What is considered as " Moderate Christians?"

[Izdaari Eristikon]

If you're a "Young-Earth" Creationist, you're similar to me.

If you're an "Old-Earth" Creationist, you're similar to Izdaari.

Since my little town of 8000 has 2 or 3 OC churches, I really should get around to visiting one someday. For the most part, I'm stuck between Pentecostal and Charismatic, and prefer a contemporary, not-a-one-man-show worship format. However, I do also enjoy a more formal, liturgical service every so often.

And we're alike in that too: I'm also somewhere between Pentecostal and Charismatic (Pentecostal by church membership, Charismatic or even Post-Charismatic by doctrine). I prefer contemporary worship services, but I also enjoy a good liturgy now and then, most often at my local Episcopal cathedral (St. Mark's in Seattle). There's a small Greek Orthodox church near me, one that has about 50% converts, so they speak English. I keep meaning to go check it out.

 

[NorrinRadd]

And we're alike in that too: I'm also somewhere between Pentecostal and Charismatic (Pentecostal by church membership, Charismatic or even Post-Charismatic by doctrine). I prefer contemporary worship services, but I also enjoy a good liturgy now and then, most often at my local Episcopal cathedral (St. Mark's in Seattle). There's a small Greek Orthodox church near me, one that has about 50% converts, so they speak English. I keep meaning to go check it out.

Makes me go to realize there is no Episcopal church in my town. I think the nearest one is about 10 miles away. All sorts of traditions -- RC, OC, Protestant, liturgical, contemporary, credal, non-credal, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Evangelical -- and in most cases several of each type, but no Anglican/Episcopal.

 

[jamescarvin]

Originally Posted by Izdaari

And we're alike in that too: I'm also somewhere between Pentecostal and Charismatic (Pentecostal by church membership, Charismatic or even Post-Charismatic by doctrine). I prefer contemporary worship services, but I also enjoy a good liturgy now and then, most often at my local Episcopal cathedral (St. Mark's in Seattle). There's a small Greek Orthodox church near me, one that has about 50% converts, so they speak English. I keep meaning to go check it out.
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Makes me go to realize there is no Episcopal church in my town. I think the nearest one is about 10 miles away. All sorts of traditions -- RC, OC, Protestant, liturgical, contemporary, credal, non-credal, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Evangelical -- and in most cases several of each type, but no Anglican/Episcopal.

Wow, every time I mention I'm Orthodox and also charismatic people give me a funny look. It gets lonely. The "renewal" movement seems to have two places - one in Destin, Florida, a great place to visit as they have a twenty room retreat house right on the sugar white beaches of a great resort town (check for hurricanes first). The other is in Romania. Look up Christ's Army. Maybe a bit far. The renewal center in Destin can be read about at http://stsymeon.org . Their ministry has struggled because evangelicals and charismatics are not welcome in mainstream Orthodoxy but people still contribute to it from all over the world.

Most Orthodox look down on charismatics. So don't be too vocal about it if you attend or visit. Also even if 50% are converts to that Greek Orthodox Church nearby my suggestion is look for an OCA or Antiochian parish if you are thinking of visiting anything Orthodox, unless, of course, your Greek is fluent or you desire to learn it.

It is said that Orthodoxy is inherently charismatic but what is meant by that may not be what you have in mind. If you like a service that is all prayer and worship you may just feel that's right on. If you are turned off by repetition the antiphons may bother you. And if you can't handle addressing prayers to (with) the Theotokos and the saints it may not be for you either. But you won't find a more powerful eucharistic service anywhere else. The spoon feeding from the one cup is something I wish the Anglicans, RCs and other eucharistic churches would do. You will definitely feel you are missing something when visiting any church afterwards when it comes to the communion service, even the highest ones.

As for the repetition, it is nothing like a rosary. It is simply the same set of prayers offered three times in three distinct parts of the liturgy. And it is the same set of prayers every liturgy, though they do have an eight week cycle and special prayers addressing the saint of the day, so there is some variety week to week.

If you are trying to learn the Greek the repetition will actually make it easier.

About 50% of Orthodox Christians are caught up in a very sectarian attitude. I doubt, since this is a forum for bridgebuilders/moderates, that you would fall into that. But the idea is that if you are not an Orthodox Christian then you are outside the body of Christ. The place where this thought is most prevalent is the monasteries. The RCC view of ecclesiology is more open ended, as is the Anglican. I don't go for papal supremacy so I've looked seriously at the Episcopal Church as an alternative to Orthodoxy on account of its close mindedness with respect to the body of Christ.

When I do that I wind up with an anything-goes verses Traditionalist controversy - a church on the verge of schizm on account of the claim by some bishops that homosexual acts are not sin and belief in the resurrection is outdated. So traditionalist Anglicans are turning to the RCC and to Orthodoxy.

When they do that, of course, the balance shifts left and they increase the tendency by their absence.

Me, I've decided to just hang out here on this fence with a megaphone and try to be a voice of reason, not that anybody's listening.

 

[Ygeianism]

Personally, I think a "moderate" in any religious group is someone who doesn't seek to forcefully impose their religion on people. Even people who actively witness and evangelize shouldn't be considered extremists since they aren't using coercion.

 

[jamescarvin]

Personally, I think a "moderate" in any religious group is someone who doesn't seek to forcefully impose their religion on people. Even people who actively witness and evangelize shouldn't be considered extremists since they aren't using coercion.

I'm not so sure that is a definition of a moderate as it is a person who is tolerant. Tolerant people come in every extreme. Sectarians will let you have your own religion, but judge you, so they also can be tolerant.

Intolerance involves imposition and force, which is most often expressed as discrimination. If you can say that an evangelical does not use coercion that is one thing. If you can say that they don't discriminate that is another. When they tell you that if so and so doesn't believe that Jesus is the Christ and that he died for your sin so therefore they are not in the body of Christ, that is a judgment, which is a form of sectarianism.

The only difference between that type of sectarianism and Orthodox Christian sectarianism is that the Orhtodox Christian places the dividing line into a more narrow section of the world population, those Christians who believe as they do.

A moderate is probably better defined as a person who listens to opposing arguments and then presents both sides. But there are also moderates that simply compromise and take middle positions.

This forum is called "bridge-builders" mostly on account of this "presents-both-sides" type of moderate, I think, because those who can listen to two opposing sides of an argument are capable of being peacemakers and resolving issues, healing divisions. But the other type uses this forum too.

Those who compromise make peace by another means, or are simply setting their own opinion in the middle. These also are called moderates, and they are a very different kind of person even if their motives are sometimes the same. It would be convenient if we had a different word to describe these two very different types of moderates.

Many people who desire peace simply avoid controversy. They dodge battles. Bridge builders tend to be at the heart of a battle seeking to actually resolve a conflict.

There is, of course, a time when it makes good sense not to attempt to build a bridge. You've got to count the cost before going to battle. Avoidance may be the better action.