What is Fascism?

[Aussie Pete]

For posterity: "Public school" in the UK means "private school" in Aus. Britannica: "Public school, also called independent school, in the United Kingdom, one of a relatively small group of institutions educating secondary-level students for a fee and independent of the state system as regards both endowment and administration." -- Likewise, "public school" in Aus originally refers to the 'Greater Public Schools' which were independent or church-run. It's worth noting that this was during penal colony times when there was practically no education here, not until the Public Schools Act of 1866. Also noting the motivation, that "The first schools of the British settlers were concerned to foster the moral well-being of the 'rising generation' of native-born convict children." Education | The Dictionary of Sydney. Effectively inmate control on this God-forsaken prison island.

I went to both 'public' and 'private' schools. I can attest that it's true that both are "indistinguishable from Nazism". I've reflected for decades on this and my school mates have similar feelings of trauma, of Stockholm syndrome, and having 'survived' the system. While there are pleasurable aspects, neither places are pleasurable and this is down to the teachers.

Generally, a student's right to question a teacher (in honest interest) is denied in both, until perhaps senior year. Disruptions are penalised, be it lateness, class orderliness or uniformity, compliance to the regiment set by the teacher. Effectively it's dictation and indoctrination. Both systems dehumanise the student, reducing a person to a number and or a last name, like at Auschwitz. Whereas God addresses people by first name, not respecting ancestry or tradition. And with that comes special treatment for those born with the 'right' last name, a relative of a teacher or famous alumnus. Head teachers, deputy principals, and principals are effectively off limits in all regards, demigods or gods seen only at assemblies or when handing out punishment. They are beyond reproach and their decisions are final. Autocrats. -- There are ofc exceptional teachers but on the whole they are altogether complicit, united. Master and slave dialectic.-- The Scandinavian system is the very opposite, very flat, encourages 2-way communication, and disruptions or interruptions (positive ones) are embraced. The idea is that the collective community work together to solve the problem that one student has presented. Practice of true democratic ideals, that one person has freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion and the right to a fair trial.

But as to "fascism", private school may be that, but it's more so the embodiment of "elitism" that the minority group in power is above others, financially, ideologically, culturally, socially, even above the church and God in a sense. That there's "It's one rule for us and another for them. If you've got money and power you can do what you want."

They exist in an aristocratic apartheid bubble, segregated from the rest of society. A narcissistic self-serving bubble, which doesn't necessarily respect family, ancestry, genetics, or clan. It's completely self-serving and whatever they want it to be. The ultimate clique. Inner court. Debutants. Which is actually feudalism: King, nobles, knights, peasants. This is increasingly evident in the way large companies, blue chips, tech giants, construction giants, etc, operate. Just like the ancient world of Babylon and Egypt.

State schools (as in taxpayer funded) in Australia often turn out unemployable, entitled, narcissistic brats who know all their rights and dodge all responsibility. Australia is not quite as elitist as the UK, but it still has it's social structures, just not as rigid. It is a great advantage to go to one of the elite schools here, but not like in the UK.

Since human nature does not change, I'm not surprised by any of this. The rich will always take advantage of the poor and the poor will resent and hate the rich. Hence the addiction to gambling.

 

[philadelphos]

"The first schools of the British settlers were concerned to foster the moral well-being of the 'rising generation' of native-born convict children." Education | The Dictionary of Sydney. Effectively inmate control on this God-forsaken prison island.

If morality is not taught and practiced then a country inevitably descends into immorality. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 Jn 3:7)

Private schools are not superior. They aim high but fall short.

"Nature and extent of child sexual abuse in schools: Almost one in three of all survivors we heard about in private sessions (2,186 survivors or 31.8 per cent) told us they were sexually abused in a school setting as a child. Of these survivors: three-quarters (75.9 per cent) said they were abused in non-government schools, of which 73.8 per cent identified a Catholic school and 26.4 per cent identified an Independent school" https://www.childabuseroyalcommissi...lt/files/final_report_-_volume_13_schools.pdf

Also, "Particular institutional factors in non-government schools may increase the risk of child sexual abuse and prevent disclosure and appropriate responses. Factors include concern for a school’s reputation and financial interests; hyper-masculine or hierarchical cultures; a sense of being part of a superior and privileged institution; the selection of ex-students for employment; and long-serving principals in governance structures with little or no accountability in the area of student wellbeing and safety. Non-government schools are also more likely than government schools to be boarding schools, or to employ people in religious ministry. We heard from a disproportionate number of survivors who were abused in a boarding school setting or by people in religious ministry in a school. ... 1,060 (48.5 per cent) told us they experienced other forms of abuse and neglect. Emotional maltreatment, such as psychological abuse, bullying, harassment, intimidation, social isolation and ridicule by adults and other children, was common alongside child sexual abuse in schools. This type of maltreatment occurred in both historical periods (pre-1990) and contemporary periods (from 1990 onwards). ... Psychological, physical and emotional violence by older students towards younger students was a particular feature we heard about in prestigious all-boys schools. We heard of incidences where older students were violent and emotionally abusive towards younger students, sometimes through hazing or harmful initiation practices intended to degrade and humiliate new students."

