What is god purpose for the entire universe?

[AndrewRyan]

If you think about it we are a mere speck of dust in a galaxy thats apart of millions of galaxies. So whats the point for all of them?

 

[1234321]

If you think about it we are a mere speck of dust in a galaxy thats apart of millions of galaxies. So whats the point for all of them?

Since you asked what God's purpose for the universe is, I will assume we both will at least entertain God exists, for the sake of argument. Moreover, I will also assume we both understand the definition of "God" - as in an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient entity.

I don't know God's purpose for the entire universe. I think His purpose for us is for us to intimately know Him like a child knows His parent. He want to teach us and raise us from the foundation up. Us being specs of dirt is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, because each sun is a spec of dust in a galaxy, and each galaxy is a spec of dust in the universe. A more interesting question may be "how does an infinitely powerful, infinitely large, infinitely knowing communicate with the infinitesimal, and why?" Philosophically, something as great as God even giving us the time of day by allowing this planet to be so beautifully habitable - for so long, and preserving us and this planet despite millions of possible ways it could all be gone is a beautiful thing. Perhaps this infinite doesn't want to overwhelm us by just showing His awesome face and scaring us to literal death. Maybe He wants us to notice how grand of a creation He has made, so that we can start small, and humbly. Then, as we grow, what we will learn will grow.

As to your second question, it is somewhat related to the last three sentences of the above paragraph. Firstly, Christians believe that as a default purpose, the galaxies were put in the heaven by God for signs, wonders, seasons, etc. Ancient cultures can confirm this, and modern astrology exploits this reasoning quite well.

If you assume we are alone in the universe (which is not necessarily an idea unique to Christianity, Hinduism, Hebrew, or Islam,) then perhaps these galaxies are structures that

1) preserve the integrity of this tiny planet we are on (in terms of celestial, classical, quantum mechanics and chromodynamics, electrodynamics, radiation, etc.). Since we are assuming we are alone in the universe, it should not be out of the ordinary to assume whoever created the universe created the structures to preserve this little neighborhood we are in, so we aren't obliterated.

2) Once we get to know God better, and show Him we love Him, perhaps those galaxies and planets are for us, just waiting for us to get to a point at which we can accept such a gift. You wouldn't give a 4-year-old a Ferarri for his/her birthday, because they can't even drive, let alone appreciate such a gift. Still, Ferarris sit on the lot of several dealerships around the world, and more are created every year. Likewise, we may not be ready to explore/inhabit other cosmic neighborhoods yet, but that doesn't mean that they cant be made as an inheritance for us. Moreover, since God creates everything perfectly, these structures will be preserved by His hand for however long He want it to be.



If we assume we are NOT alone in the universe, then several conclusions can be made, based on historical manuscripts, anecdotal evidence, and conjecture.

1) Some of these galaxies are where the Hosts of Heaven, spoken of in Genesis, do their business for God. Let's call them angels for local relevance. Perhaps angels are working to preserve the galaxies as per the word of God. Perhaps angels are purging these galaxies of malevolence so that life can exists on these structures.

2) Hinduism, Islam, Hebrew, and Christianity all speak about entities that are described as gods (as in lesser than the Creator,) or in the monotheistic religions described as Jinn, Demons, or Fallen Angels. Jinn/Demons are inter-dimensional beings like fallen angels, able to invade created things, and possess their vessel thereof. Fallen Angels can, in Hebrew and Christianity, transsubstantiate - that is, morph from spiritual to physical and back as often as they like. In Christianity, the fallen angels are spiritually bound. However, their offspring (yes, offspring) are not. These beings, like their fathers the fallen angels, are haters of the Creator and incredibly rebellious (according to monotheism.) Perhaps there is a war in Heaven between the malevolence of these beings, and the goodness of God's true obedient angels.

3) These structures, having said everything in (1) and (2) may still be available for us to explore once we are spiritually mature.

4) These structures are there to represent the greatness of God's handiwork, and His power.

5) These structures are there so that, in walking the path of learning and building a relationship with God, we can ask questions like you have. Instead of "what is God's purpose for the universe," remove universe, and insert your name - your personality.


