What is Christian Philosophy and for what purpose does it serve?

[Agra man]

It sounds like you're friend has gotten into something that is potentially dangerous....

Honestly, I don't know what you should do, especially if you're friend has fallen under a cult leaders spell...

But there's some pretty big warning signs there. Red flags galore.

Yeah we were talking about how we noth have brain damage but God has often used such people even with those worse in mind than reasonably sane people I mean he used a donkey once to speak.

But then he said this
I strongly feel that the mind is also where all your energy flows from, but more importantly your shield of protection, which in my view is also a shield of energy, that circles around your body, protecting you from negative spirits or unclean spirits.

It's kinda like our mother earth, in the middle is its core (similar to a mind its flows energy around its body) protecting its self from all sorts of energies that could destroy it, since we came from earth it would also make sense that we do share this common factor

 

[Agra man]

Your philosophy then?

I see what you did there well done

 

[Mark Quayle]

When I was talking about shutting people down I didn't mean in that way I am not one who appreciates people who shut others down in that regard. My point was that he knew the truth the whole truth not some of it not most of it all of it and thus there were no holes to poke in his argument they had nothing they could say because they knew he would just shut down everything they tried to say.

It isn't about the shutting down part it is about knowing the truth so well that they couldn't find any flaws. Sure one could use scripture to counter what Jesus said but trying to debate the God of the universe you won't last long.

And I in no way am saying we shouldn't study the word what I am saying is that we need to take a different approach. Now as far as your stance on obtaining all truth well is that what he said? He said that he would lead us to all truths nothing else he didn't give any limitations no conditions he said he woul and he said all and we have access to the source we have the holy spirit we have the word of God and we have each other how much more of an advantage do we need?

Granted we have the source, but the day you tell me you have it all figured out, or even any of it completely understood, is the day I'll quit listening to you.

 

[Agra man]

Granted we have the source, but the day you tell me you have it all figured out, or even any of it completely understood, is the day I'll quit listening to you.

Obviously I am not going to have the whole truth like the human mind can't even begin to fathom the depth of God. He said that he would lead us to all truths sure we may not have the truth that the human mind can't fathom but we can have enough of it to be able togive a definitive answer to any question. I mean I don't know about you if if he calls us to seek the truth and he says that the holy spirit would lead us to all truths i'm not going to be the one to call him a liar if he says it that is how it is.

As far as I can tellevery scripture that promises us that we can ask anything of him that he gives generously to those who show the hunger for that if you seek you find ask and it will be given ect. I never saw any conditions everyone places on things we add what we think instead of taking him at his word.

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing but the glory of kings to search a matter out, everyone has theor own take on the word their own views their own interpretation the enemy knows better than anyone to win a war you divide confuse and conquer

So lets say the topic of election that one is a very heated topic and I have seen the bloodshed it can cause among the debating believers each side able to give verse after verse yet no one can come to a conclusion each person thinks they know the truth and the argument can go oon and on verse after verse.

Does this seem like truth to you?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Obviously I am not going to have the whole truth like the human mind can't even begin to fathom the depth of God. He said that he would lead us to all truths sure we may not have the truth that the human mind can't fathom but we can have enough of it to be able togive a definitive answer to any question. I mean I don't know about you if if he calls us to seek the truth and he says that the holy spirit would lead us to all truths i'm not going to be the one to call him a liar if he says it that is how it is.

As far as I can tellevery scripture that promises us that we can ask anything of him that he gives generously to those who show the hunger for that if you seek you find ask and it will be given ect. I never saw any conditions everyone places on things we add what we think instead of taking him at his word.

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing but the glory of kings to search a matter out, everyone has theor own take on the word their own views their own interpretation the enemy knows better than anyone to win a war you divide confuse and conquer

So lets say the topic of election that one is a very heated topic and I have seen the bloodshed it can cause among the debating believers each side able to give verse after verse yet no one can come to a conclusion each person thinks they know the truth and the argument can go oon and on verse after verse.

Does this seem like truth to you?

"Does this seem like truth to you?"

Ha! Some of it does, yes.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hello I am agra man I came across this site and saw that it had this section on Christian Philosophy. To be honest I have heard of it but never really got into what it is so I am niave in this area. And a friend of mine well we got intoan argument because he was saying some really odd things calling it philosophy things about mother earth using the mind to sync to the spirit even going so far as to explain how mother earth has some kind of life energy that using the mind with the spirit creates an aura of protection and just odd stuff he said there was a marriage with the angels and the church before creation and that divorce was in heaven with us and them

I love talking with him about the things of God we have a blast but the things he was saying here well he didn't take to well to me warning him about all this stuff even though there was absolutely no evidence of what he said what so ever he just saw it as truth and saw me as being petty and attacking him.

