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vajradhara

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Namaste,


evil doesn't exist except as the projection of a moral value onto an ontologically neutral object.

some may propose that evil is the opposite of good, the other side of the coin... and without evil, there could be no good... and without good, there could be no evil.

welcome to the forum :)
 
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Van Arsdale

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Dictionary.com

e·vil, e·vil·er, e·vil·est

Morally bad or wrong; wicked, Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful, Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous; Bad or blameworthy by report; Characterized by anger or spite; malicious; An evil force, power, or personification. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction...

1 John2:
4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:
8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Apologetic_Warrior said:
What is evil? Is evil compatible with the materialism/naturalism worldview? :rolleyes:

:idea: Is evil an absence of good?

This depends on what you mean by "evil". If you mean some spiritual being or force that compells people to do evil deeds ("Satan made me do it"), then this idea is incompatible with metaphysical naturalism. However, evil can be conceived of in two distinct and complementary ways:

1) Evil, for you, is anything that threatens your life and your highest and healthiest values. Natural disasters, terrorists, totalitarian goverments, etc can be evils for you, since they threaten your pursuit of values tied to your flourishing. What is good for you helps you to live and grow in a manner appropriate to your nature, and what is bad (evil) for you interferes with this.

2) Evil, in the moral sense, is the result of ideas and/or motivations that lead one to pursue unhealthy values in life. Since we are born unwise and impulsive, we need to learn how to be good people, and to develop good moral character. I suppose evil in this sense is an absence of good, but not in the sense of these being substances, but rather different ways of functioning.
 
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Thank you for the response, I would like to ask a few questions and hopefully make a couple of valid points in the process...

Eudaimonist said:
This depends on what you mean by "evil". If you mean some spiritual being or force that compells people to do evil deeds ("Satan made me do it"), then this idea is incompatible with metaphysical naturalism. However, evil can be conceived of in two distinct and complementary ways:
How is an evil spiritual being (Satan) incompaible with metaphysical naturalism? By presupposition?

Eudaimonist said:
1) Evil, for you, is anything that threatens your life and your highest and healthiest values. Natural disasters, terrorists, totalitarian goverments, etc can be evils for you, since they threaten your pursuit of values tied to your flourishing. What is good for you helps you to live and grow in a manner appropriate to your nature, and what is bad (evil) for you interferes with this.
:confused: By that defintion common colds are evil, AND rescuing a baby from a house on fire is evil because in order to do that one must risk their life. Secondly, if evil is relative, how can you define what is evil for me? By what standard, compared to what?

Eudaimonist said:
2) Evil, in the moral sense, is the result of ideas and/or motivations that lead one to pursue unhealthy values in life. Since we are born unwise and impulsive, we need to learn how to be good people, and to develop good moral character. I suppose evil in this sense is an absence of good, but not in the sense of these being substances, but rather different ways of functioning.
Hmm...unhealthy values, that is a rather broad statement. Are health, wealth, and power the 'healthy' values you have in mind? How do we develop a good moral character? What if a person is born with a disease, in poverty, and invisible to society? How is that person to develop a good moral character? I agree that evil isn't a physical substance. If one is to develop a good moral character, what will be their moral compass? From where will the sense of duty, the 'ought' and 'ought not' in behavior (words, deeds, and I would say thoughts) come from?
 
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Eudaimonist

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Apologetic_Warrior said:
How is an evil spiritual being (Satan) incompaible with metaphysical naturalism? By presupposition?


By definition.

Unless I'm mistaken, Christians view Satan as "supernatural". The supernatural is incompatible with a naturalistic metaphysics by definition.

By that defintion common colds are evil, AND rescuing a baby from a house on fire is evil because in order to do that one must risk their life.

I understand how you would think that. This implication was unintentional, and only due to my desire to give a briefly worded answer. (I can give book references if you'd like a properly detailed answer.) I'm not supporting an egoism so "narrow" that only what exists in the confines of your skin has any value for you. Since rescuing the baby (most especially if it is your baby) may be a very high value for you, as dear as your life is for you (actually, the baby would be a great part of your life), taking great personal risks may very well be the right thing to do. Attempting to rescue the baby would be heroically fighting an evil.

Secondly, if evil is relative, how can you define what is evil for me? By what standard, compared to what?

Where did I say that evil is relative? It isn't. Evil is relational -- what is evil is evil for someone -- but it is not something whimsically decided upon. The standard is the objective set of requirements of human life and growth, and all that is entailed by this.

Are health, wealth, and power the 'healthy' values you have in mind?