 

[Skye1300]

I really need to read this thread because I've always had trouble completely understanding Fascism, Socialism and Communism. I know they are bad/wrong and take away people's rights, but other than that I don't fully understand the terms. I tried to look the terms up once but couldn't get a clear answer online.

 

[Matt5]

Ayn Rand dictionary:

"The main characteristic of socialism (and of communism) is public ownership of the means of production, and, therefore, the abolition of private property. The right to property is the right of use and disposal. Under fascism, men retain the semblance or pretense of private property, but the government holds total power over its use and disposal."

—Ayn Rand Lexicon

Where do we see fascism today?

 

[philadelphos]

Ayn Rand dictionary:

"The main characteristic of socialism (and of communism) is public ownership of the means of production, and, therefore, the abolition of private property. The right to property is the right of use and disposal. Under fascism, men retain the semblance or pretense of private property, but the government holds total power over its use and disposal."

—Ayn Rand Lexicon

Where do we see fascism today?

Here, locals are pushed out at the expense of new development and new prospective residents. Urban vs Rural. Current vs former. There are many forms of kleptocracy here operating under the pretence of private property and opportunities.

Town planning, zoning laws, by laws, etc, regulate use of land (crown and private) so severely that it runs like sim-city or a nursing home. The citizen/property-owner ultimately has limited to no say, if the government and or a mega-corp wants to develop on your home. Taxation (direct and indirect) and on cars is so high that in the 8yrs (straight line depreciation rate) it's possible to buy a new car (maybe multiple) e.g. Kia Picanto S manual - $14,390 MSRP. It's extortion. Usage too is limited. i.e. "Private" vs "commercial", which is problematic if/when auditing occurs or insurance claims occur. We're oppressed by both groups; "Church" also.

And if you starve here, one cannot by law enter crown land or private land to camp, collect fruit or animals, without a permit. Not even a national forrest, unless zoning allows. Unlike Europe, here there is no historic concept of freedom to roam, or "everyman's right". It's not our land, but "Crown land" granted. This is the view. Our mobility, mode of living, occupation, use of time (work noise and recreational noise), everything, is under control. At the expense of Constitutional rights for the citizen, under the Queen as Sovereign. The original declaration of "terra nullius" as justification to steal another's land is used now against the colonisers, backfiring. -- Similar in all British and Commonwealth nations. Government/parliament is overrun with dishonourable lackeys and thieves.

SMH, Private land to be seized for housing

911 and the US National Security Act 2002 lead to our Surveillance Devices Act 2004.

Law Enforcement Act 2002 turned this country into a police state. Hence "fascist" or "draconian".

Friendly uniformed civil servants turned gestapo: Aggressive, para-military gear, semi-armoured, weaponised, etc. Which is reflected in their demeanour. It's not uncommon to see people strip searched in public (in full view of pedestrians), pants down, shoes off, etc. e.g. at train stations, outside shopping malls. Plus the "
Right to inspect seized documents" which violates privacy and intellectual property.

Even the Australian Broadcasting Commission (government funded public news service) was raided in 2019. i.e. government on government. Lead by a Prime Minister with a tyrannical streak.

One can no longer live in peace.

One cannot walk/bicycle/motorcycle/car/truck/plane without interference for suspicion of "security" breach. Trip to the shops, police. Night photography, police. Motorcycle ride, police. Camping trip, police.

People surrender defending their rights (as in rightful behaviour) seeing it pointless to justify oneself to a robot fine dispenser. They literally work on quotas, regardless of what is legal/right/moral/ethical/reasonable/just.

"The documents, obtained by the NSW Greens under Freedom of Information laws, reveal the NSW Police Force set a quota of 241,632 searches, including strip searches, for the 2019 financial year. ...figures backed anecdotal reports of people, especially teenagers, being searched for no apparent reason. " ABC, 'Abuse of human rights': NSW Police search quota revealed

Instead then, people avert their eyes, keep to themselves, slightly terrified, mildly anxious and paranoid, trusting/wishing/hoping they pass freely with interruption. But those in grey areas (at possible risk of violation, perceived or actual) become either totally compliant with the Gestapo state (as in Nazi Germany) or hyper-vigilant in opposition of it. Both ways only antagonises the state, creating a greater divide between civilian and civil servant. Both forgetting that the state exists to serve the people.

