What is God required to do?

[Kerwin]

Kerwin, do you have children? If so, you know that a two-year old knows how to lie and attempt to deceive without any instruction on your part. That's the "inherent" nature to sin that I was referring to. That type of sin, obviously, is hardwired into our computer.

I am not sure how your example contradicts my point. I do believe we have a differences of understanding but that is because of your next point.

If our "spirit" is corrupt and "chases" after sin how you do explain then the inherent nature of the human condition? If this is the sole reason that God sent Jesus to die on the cross why didn't God simply rewire the human race?

First the reason I reached the conclusion that the spirit of man is corrupt is because we receive a new spirit at baptism just as it is written.

4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

And again

17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

It certainly is not the body that Paul instructed the Romans to put to death so that leaves the spirit of man. That conclusion would be consistent with Galatians 5

16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

To answer your question temptation may well come from the flesh but our desire to fulfill that temptation comes from the corrupt spirit of man. God sent Jesus to the cross that those that believe in him may receive a new spirit created like Christ Jesus.

10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Has the tree born fruit? Was it necessary to cut the tree down or was the man that treated it's roots (Jesus) eventfully successful? If Jesus' attitude is the same on and off the cross, why didn't He pick up a stone and chuck it at the woman caught in adultery - seeing He was the only one in the crowd that was without sin?

I would conclude he decided to suffer the evil she did in hopes that she would repent and change her ways after all he told her “go and sin no more”. As with the fruit tree if she did not bear fruit sooner or later she would be cut down and tossed into the fire as God’s patience is not everlasting.

That's a good example. Even unborn children suffer the effects of sin at the hands of another. As for when a human being commits their first sin I think we and all agree it is before birth see that we are "conceived in sin."

Thank you for the information as I did not remember that.

Is God powerful enough to know the difference?

God created each and every one of us and so He certainly knows what he created.

Was Christ's example on the cross a sufficient enough example?

I am not quite sure what you meant here though Jesus certainly showed us by example how to obey God’s commands even to the extent of dying on the cross. Still there is more to his death on the cross as his death condemns the world for executing an innocent man but in condemning the world it saves those who cry for rescue.

 

[moicherie]

In another thread it seems to be postulated that since there is death and destruction here on earth that somehow God isn't doing His job as He promised. Is the fact that people die an example of God not protecting those that die? Is that true?......

Does God's heart break from the reality of starving children in the world? Does God's heart break from the reality that there are some people that prevent necessary food stuffs to be delivered to starving children? Does God's heart only break for some and not others?

God is love, dominion over the earth was given to man by the Creator, the fact that people suffer starvation, tho we have enough food to feed all, poverty tho we have enough resources to keep all at a decent standard of living says more about humans than it does about the Divine. The irony is that traditional 'Christian' countries dropped the ball a long time ago, cries of more help for the poor gives the response of 'Communism' from the rabid Christian right who seems to think God is a card carrying Republican or Conservative (depending on where you live)

 

[Avonia]

They refuse rescue because they love the thing they need rescuing from. Jesus made a promise in Matthew 5 to those that desired rescue and that promise is fulfilled but those who do not hunger and thirst will see not need to eat and drink.

Wholly inadequate line of reasoning given the scope and nature of the question. But then again, it was a tough question.

 

[Kerwin]

The irony is that traditional 'Christian' countries dropped the ball a long time ago, cries of more help for the poor gives the response of 'Communism' from the rabid Christian right who seems to think God is a card carrying Republican or Conservative (depending on where you live)

You are confusing economic conservatives with social conservatives though some individuals may be both. An economical conservative does not believe it is the government’s job to hand out charity as it is the duty of individuals, charity organizations, and churches. Economical conservatives aid the poor in other ways such as shipping jobs to developing nations. The effect of this is that union workers find themselves without a job in the U.S.

God would probably call both sides evil doers. The social liberals are of the “eat, drink, and be merry” crowd and too many of the rest are hypocrites. Still hypocrites have one advantage and that is they say the right thing.

From what I have seen most starvation occurs in war torn countries. Should we send in our troops?

 

[Kerwin]

Wholly inadequate line of reasoning given the scope and nature of the question. But then again, it was a tough question.

It works for me.

 

[Avonia]

It works for me.

Understood.

The geocentric model of the universe also worked for many.

 

[Kerwin]

Understood.

The geocentric model of the universe also worked for many.

And they were completely reasonable to do so considering the "scope and nature" of what they knew.

 

[Avonia]

And they were completely reasonable to do so considering the "scope and nature" of what they knew.

Exactly. Looking through the telescope is an opportunity to be more reasonable.

