything now.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Well, the strict interpretation of the Greek and Hebrew words used are (the) grave, the trash dump outside of town and (used only once) Tartarus (where the evil angels first spoken of in/@ Gen 6:4) are kept.

It was not until much later that the Norse Pagan word, kel, was used in the then existant Middle Ages English word, hell; at that time the Universalist belief in the immortality of the soul and eternal torment and the subsequent needed Pagan places of Purgatory and hell were also "English-ized".

Although, those concepts were prevalent in all Pagan religions as far back as Nimrod's Babylonian religion which, from there spread to Hinduism and beyond in the east and Egypt, Rome, Greece and beyond in the west.

But from a Judeo-Christian perspective such beliefs were alien from the beginning and only infiltrated as a result of the different periods of Israel's captivity by &/or in Pagan countries and civilizations which, also, includes the early Christian period in the time of Rome and later Constantine.

The historical records easily bear this out.

 

[holdon]

Well, the strict interpretation of the Greek and Hebrew words used are (the) grave, the trash dump outside of town and (used only once) Tartarus (where the evil angels first spoken of in/@ Gen 6:4) are kept.

It was not until much later that the Norse Pagan word, kel, was used in the then existant Middle Ages English word, hell; at that time the Universalist belief in the immortality of the soul and eternal torment and the subsequent needed Pagan places of Purgatory and hell were also "English-ized".

Although, those concepts were prevalent in all Pagan religions as far back as Nimrod's Babylonian religion which, from there spread to Hinduism and beyond in the east and Egypt, Rome, Greece and beyond in the west.

But from a Judeo-Christian perspective such beliefs were alien from the beginning and only infiltrated as a result of the different periods of Israel's captivity by &/or in Pagan countries and civilizations which, also, includes the early Christian period in the time of Rome and later Constantine.

The historical records easily bear this out.

Hell is sometimes (in KJV and in some creeds), the translation of hades the hebrew equivalent of sheol: place of the dead.

Luke 16 is "hades".

Gehenna (equivalent of valley of Hinnom in hebrew) is the greek term for the place of eternal torment. This is also called: "lake of fire".

It is the eternal (without end) destiny of Satan, the false prophet, the beast, and those whose names are not written in the book of life.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

We must be careful when we allow Pagan words and concepts to be used in relation to the scriptures; indeed, it was God, Himself, Who said we were to come out from among them and their ways and have nothing to do with them.

To allow those Pagan influences in can only create confusion and we know that is not scriptural for it is Satan who is the author of lies and confusion.

Hell is sometimes (in KJV and in some creeds), the translation of hades the hebrew equivalent of sheol: place of the dead.

The place of the dead is the grave, it is the unseen place spoken of, the hidden place inside the earth.

Luke 16 is "hades".

1...Gehenna (equivalent of valley of Hinnom in hebrew) is the greek term for the place of eternal torment.

2...This is also called: "lake of fire".

1...This is what the Pagan Greeks believed; not what Israel or the Christians believed. Again, we are to have nothing to do with Pagan beliefs. We must look elsewhere for our answers, not to Pagan understanding.

2...Actually, the lake of fire is the end-all of this creation, heaven and earth and all the evil therein which, also, includes Satan, his followers and those that believe not. See 2 Peter 3:10:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

It is the eternal (without end) destiny of Satan, the false prophet, the beast, and those whose names are not written in the book of life.

"Eternal", in the context used, refers to this age, not from age to age (aion to aion, i.e. eon to eon). Satan will be destroyed, yes, and that is complete and total.

How could the greatest evil this creation has ever known exist throughout the next creation if we are told that "everything" in this creation is destroyed?

In the passage you refer to, the subject is Satan. It is not subject inclusive of the beast and false prophet. They modify the explanation but are not the subject-they are claused out between two commas. The beast is a system, part of the "works" that will be destroyed. The false prophet is physical, and he too will be destroyed with finality.

btw&fwiw, that Revelation passage is the singularly most symbolic passage in the most allegorical book in the entire bible.

Without the multi-reading confusion of that one highly questionable verse the entire cloud of pro-Universalist - Catholic - eternal torment - Purgatory - hell crowd instantly dissipates into nothingness.

 

[holdon]

We must be careful when we allow Pagan words and concepts to be used in relation to the scriptures; indeed, it was God, Himself, Who said we were to come out from among them and their ways and have nothing to do with them.

To allow those Pagan influences in can only create confusion and we know that is not scriptural for it is Satan who is the author of lies and confusion.



"Eternal", in the context used, refers to this age, not from age to age (aion to aion, i.e. eon to eon). Satan will be destroyed, yes, and that is complete and total.

How could the greatest evil this creation has ever known exist throughout the next creation if we are told that "everything" in this creation is destroyed?

In the passage you refer to, the subject is Satan. It is not subject inclusive of the beast and false prophet. They modify the explanation but are not the subject-they are claused out between two commas. The beast is a system, part of the "works" that will be destroyed. The false prophet is physical, and he too will be destroyed with finality.

btw&fwiw, that Revelation passage is the singularly most symbolic passage in the most allegorical book in the entire bible.

Without the multi-reading confusion of that one highly questionable verse the entire cloud of pro-Universalist - Catholic - eternal torment - Purgatory - hell crowd instantly dissipates into nothingness.

Here are the answers you need:

http://www.stempublishing.com/authors/darby/DOCTRINE/07001E.html

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Here are the answers you need:

Was it written by you, yorself? Are they your words, your thoughts on the matter? Can you be questioned as to certain questions and issues that are certain to arise? Can the author be likewise questioned?

 

[CooL_Genesis]

Great article, holdon!

 

[HypoTypoSis]

How could, Satan, the greatest evil this creation has ever known exist throughout the next creation if we are told that "everything" in this creation is first destroyed?

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Was it written by you, yorself? Are they your words, your thoughts on the matter? Can you be questioned as to certain questions and issues that are certain to arise? Can the author be likewise questioned?

Why would that matter? The article seemed to show proper usage of scripture. What does matter is the truth that is in the article. I honestly believe this thread has losted its usefulness at this point and time. There are those that have their mind made up and are not going to change their views. Those that are in search for truth have now seen both views on this topic. What else can be said?

 

[HypoTypoSis]

What else can be said?

Awaiting you answers to Post #137


btw, you passed over my question above:

How could, Satan, the greatest evil this creation has ever known exist throughout the next creation if we are told that "everything" in this creation is first destroyed?

 

[holdon]

Was it written by you, yorself? Are they your words, your thoughts on the matter? Can you be questioned as to certain questions and issues that are certain to arise? Can the author be likewise questioned?

No
Similar
Sure
No (he's dead)

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Awaiting you answers to Post #137


btw, you passed over my question above:

How could, Satan, the greatest evil this creation has ever known exist throughout the next creation if we are told that "everything" in this creation is first destroyed?

Everything doesn't mean God is destroying all his angels, including the fallen Satan.