I tried first before even confronting him to understand what he meant about it being philosophy he said it is basically adding to an already established thing. Ok for studying and research looking at things from a different perspective maybe I can be on board with that but to say it as fact though well I wasn't having that.

But I wondered if perhaps the argument could have gone different if I had understood what Christian Philosophy is so what is it exactly what the reason to study it and what purpose does it serve?

A good example of Christian philosophy is when a pastor is talking about some lofty concept from the pulpit, and the question emerges in someone's mind: "How do I apply this scripture verse in reality?"

Similar questions keep piling up until there are only questions, and the pastor really isn't helpful.

What makes it Christian philosophy, relying on God is necessary for the task.

 

[dms1972]

Christians throughout the years have held a range of attitudes towards philosophy, from Tertullian who said "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?" Others like Augustine where open to incorporating some insights from Plato into their theology. Karl Barth was more negative declaring that what is philosophical is not christian, and what is christian is not philosophical.

Donald Bloesch has a chapter on Faith and Philosophy in his Theology of Word and Spirit (can be read online at Archive.org)

Why (and How) Christians Should Study Philosophy

C. S. Lewis was right: “Good philosophy must exist, if for no other reason, because bad philosophy must be answered.”

www.thegospelcoalition.org

This book also came up in a search

What Has Athens to Do with Jerusalem?

The debate about evolution and creationism is striking evidence of the tensions between biblical and philosophical-scientific explanations of the origins of the universe. For most of the past twenty centuries, ...

www.press.umich.edu

 

[public hermit]

Tertullian who said "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?

Tertullian's rhetoric on this issue is great, but he also employed methods, language, and concepts that came from philosophy's influence on him. And, those who were more open regarding their use of philosophical tools and concepts made a clear distinction between the philosophies of their day and their faith in Christ, that the latter was the priority, including Origen.

Poor Origen. In his own day, he was so beloved. People said when he preached the Word came alive. The only person who didn't like him was one jealous bishop in Alexandria. Lol. The council a few hundred years later that condemned Origenism and the circumstance surrounding it are altogether suspect, grain of salt I say. He should be read on his own merits, I think. He is by no doubt one of the earliest systematic thinkers and one of the faith's greatest exegetes. I say that admitting he had some ideas that were out there.

Karl Barth was more negative declaring that what is philosophical is not christian, and what is christian is not philosophical

I was told a story, perhaps apocryphal, about Barth's early lectures on Schleiermacher. He gave the lectures with a bust of Schleiermacher on the desk; Barth was a severe critic of Schleiermacher's systematic theology. At any rate, at the end of the series, after he had shown all the flaws in S's system, he smashed the bust into pieces. I don't know what that says about Barth, but that would have been entertaining to see.

 

[Agra man]

I have to admit you all are more well informed than what I am used to. Usually all I get is maybe some scripture and a explaination but mostly just arguments back and forths no real content to discuss but this is different this barth guy for instance I would have never learned about this normally.

 

[dms1972]

I have to admit you all are more well informed than what I am used to. Usually all I get is maybe some scripture and a explaination but mostly just arguments back and forths no real content to discuss but this is different this barth guy for instance I would have never learned about this normally.

I look a lot of stuff up on the internet, or in books often as I am replying to a thread. I am not an expert, but sometimes there is some vague idea in my mind someone said this or that about a subject, then I do a search to see if I can find what it was again.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

I have to admit you all are more well informed than what I am used to. Usually all I get is maybe some scripture and a explaination but mostly just arguments back and forths no real content to discuss but this is different this barth guy for instance I would have never learned about this normally.

FYI, I have a bachelors degree in religious studies, which included a couple classes on religion and philosophy. I was also working Masters of Divinity in the mid 2000s, so philosophy and ethics are a part of that training. As Michael Collum said, philosophy is where the rubber meets the road. A number of Christian theologians were trained first as philosophers. These include Augustine, John Chrysostom, Justin Martyr, Origen, and John of Damascus. So we need to be cautious about philosophy but it can't be ignored. Even Jesus echoed Jewish philosophy and rabbis such as Hillel and Shammai who taught in the generation right before Christ.

There was an incident involving a Gentile who came before Shammai and requested:
“Convert me to Judaism on condition that you will teach me the entire Torah while I stand on one foot.”
Shammai pushed the man away with the building rod he was holding.

Undeterred, the man then came before Hillel with the same request.
Hillel said to him, “That which is hateful unto you, do not do unto your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Now, go and study.”

Jesus echos Hillel during the Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule, “Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12)

 

[Agra man]

I look a lot of stuff up on the internet, or in books often as I am replying to a thread. I am not an expert, but sometimes there is some vague idea in my mind someone said this or that about a subject, then I do a search to see if I can find what it was again.