I think it is wrong to think of yourself as just a spec of dust. If you believe it, you are actually a child of the most High God - the King of the entire universe. It is unfathomable to comprehend that something as [seemingly] insignificant as a human can be a child of the most High God, but you have to start somewhere. Bill Gates, Michael Jordan, Oprah, David Letterman, you, your mom, my mom, and I all started out as a fertilized egg cell about 100 micrometers in diameter. Ironically enough, that is also about diameter of a speck of coal dust. So, eventually if we are good children, we can go from being cosmic/spiritual specs of [coal] dust to fully grown adult spiritual/cosmic children of God. He just want to raise us, and love us like a mother and father would raise their children.

 

[AndrewRyan]

Since you asked what God's purpose for the universe is, I will assume we both will at least entertain God exists, for the sake of argument. Moreover, I will also assume we both understand the definition of "God" - as in an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient entity.

I don't know God's purpose for the entire universe. I think His purpose for us is for us to intimately know Him like a child knows His parent. He want to teach us and raise us from the foundation up. Us being specs of dirt is really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, because each sun is a spec of dust in a galaxy, and each galaxy is a spec of dust in the universe. A more interesting question may be "how does an infinitely powerful, infinitely large, infinitely knowing communicate with the infinitesimal, and why?" Philosophically, something as great as God even giving us the time of day by allowing this planet to be so beautifully habitable - for so long, and preserving us and this planet despite millions of possible ways it could all be gone is a beautiful thing. Perhaps this infinite doesn't want to overwhelm us by just showing His awesome face and scaring us to literal death. Maybe He wants us to notice how grand of a creation He has made, so that we can start small, and humbly. Then, as we grow, what we will learn will grow.

As to your second question, it is somewhat related to the last three sentences of the above paragraph. Firstly, Christians believe that as a default purpose, the galaxies were put in the heaven by God for signs, wonders, seasons, etc. Ancient cultures can confirm this, and modern astrology exploits this reasoning quite well.

If you assume we are alone in the universe (which is not necessarily an idea unique to Christianity, Hinduism, Hebrew, or Islam,) then perhaps these galaxies are structures that

1) preserve the integrity of this tiny planet we are on (in terms of celestial, classical, quantum mechanics and chromodynamics, electrodynamics, radiation, etc.). Since we are assuming we are alone in the universe, it should not be out of the ordinary to assume whoever created the universe created the structures to preserve this little neighborhood we are in, so we aren't obliterated.

2) Once we get to know God better, and show Him we love Him, perhaps those galaxies and planets are for us, just waiting for us to get to a point at which we can accept such a gift. You wouldn't give a 4-year-old a Ferarri for his/her birthday, because they can't even drive, let alone appreciate such a gift. Still, Ferarris sit on the lot of several dealerships around the world, and more are created every year. Likewise, we may not be ready to explore/inhabit other cosmic neighborhoods yet, but that doesn't mean that they cant be made as an inheritance for us. Moreover, since God creates everything perfectly, these structures will be preserved by His hand for however long He want it to be.



If we assume we are NOT alone in the universe, then several conclusions can be made, based on historical manuscripts, anecdotal evidence, and conjecture.

1) Some of these galaxies are where the Hosts of Heaven, spoken of in Genesis, do their business for God. Let's call them angels for local relevance. Perhaps angels are working to preserve the galaxies as per the word of God. Perhaps angels are purging these galaxies of malevolence so that life can exists on these structures.

2) Hinduism, Islam, Hebrew, and Christianity all speak about entities that are described as gods (as in lesser than the Creator,) or in the monotheistic religions described as Jinn, Demons, or Fallen Angels. Jinn/Demons are inter-dimensional beings like fallen angels, able to invade created things, and possess their vessel thereof. Fallen Angels can, in Hebrew and Christianity, transsubstantiate - that is, morph from spiritual to physical and back as often as they like. In Christianity, the fallen angels are spiritually bound. However, their offspring (yes, offspring) are not. These beings, like their fathers the fallen angels, are haters of the Creator and incredibly rebellious (according to monotheism.) Perhaps there is a war in Heaven between the malevolence of these beings, and the goodness of God's true obedient angels.