But generalizing this example misses all of the transitions and tipping points in the story. There were aspects that were not reasonable. If you remember, there were some people who not only refused to look, but went after those who did.

The overly-simplistic way we talk about sin, and they way we talk about it circularly, is not a substitute for looking through the telescope.

Saying that people refuse to be saved from sin because sin has corrupted them shouldn't make as much sense as it apparently does to many Christians.

Sans the assumption of the teaching being right, it's a somewhat ridiculous line of reasoning.

 

[Kerwin]

Saying that people refuse to be saved from sin because sin has corrupted them shouldn't make as much sense as it apparently does to many Christians.

I am not saying that people who love sin were corrupted by sin, at least in a way to love it from the heart of their being. I believe God created them that way to help purify those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. It is a necessary part of the creation process humanity is still undergoing.

 

[Avonia]

I am not saying that people who love sin were corrupted by sin, at least in a way to love it from the heart of their being. I believe God created them that way to help purify those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. It is a necessary part of the creation process humanity is still undergoing.

You have a nice way of responding - I appreciate that!

 

[Kerwin]

You have a nice way of responding - I appreciate that!

You are welcome. You yourself carry on a pleasant conversation. I must confess though that some find me offensive at times as I strive to be honest in my opinions.

 

[Joe67]

In regards to the question of the OP: What is God required to do?

God does not have to be fair in regards to rewarding us. (He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him).

God does not have to listen to our advice. (He does hear our cries).

He brings about the death of the innocent to save them from evil.

The spirit of the dead return to God who gave it.

What more should God do?

Joe

 

[sentipente]

In regards to the question of the OP: What is God required to do?

God does not have to be fair in regards to rewarding us. (He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him).

Do you really mean that God is unfair? That parenthetical statement should not be interpreted as saying that God only rewards those who seek him. The statement does not say that.

He brings about the death of the innocent to save them from evil.

Did He tell you that or is that your personal opinion?

 

[RND]

God is love, dominion over the earth was given to man by the Creator...

Isn't it just as true that man lost his dominion over the earth when he traded it for the lies Satan was selling?

...the fact that people suffer starvation, tho we have enough food to feed all, poverty tho we have enough resources to keep all at a decent standard of living says more about humans than it does about the Divine.

It also says quite a bit about the sin that engulfs the planet.

The irony is that traditional 'Christian' countries dropped the ball a long time ago, cries of more help for the poor gives the response of 'Communism' from the rabid Christian right who seems to think God is a card carrying Republican or Conservative (depending on where you live)

I wonder how many examples you might have of "non-Christian" countries consistently coming to the aide of their fellow man time and time again.

 

[Joe67]

Do you really mean that God is unfair? That parenthetical statement should not be interpreted as saying that God only rewards those who seek him. The statement does not say that.Did He tell you that or is that your personal opinion?

Yes, that is the 2nd lesson God teachs us, that He is not fair.

God rewarded the men who threw Jonah overboard.

When He gives you a white stone with a new name, no one else gets to know.

Joe

 

[sentipente]

Yes, that is the 2nd lesson God teachs us, that He is not fair.

God rewarded the men who threw Jonah overboard.

When He gives you a white stone with a new name, no one else gets to know.

Joe

The lesson you draw should not be confused as the lesson God teaches. You are yet to prove that only those who meet the standard you presented are rewarded. I wish you well as you await your white stone.

 

[sentipente]

Isn't it just as true that man lost his dominion over the earth when he traded it for the lies Satan was selling?

That is your opinion. You have nothing solid to base this on.

 

[RND]

That is your opinion. You have nothing solid to base this on.

Senti, man was given full dominion over the Earth at creation.

Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” - Genesis 1:26

God had but one requirement to keep that dominion:

Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” - Genesis 2:15-17

Because man allowed himself to be deceived outside God's will man was banished from the Garden of Eden where his dominion was taken away. Satan then became the 'god' of this age.

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. - 2 Corinthians 4:4

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: - Ephesians 2:2

This dominion was returned to those that believe in the Son of Man.

[And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. - Colossians 2:15

Eventually, the entire Earth will be refreshed and made anew under the full dominion of Jesus Christ.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. - Revelation 21:5

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. - Revelation 21:1

 

[Joe67]

Love can not be required. Love does not require.

Love flows without form. Love is manifested gently.

Is there any place for unlove? for ungentle? for form?

Joe

 

[sentipente]

Senti, man was given full dominion over the Earth at creation.

Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” - Genesis 1:26

God had but one requirement to keep that dominion:

Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” - Genesis 2:15-17

You seem to be having trouble with the basic stuff. Man was never threatened with a loss of dominiion and man has never lost dominion.