I do the exact same thing recently God actually did this with me on a thread created by a new user on another forum on actual biblical evidence of a round earth as I was reading it the word firmament came to mind. I sadly have to deal with memory issues so a lot of times I have to look up scriptures or verses as I am reading threads or something so this to pop up I haven'ty heard it in years

I was pretty

FYI, I have a bachelors degree in religious studies, which included a couple classes on religion and philosophy. I was also working Masters of Divinity in the mid 2000s, so philosophy and ethics are a part of that training. As Michael Collum said, philosophy is where the rubber meets the road. A number of Christian theologians were trained first as philosophers. These include Augustine, John Chrysostom, Justin Martyr, Origen, and John of Damascus. So we need to be cautious about philosophy but it can't be ignored. Even Jesus echoed Jewish philosophy and rabbis such as Hillel and Shammai who taught in the generation right before Christ.

There was an incident involving a Gentile who came before Shammai and requested:
“Convert me to Judaism on condition that you will teach me the entire Torah while I stand on one foot.”
Shammai pushed the man away with the building rod he was holding.

Undeterred, the man then came before Hillel with the same request.
Hillel said to him, “That which is hateful unto you, do not do unto your neighbor. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Now, go and study.”

Jesus echos Hillel during the Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule, “Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12)

So I have a question then. That stuff my friend was talking about about the marriage of the angels and the church and how he called the divorce in heaven the time when they rebeled against God the stuff he was talking about mother earth and using the mind to envelope yourself in a aura of protection using the energy of mother earth all this he called philosophy which to be honest I get the feeling he just calls it that to justify his reasoning but fine lets say it is philosophy I am fine with that.


But he claimed it as fact calling it hidden scripture he also mentioned a lot about emotions calling himself an emotional prophet referencing about Paul being emotional

I saw the red flags of this mother earth esp type thing but it was the fact he refused to let go of it having no basis or evidence to back it and he ballistic and became very offended by me telling how the things he is talking about is rooted in the occult but again he said you just don't understand philosophy.

So is it really that easy? You can just make up some stuff and call it philosophy is that the new because I can't prove it method?

 

[Agra man]

I'm sorry for some reason it quoted two things the first was to @dms1972 Mainly I wanted to say I do the exact same thing

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

I saw the red flags of this mother earth esp type thing but it was the fact he refused to let go of it having no basis or evidence to back it and he ballistic and became very offended by me telling how the things he is talking about is rooted in the occult but again he said you just don't understand philosophy.

So is it really that easy? You can just make up some stuff and call it philosophy is that the new because I can't prove it method?

Even early on, Christianity had to deal with the mystery religions that showed up as Gnosticism. Nothing is "hidden" in Christianity. Even when Jesus taught by parable, He did explain Himself to the Apostles. This is one reason why competing texts, such as the Gospel of Thomas, were not permitted to be read in services. Once you try to incorporate Gnostic texts into Christian thought, the Gnostic texts don't make any sense or have any place in the Christian framework. Your friend is pretty much taking Gnosticism as a legitimate form of Christian thought. It's one thing to use Mother Earth metaphorically as nature, but as part of a cosmic philosophy, it is opposed to Christianity as a part of theology.


That being said, what I mean by philosophy, is schools of thought such as Stoicism or Taoism. These CAN have value in Christianity. For example, the classic Chinese philosophy Tao de Ching, or "The Way", opens with this passage,

The Way that can be told of is not an Unvarying Way;
The names that can be named are not unvarying names.
It was from the Nameless that Heaven and Earth sprang;
The named is but the mother that rears the ten thousand creatures, each after its kind.

The main translation of John 1:1 into Chinese is
In the beginning, was the Tao, and the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God.

So here, Christian translators are translating Logos, where we get the English word of logic or study (biology aka study of life), into Tao, which carries a similar concept in Chinese.

 

[Agra man]

Even early on, Christianity had to deal with the mystery religions that showed up as Gnosticism. Nothing is "hidden" in Christianity. Even when Jesus taught by parable, He did explain Himself to the Apostles. This is one reason why competing texts, such as the Gospel of Thomas, were not permitted to be read in services. Once you try to incorporate Gnostic texts into Christian thought, the Gnostic texts don't make any sense or have any place in the Christian framework. Your friend is pretty much taking Gnosticism as a legitimate form of Christian thought. It's one thing to use Mother Earth metaphorically as nature, but as part of a cosmic philosophy, it is opposed to Christianity as a part of theology.