3) These structures, having said everything in (1) and (2) may still be available for us to explore once we are spiritually mature.

4) These structures are there to represent the greatness of God's handiwork, and His power.

5) These structures are there so that, in walking the path of learning and building a relationship with God, we can ask questions like you have. Instead of "what is God's purpose for the universe," remove universe, and insert your name - your personality.


I think it is wrong to think of yourself as just a spec of dust. If you believe it, you are actually a child of the most High God - the King of the entire universe. It is unfathomable to comprehend that something as [seemingly] insignificant as a human can be a child of the most High God, but you have to start somewhere. Bill Gates, Michael Jordan, Oprah, David Letterman, you, your mom, my mom, and I all started out as a fertilized egg cell about 100 micrometers in diameter. Ironically enough, that is also about diameter of a speck of coal dust. So, eventually if we are good children, we can go from being cosmic/spiritual specs of [coal] dust to fully grown adult spiritual/cosmic children of God. He just want to raise us, and love us like a mother and father would raise their children.

He wants us to know how grand his scheme is but Nobody even knew there were other solar systems until thousands of years until humans figured it out? And other solar systems and galaxies aren't even mentioned in the bible, only stars. Not even mentioning other planets.

 

[dysert]

If you think about it we are a mere speck of dust in a galaxy thats apart of millions of galaxies. So whats the point for all of them?

When I was a kid I thought that the reason for all the other worlds in the universe was to give us something to do throughout eternity -- explore all of God's vast creation. Sure beats sitting on a cloud and playing a harp all the time ;-)

 

[1234321]

He wants us to know how grand his scheme is but Nobody even knew there were other solar systems until thousands of years until humans figured it out? And other solar systems and galaxies aren't even mentioned in the bible, only stars. Not even mentioning other planets.

Nomenclature, or rather, semantics.

Solar system, Galaxy, Universe, Superstructures, etc. are all scientific nomenclature for layman knowledge that has been around for ages. The ancients were not stupid; on the contrary, they had incredible insight about the world around them, the heavenly bodies above (categorized into the aforementioned scientific terms in the first sentence,) and their movements.

The bible mentions the Pleiades and Orion constellations in the book of Job, one of the oldest books of the bible. Suffice it to say (given the context of the scriptures,) that these were not the only known constellations in the visible heaven. Several ancient spiritual sects have known about the heavens, the heavenly bodies, and their journeys. Stories have been built upon events in the cosmos.

Humans did not all of a sudden become intelligent at the Enlightenment advent. Ancient Greece, Babylon, Persia, Israel, Sumer, Nod, and several other civilizations were just that - civilizations, because they were knowledgeable in science, technology, metallurgy, physics, cosmology, astronomy, chemistry and biology. The "dumbing down" of civilizations came when political entities suppressed knowledge within commoners, and made knowledge that was readily available secret from the layman. Only certain people were deemed worth to know the "secrets," which really weren't secrets to begin with, and these "worthy ones" became Chaldean, Sorcerers, Gnostic, Philosophers, Architects, Masons, and ultimately what we call a scientist today.

The reality is God makes His creation obvious to those that humble themselves to see it. If, you choose to make a scientist your god and assume s/he knows better than you, then that is your choice. You will forever be led by philosophical chains, at the fickle whim of the variability in validity of "science" and "scientists." If, however, you choose to be your own philosopher, and seek out these questions you have with an open mind not polluted by what "science" says is possible, then perhaps you can break those chains. Moreover, if you entertain the idea that this God exists, and you see Him with all your heart, He will reward you with wisdom that makes the intelligence of Stephen Hawkins look like a wet carrot.

And, by the way, a planet is a Greek word for a heavenly body that did not move in the same predicted [at the time] relation as the other observed heavenly bodies. Planet in Greek is "Aster Planetes," Meaning "Wandering Star." The very name Planet has roots in assuming every heavenly body was a "star." Everything was considered a star, but that doesn't mean every "star" was the same. Venus, Mercury, and Jupiter, for example, were well studied way before the enlightenment. It is just with the advent of the enlightenment that the specificity of these "stars" allows us to classify them as something else. It is like saying there are four elements: earth (metals, semi-conductors, metalloids,) fire (plasmas,) wind (gas,) and water (liquid elements or molecules.) With the specificity of physical methods of study, we can now classify these four "elements" into "molecules," then into "atoms," then into "subatomic particles," then into "quarks, fermions, bosons, and leptons," then into "hadrons," and now we are trying to classify it into "Higgs." It is all relativity; it is semantics; it is nomenclature. It is not mutually inclusive with knowledge.