Why would you think this? :scratch:

They are all values, though really more as means to an end. Health, for the ability to act effectively; wealth, as a reward for rationality, productive effort, and good character; and power only as a means to maintaining a free society in which everyone may flourish.

How do we develop a good moral character?

Through learning from the wise, emulating good role models, having a sincere desire to be good, and lots and lots of practice.

What if a person is born with a disease, in poverty, and invisible to society? How is that person to develop a good moral character?

It might be very difficult or impossible. I won't argue that life is fair.

If one is to develop a good moral character, what will be their moral compass?

A proper ethical philosophy and moral code, and close attentiveness to what produces good results, and what doesn't, in the lives of others and one's own. I think that participation in a moral community may help as well, though this isn't an absolute requirement. Mine is the Fellowship of Reason.

From where will the sense of duty, the 'ought' and 'ought not' in behavior (words, deeds, and I would say thoughts) come from?

I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are asking how they arise, they typically come first from others in childhood (e.g. parents, relatives, and teachers), may also come from inspirational novels and art, but in adulthood they may also come from within once ethics is grasped more fully.
 
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CanD

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What is Evil?



Evil (adj)1. Profoundly immoral and malevolent. Embodying or associated with the forces of the devil. Harmful or tending to harm.
2. Extremely unpleasant (such as an evil smell). Profound wickedness and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force. Something harmful or undesirable: social evils. - Concise Oxford Dictionary 10th Ed. 1999

1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED (an evil impulse) b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct (a man of evil reputation)

2 a archaic : INFERIOR b : causing discomfort or repulsion : OFFENSIVE (an evil odor) c : DISAGREEABLE (woke late and in an evil temper)
3 a : causing harm : PERNICIOUS (the evil institution of slavery) b : marked by misfortune : UNLUCKY - Merriam-Webster Online

The Bible illustrates that evil is the opposite (and absense) of good. From the term devil, one gets the word evil. It has broad meanings in the natural as well as the supernatural, but originated in Lucifer when he coveted God's position by wanting to be God. Since Lucifer was the opposite to God (who is good), he was thrown out of Heaven and in all his hatred, Lucifer the once shining bright star, became Satan, fallen archangel and king of the demons.

He was determined to take as many human souls with him to Hell, which he knew would be his final resting place. To do this, he needed to make people unworthy in the eyes of God and encouraged humans to sin or commit evil acts. Therefore evil is a malevolent force stemming from Satan that began impacting human lives not long after we were created.

The term evil these days tends to refer to an extremely bad act (such as abusing a child, or murder). Up until approximately 1700AD, any ill thought or misdeed (sin) was deemed evil or demon inspired.
Since psychology (study of the mind) has become more popular, the reality of evil has been downplayed into a concept that is little more than a religious superstition or a way of controlling people's actions. This couldn't be more further from the truth, because the ultimate tool that Satan can use to encourage us to continue in our evil ways is by making us believe that it's all in the mind.

Approximately 200 years ago, mental illness was deemed a sign of demon possession or demonic affliction. Interestingly enough, while we give up our ancestral beliefs of good and evil, our minds seem to be giving up on us. There are more cases of psychological disturbance now than there ever has been and because humans are meant to be in touch with God, severing this link is psychologically damaging. In New Zealand alone statistics report that 1 in 5 people will have a mental illness*. If one takes a good look around this little nation, they will see that we are far from God and closer to the devil.

In summary of this introduction, you should now know that evil is a malevolent force influenced largely by Satan. It blocks off immediate contact we have with God and therefore it not only destroys us morally, but psychologically as well. Lack of belief in a so-called 'superstitious concept' is now negatively impacting the lives of many, yet few have made the connection.



-copyright 2003 (C&D)
 
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Pinecone

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In Mere Christianity CS Lewis makes the best explanation I've yet heard for evil. I'm going to do a terrible job of summing it up in a sentance: Evil is a twisting of good. Go and read Mere Christianity if you havn't already. It is easily one of THE best books I've ever read.
 
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pace

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In Lars Fr H Svendsen's Philosophy of Evil, he divides evil in: 1. Instrumental Evil, following up from I. Kant, where one does evil to others because of self. 2. Ideological Evil, where one sacrifices good things for some higher cause. 3. Stupid Evil, where one dumbfoundly, without really thinking of what one do, or without responsiblity just do evil, stops to think, or simply stupid enough to not realize, that as free human beings we are responsible for these actions.
In stupid evil, he also puts the evil one do when one excuses one's action that: "Everyone else does it"(communion), or: "He told me to"(authoritative)
He summarizes that noone is beyond evil, Given in certain situations ordinary people is able to do the most horrific things, That very most people understands or feel rather easily what evil is, and thus that it's imperative we go from(or stop wasting away time on) a state where we ask "What is evil?"(the theodicèes), instead: "Why do we do Evil?"; because it's a huge practical and political issue, we need to do something about it.
 