That being said, what I mean by philosophy, is schools of thought such as Stoicism or Taoism. These CAN have value in Christianity. For example, the classic Chinese philosophy Tao de Ching, or "The Way", opens with this passage,

The Way that can be told of is not an Unvarying Way;
The names that can be named are not unvarying names.
It was from the Nameless that Heaven and Earth sprang;
The named is but the mother that rears the ten thousand creatures, each after its kind.

The main translation of John 1:1 into Chinese is
In the beginning, was the Tao, and the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God.

So here, Christian translators are translating Logos, where we get the English word of logic or study (biology aka study of life), into Tao, which carries a similar concept in Chinese.

Wow you really know your stuff. I am going to have to keep you in mind as I may require some of your insight on a tricky subject that I am having trouble understanding.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Wow you really know your stuff. I am going to have to keep you in mind as I may require some of your insight on a tricky subject that I am having trouble understanding.

Thanks. Although I'm Greek Orthodox, so I have my own personal biases, bu when it comes to historical matters, I try to be relatively unbiased and present information fairly neutrally. In seminary, we had to read some Gnostic texts and they are very different from the recognized Scriptures. I've pretty much studied most large religions except Hinduism.

 

[GenemZ]

Hello I am agra man I came across this site and saw that it had this section on Christian Philosophy. To be honest I have heard of it but never really got into what it is so I am niave in this area. And a friend of mine well we got intoan argument because he was saying some really odd things calling it philosophy things about mother earth using the mind to sync to the spirit even going so far as to explain how mother earth has some kind of life energy that using the mind with the spirit creates an aura of protection and just odd stuff he said there was a marriage with the angels and the church before creation and that divorce was in heaven with us and them

I love talking with him about the things of God we have a blast but the things he was saying here well he didn't take to well to me warning him about all this stuff even though there was absolutely no evidence of what he said what so ever he just saw it as truth and saw me as being petty and attacking him.

I tried first before even confronting him to understand what he meant about it being philosophy he said it is basically adding to an already established thing. Ok for studying and research looking at things from a different perspective maybe I can be on board with that but to say it as fact though well I wasn't having that.

But I wondered if perhaps the argument could have gone different if I had understood what Christian Philosophy is so what is it exactly what the reason to study it and what purpose does it serve?

Paul revealed that true Christianity (not religion) destroyed philosophy.
To call it "Christian philosophy?" Would be like teaching a course called "virtuous bisexuality."

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? ​

Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" 1 Cor 1:20​

Philosophy is man's attempt to seek solutions from a perspective that God has nothing to do with our lives. "The God," that is. False gods always crossover into a philosophical bent as to make the false seem plausible to the naive.

Some have tried to modify that stand since Christianity became a major force in many peoples lives, but it still looks dumb to those who have found found doctrinal thinking.

That does not mean a Christian does not study what philosophers taught to know what it covers if they are so inclined to do so. But as far as it being an answer for life? Its designed for the unbeliever who is so inclined to think along those lines....

Christians if they desire to, should learn how certain philosophical precepts work as to be able to hold a conversation when needed.

"I think. Therefore I am" .... a believer in Jesus Christ."

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Sigh, the thing is that the Bible does have wisdom literature, Job, Ecc, Proverbs, and for those of us with a larger canon, Wisdom and Sirach.

In the Christian tradition, which very few outside of the Catholic, Orthodox or Coptic faiths are aware of are the sayings of the Desert Fathers. These are stories which contain wisdom and philosophy of the Christian life. For example,


At some time, St. Anthony the Great thought to himself “I wonder with whose spiritual achievements my spiritual life can be compared with”. God, however, in order to humble this thought revealed to him in a dream that superior to him was a shoe-maker who had a store in the back streets of Alexandria.

Once it was daybreak, the saint took his staff and headed off to the city. He wanted to meet in person this famed shoe-maker and see his virtues. With great difficulty he discovered his store, sat down at the counter and began asking about his life.

The man was simple and didn’t even occur to him who this elderly monk was that had come so unexpectedly into his store querying him. The man, while continuing to work and without taking his eyes off the shoes he was working on replied gently;

“Elder, I don’t know if I have ever done anything good. Every morning after waking up, I pray and then I start work. First, I think to myself how every person in this city, from the smallest to the greatest will be saved, and only I will be condemned due to my countless transgressions. And in the evening when I go to sleep I have the same thoughts.

The Elder rose with wonder and embraced and kissed him and said emotively:

“You, my brother, like a good merchant, have gained the priceless pearl without toil. I have grown old in the desert, sweated and toiled but have not reached your level of humility.”

 

[dms1972]

To Agra Man: Whatever it is (your friend is espousing), it doesn't sound like christian philosophy to me.

 

[public hermit]

Whatever it is, its not christian philosophy.

Why do you say that?