Law Enforcement Act 2002

PART 4 - SEARCH AND SEIZURE POWERS WITHOUT WARRANT
Note

Division 1 - General personal search and seizure powers

20. Relevant offences
21. Power to search persons and seize and detain things without warrant
21A. Ancillary power to search persons
22. Power to seize and detain dangerous articles on premises
23. Power to search persons for dangerous implements without warrant in public places and schools

Division 5 - Vehicle stop, entry, search and roadblock powers

35. Relevant offences
36. Power to search vehicles and seize things without warrant
36A. Power to stop vehicles
37. Powers to stop vehicles and erect roadblocks
38. Power to give reasonable directions
39. Failure to comply with directions
40. Duration and form of roadblock authorisation
41. Record of roadblock authorisation

Division 6 - Vessel and aircraft entry and search powers

42. Power to search vessels and aircraft and seize things without warrant
43. Power to board vessels
44. Power to search aircraft for safety reasons
45. Search powers relating to prohibited plants and prohibited drugs

Division 7 - Additional search and seizure powers in relation to things used to interfere with business or undertaking

45A. Things to which Division applies
45B. Power to search for and seize things without warrant
45C. Forfeiture of things seized

PART 8 - POWERS RELATING TO ARREST
Note

99. Power of police officers to arrest without warrant

Division 2 - Other property in police custody

215. Definitions
216. Application to property
217. Right to inspect seized documents

And this is being discussed,

Surveillance Legislation Amendment (Identify and Disrupt) Bill 2020

"The Australian government has new laws on the books to hack your computer, your online accounts, and just about any piece of technology and networks you come into contact with. It can happen without a warrant and without you ever knowing. ...There may be any privacy implications “to the extent known.” The execution of the warrant is likely to cause a person to “suffer a temporary loss of: money, digital currency, or property (other than data). ... There was an international uproar when the Australian government passed the Assistance and Access Act, also known as TOLA. Introduced in 2018, it contains some of the broadest powers for law enforcement to intercept and monitor encrypted communications. Its only international parallel is the UK’s equally infamous Investigatory Powers Act, which is under ongoing challenges in the UK Courts over its infringement on privacy — an avenue for challenge that remains unavailable to Australians where the right to privacy continues to be ignored by the federal government (and thus out of reach for such court challenges)." Digital Rights Watch, Australia's new mass surveillance mandate - Digital Rights Watch

 

[philadelphos]

Fascism is an ultranationalist, authoritarian political philosophy. It combines elements of nationalism, militarism, economic self-sufficiency, and totalitarianism. It opposes communism, socialism, pluralism, individual rights and equality, and democratic government.

Fascism places the importance of the nation above all else. The unity of the national community is prioritized above the rights of individuals. This leads to an intense interest in defining which groups belong or do not belong to the national body. Fascism is characterized by:

• strident, often exclusionary nationalism
• fixation with national decline (real or perceived) and threats to the existence of the national community
• embrace of paramilitarism

In fascist states, violence is accepted—even celebrated—if it serves or advances the national community. For fascists, violence often has a redemptive or purifying quality.

Fascism rejects the practices of representative or liberal democratic government. It holds that these practices interfere with the expression of the national will. Instead, fascist governments are one-party states led by an authoritarian leader who claims to embody the national will. Fascists define the national will as advancing the interests of the national community. This usually means:

• protecting or elevating the rights of the national community above the rights of those seen as alien
• removing obstacles to national unity and suppressing those seen as challenging it
• expanding the size and influence of the national state
• often, also seeking to expand territory through armed conflict

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Encyclopaedia, Fascism

Internationally, "10 countries are seen to qualify (at least for certain time periods) as two-and-a-half-party systems: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and the United Kingdom."

However, "A one-party predominant system is where the ‘typical’ result is for a given party (indeed the same party) to have at least 51 percent of the seats and
a seat ratio vis-à-vis the second party (SR1:2) of at least 1.8. ...
... (Where) a one-party predominant system, (is) where the effective number of parties (ENP) is clearly less than two". Which is the case here and in many other countries.

Alan Siaroff, Two-and-a-half-party systems and the comparative role of the 'half'
https://library.fes.de/libalt/journals/swetsfulltext/17125103.pdf

It's been criticised before that this is a one-party government, effectively 2 right wing (centre-right wing) parties.

The 2016 Federal Election, a double dissolution election, revealed that. That parties can and will intermix to make up seats. The Coalition leading by a one-seat majority in the Lower House. Meaning they have comprisable beliefs and or no actual contrary/firm beliefs. Meaning parliament debates (and votes for bills) are moot. A charade. A mockery.