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Lillithspeak

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Evil is not an entity in and of itself-surely most of us have moved beyond the need to believe in a devil so we'll all be good?

Evil is an act done by a human being to harm/hurt others for the pleasure or financial reward of doing so.

Evil: Sending troops into battle for your own self-aggrandisement, rather than to protect the lives of innocents.

Evil: Ignoring the rivers of blood that flow across the lands of repressive regimes as long as it allows the river of money to flow towards you.

Evil: Rapists, child-molesters, serial killers

Evil: those who would slaughter the well being of all of humanity such as: corporate thiefs, environmental rapists-including those who refuse to reduce their use of resources

Evil: those who slaughter animals (especially to the point of extinction) for riches, sexual potions, or the pleasure of hunting and killing a creature for "sport"

Evil: Urging others to hate people who are: gay, lesbian, transgendered, black, brown, red, or whatever and then denying that your teachings get people hurt and killed over and over and over again.

Hope this helps you out defining Evil in the world.
 
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Evil is a perception. Usually it is something we see as going against out moral standards.

Ex. John sees a man shoot another man. Since John feels that killing is 'wrong' that person is committing evil in John's eyes.

However, since it is only a perception, the thought of it is not universal.

Ex. Sam sees the man shoot the other man. Sam sees it as good. Since that man was just another worthless human.

So really when you ask what evil 'is' you ask what people 'see' evil as.
Since there is no real evil. Only neutrality.
 
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aragorn

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It is the strangest thing about humanity that we have these words in our vocabulary, that obviously really means something, and yet we can argue forever about what they mean. We hold the existence of good and evil to be a matter of the highest importance, and act as if we are sure we know what they mean, but ask us to explain it, and we fumble around incoherently.

One of the problems of talking about the meaning of words, is that you have to use more words to explain meanings, and this can kind of lead to an infinite regress.

No-one would consider arguing about the meaning of the word "chair" or of "red" or of "wet".

We learn how to use these words as children, and everyone uses them in the same way, so their meaning is uncontroversial, but with evil, well everyone can identify it as meaning something that is bad for humanity, that ought to be rejected, but cannot agree what things are actually referred to by the word. And agreeing that evil means something bad for humanity, and ought to be rejected and got rid of, doesn't get us much further. We all think we know what we mean by "ought" but do we? Explanation stops at this point.
ought = what we are obliged to do? no, because we aren't obliged to do what we ought, we're only morally obliged: Morally obliged? well what does morally mean etc. etc.

So in a sense, there is some merit in the kind of answer that just says,
"Evil is the opposite of Good" or "Evil is against God. Period." OK it doesn't get you very far - you could even go so far as to say it's totally uninformative, but you could equally well say, "ask a silly question, get a silly answer."

But on the other hand, how can the question "what is evil?" so important in these evil times, be a silly question? And how on earth should one try to answer it?
My contention is that in the case of a word whose meaning is unclear or disputed, the only way to answer the question is to speculate about the origin of the word. Once upon a time, there was a man or a woman, who used the words good and evil in a moral sense, for the first time. The person who first gave these words moral force, is in a sense their owner. The only alternative really is to side with the relativists and conclude that moral words have no real meaning, they're just expressions of approval, and rhetorical devices. I find the relativist alternative unpalatable and just plain wrong, and even philosophical relativists find it unlivable.

Of course, maybe you should answer the question straightforwardly by listing all the things that are evil, but that's not very elegant. More elegant is to find a plausible account of the origin of the word, leading to a fuller understanding, and from that deduce what is correctly referred to by the word evil.

In my next post, (just following) I will try to tell a story about moral language. For my account to make sense, you have to understand that I take for granted that it is true that there is a kind of energy common to all living things,(but) known to Bergson as elan vital, to Reich as orgone, and to Rupert Sheldrake as the morphogenetic field. If this sounds like a big assumption to make in such a serious discussion then I will add, I don't see it myself, but I have from time to time, Some people see it all the time, and I believe most women feel it naturally, hence expressions, like, "he makes my skin crawl" Coming back to life is really all about learning to recognise, feel and respond to life. This assumption is not in any way unchristian.
Christianity distinguishes between life and non-life, and so of course do ordinary people. Interestingly, though, materialist atheistic science does not and cannot distinguish between life and non-life. It also militantly denies the existence of the life force, and suppresses all scientific dissenters with an efficiency of which the inquisition would be proud.
 
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