Jesus calls humans trees because we have limbs, branches that are our family, and herb-bearing fruit that produce more trees (people.) Does that mean we are trees? It is all about context. God's creation is as real as it gets. Humans philosophically understanding it with our own wisdom is where the problems occur. That is why spiritualists seek the heart of the Creator - to know Him and His creation, His purpose for us, and to love Him as He loves us.

 

[juvenissun]

When I was a kid I thought that the reason for all the other worlds in the universe was to give us something to do throughout eternity -- explore all of God's vast creation. Sure beats sitting on a cloud and playing a harp all the time ;-)

Good point.

 

[Michael]

If you think about it we are a mere speck of dust in a galaxy thats apart of millions of galaxies. So whats the point for all of them?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7440288/

Maybe it takes billions of them to add up to a whole being?

 

[rush1169]

I think I had read somewhere that all the universe is needed for earth and life to work the way it does.

 

[Loudmouth]

I think I had read somewhere that all the universe is needed for earth and life to work the way it does.

Not at all. You don't even need another solar system or a single star in the sky to make life and the earth work. All we need is in this solar system.

In fact, it could be argued that all of those other cosmological bodies represent threats to life on Earth. A gamma ray burst, rogue black hole, or nearby supernova explosion could spell the end of life on Earth.

It also seems quite presumptuous to believe that the entire universe was made for us. It's a bit like a single bacterium under my fridge thinking that the whole house was built just for him. For all we know, we were never an intended outcome. If this universe has a creator perhaps that creator was trying to create a sterile universe, and failed. Perhaps the creator of the universe is some high school kid from an advanced alien race who tried to create a sterile universe with as many black holes as possible. Since life only developed on a few planets perhaps he got a B+ on the assignment.

So even if this universe has a creator it still doesn't mean that it was created for us, and given the amount of stuff ou there that has nothing to do with our existence I would say that this is very likely.

 

[Jamin4422]

I think I had read somewhere that all the universe is needed for earth and life to work the way it does.

Perhaps you mean the "[FONT=arial, sans-serif] Pauli Exclusion Principle". Everything is connected to everything else. [/FONT]

Brian Cox - Everything is Connected to Everything - YouTube

 

[AECellini]

Perhaps you mean the "[FONT=arial, sans-serif] Pauli Exclusion Principle". Everything is connected to everything else. [/FONT]

the pauli exclusion principle states that no two fermions, for example two electrons, can be in the same quantum state at the same time.

this has nothing to do with what rush was talking about.

 

[rush1169]

Not at all. You don't even need another solar system or a single star in the sky to make life and the earth work. All we need is in this solar system.

So, if every other atom/particle of the universe didn't exist - that is, we only start with the number of atoms/particles from our solar system, our new, limited universe would have still 'banged' into existance and we would end up with our solar system and nothing else?

I would have thought, maybe wrongly, that there wouldn't have been enough stuff to 'bang'. Actually, your statement that we need nothing else except our sun and sister planets seems so patently false that I can only assume that you mean that now that it's established, one could remove the rest of the universe and we'd be just fine, but in the beginning (before our solar system formation) is a different story. Is that a fair interpretation?

 

[dysert]

It also seems quite presumptuous to believe that the entire universe was made for us. It's a bit like a single bacterium under my fridge thinking that the whole house was built just for him. For all we know, we were never an intended outcome. If this universe has a creator perhaps that creator was trying to create a sterile universe, and failed. Perhaps the creator of the universe is some high school kid from an advanced alien race who tried to create a sterile universe with as many black holes as possible. Since life only developed on a few planets perhaps he got a B+ on the assignment.

So even if this universe has a creator it still doesn't mean that it was created for us, and given the amount of stuff ou there that has nothing to do with our existence I would say that this is very likely.