Nick Feik, The Liberal Party: a rolling fiasco

The Liberal–National Coalition, currently led by Scott Morrison, is moored to a set of ideas largely left behind by the general public. Most Australians believe in a social-democratic compact in which governments deliver decent services and infrastructure. Multiculturalism, environmentalism, secularism, public broadcasting, workers’ rights, and regulation to prevent corporate and government corruption – these are now baked into society. Wherever possible, though, Liberals fight them. In most cases they are joined by their Coalition partners.

The public isn’t crying out for corporate tax cuts. On the contrary, it wants more funding for health, education and a welfare safety net. Lower power prices? They’re an issue of public concern, but so too is the truly grave issue of climate change. The Coalition has done nothing to address either. However, many of its MPs believe in freedom of expression for religious organisations and racists, and even support such motions in parliament.

... What seems so hard for Liberal politicians and supporters to acknowledge is that it’s the culture of the Liberal Party – so masculine, white, and uninterested in listening to scientists or policy experts, to young people, to women – that has created the current rolling fiasco. Bullying is one index of this. Even in the wake of allegations by Julia Banks, Julie Bishop, Ann Sudmalis, Lucy Gichuhi and others, the party has done nothing to address its “women problem”. It will have even less female representation going into the next election. Candidates in the Liberal Party are selected according to merit? By what standard, though? They can’t even say why Scott Morrison is the prime minister. And yet, he’s exactly what they want: a leader who enacts their brand of paternal condescension while sticking to the same narrow politics.

Australia doesn’t have a voting system that rewards a hyper-partisan base. Only idiots and zealots try to foster one for major parties here, because the mainstream, unsurprisingly, still tends to the political centre.

"When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn." (Pro 29:2)

 

[Aussie Pete]

I really need to read this thread because I've always had trouble completely understanding Fascism, Socialism and Communism. I know they are bad/wrong and take away people's rights, but other than that I don't fully understand the terms. I tried to look the terms up once but couldn't get a clear answer online.

I suggest that you look at this link. It's by an historian who specialises in the early to mid 20th century.

 

[Skye1300]

I suggest that you look at this link. It's by an historian who specialises in the early to mid 20th century.

Thanks! I sure will.

 

[Thomas White]

As I understand it, Fascism is:

totalitarian

statist

corporatist

orders and subjects everything in the state, to the good of the state

the sole source of all rights and laws, and of everything else in the Reich

is utilitarian

acknowledges no end beyond or above itself

acknowledges no morality or Good beyond or above itself

aspires, at least on the face of it, to be populist, to the extent of requiring the willing compliance of all its subjects

Tolerates no opposition that it cannot and does not control

Will not tolerate any authority outside its power to control - any such authority, is therefore tolerable only if tamed.

Since the State is All, there can be nothing secret from it - so the family can be spied on for the State by family members

“Re-education” is desirable, good, necessary; for people exist only for the State - and since the State is all; there are no “private” thoughts: everything without exception must be the State’s, and must conform to its will

has as its living symbol the Great Leader, who is the supreme authorised exponent of its ideology

is apt to be militaristic or expansionist

demonises “unwanted” populations, since the Omnipotent State needs an Enemy to hate, torment, humiliate, and overcome.

Everything is owed to the State, everything is provided by it, nothing is beyond its reach. The Good, is whatever the State wills. There is, and can be, no higher loyalty than loyalty to the State. It is, in principle, the whole of reality, and the measure of what is real. If it says X is not X but Y - then it is Y.

The State, ruled by the Great Leader through the Party and its organs, is always totally right: it is incapable of being wrong - even when it “changes its mind”.

IMO, Nazism was a near-perfect example of Fascism. Communist China, too.

Fascism is a sort of parody-Church.

Many aspects of what you described are not elements of fascism, but elements of communism.

 

[J_B_]

I like Mr. Beat's discussion of the word.

He starts with a brief survey of all the vagaries and conflicting definitions. The root problem with the way most people try to define the word is that they want to place it on the left-right spectrum (an idea that has long been shown problematic. See the Nolan Chart. The second problem is dealing with the fact that Mussolini was a Socialist-Fascist while Hitler was a Nationalist-Fascist who largely opposed socialism and then became Mussolini's ally. How did that happen? The final problem is that fascism is assumed to be evil, and is therefore most often used as a pejorative for people we don't like. This means people have to reject all the ideas fascists supported even if some of those ideas show insight.

What's Mr. Beat's bottom line definition? Fascism's basic tenet is that the group is the basic political unit, and therefore the group is more important than the individual.

Once you understand that, you can see what that can lead to. For fascists it then follows that the individual can be required to make sacrifices for the group. Conformity is important. Strong central governments are important. You can also see how there can be socialist fascists on the left and nationalist fascists on the right. etc. etc.