It's not presumptuous at all if you accept the Christian beliefs. Humans, not bacteria, were created in the image of God. God became a human, not a bacterium. God, as omnipotent, didn't fail at creating exactly what He wanted to create. The Creator wasn't someone from an alien race. We don't know that life exists on any other planets.

I guess it all depends on the beliefs you start with.

 

[Loudmouth]

It's not presumptuous at all if you accept the Christian beliefs.

Those christian beliefs are presumptuous.

Humans, not bacteria, were created in the image of God. God became a human, not a bacterium.

It is quite presumptuous to believe that the all powerful creator of the universe made us in his image, especially given the fact of our place in the universe. Also, Jesus being the Son of God is a faith based belief, not an evidenced one.

God, as omnipotent, didn't fail at creating exactly what He wanted to create. The Creator wasn't someone from an alien race.

Do you have evidence to back any of this?

I guess it all depends on the beliefs you start with.

I would hope that you would form your beliefs after looking at the evidence instead of before.

 

[HitchSlap]

Perhaps you mean the "[FONT=arial, sans-serif] Pauli Exclusion Principle". Everything is connected to everything else. [/FONT]

Don't worry, even Deepak Chopra gets confused with QM.

Oneness and Non locality with Deepak Chopra - YouTube

Pseudoscientific woo woo ^^^

 

[dysert]

Those christian beliefs are presumptuous.

That you believe my beliefs are presumptuous is presumpuous. There. I'm glad that's setttled.

It is quite presumptuous to believe that the all powerful creator of the universe made us in his image, especially given the fact of our place in the universe. Also, Jesus being the Son of God is a faith based belief, not an evidenced one.

You'll notice I've only been talking about beliefs, not evidence. Besides, the Bible says we were created in His image.

God, as omnipotent, didn't fail at creating exactly what He wanted to create. The Creator wasn't someone from an alien race.

Do you have evidence to back any of this?

By definition, an omnipotent being can create whatever he wants. The Creator wasn't someone from an alien race, because the Creator has existed for all eternity. I don't believe the same could be said for a race, alien or otherwise.

I would hope that you would form your beliefs after looking at the evidence instead of before.

Often times beliefs are formed when someone is young and before they have an abundance of evidence to look at. But if we wanted to look at evidence, I always go back to the consistency, inerrancy, and fulfilled prophecy of the Bible, which I believe is outside the scope of this thread.

 

[dbcsf]

If you think about it we are a mere speck of dust in a galaxy thats apart of millions of galaxies. So whats the point for all of them?

What is really important to our faith? What is really important is our spirits. We do interact in the world, there is a physical element to our lives, but it is our spirits which experience Jesus.

Perhaps what we really need is a God who creates our universe, as in our personal universe. The universe we perceive, the world in which we make spiritual choices, moral choices, relational choices is the universe which matters.

Whether God created the physical universe is really irrelevant to me. My God is the master of the universe in which I live. Jesus saved me, lives within me, and gives meaning and purpose to my life.

 

[Loudmouth]

You'll notice I've only been talking about beliefs, not evidence. Besides, the Bible says we were created in His image.

I don't doubt that it does say that. The question is, is it true?

Why would God create a universe for us when 99.999999999999999+% of it is inhabitable for us, and has nothing to do with us? I think my analogy earlier hits the nail on the head. We are like a bacterium stuck to the bottom of the fridge thinking that the whole house was made for just that one bacterium.

 

[GladJoy]

I think if you ask what God's purpose for all of existence in a Christian Forum, I want to assume it a Christian God you are talking about as revealed in the Bible.

To carry on, the Bible also goes on to describe the reasons God does everything and that is so His name would be made great and He would be glorified. (I don't think this is too difficult to demonstrate from the scriptures!)

 

[GladJoy]

I don't doubt that it does say that. The question is, is it true?

Why would God create a universe for us when 99.999999999999999+% of it is inhabitable for us, and has nothing to do with us? I think my analogy earlier hits the nail on the head. We are like a bacterium stuck to the bottom of the fridge thinking that the whole house was made for just that one bacterium.

Or it means God is demonstrating something.