What is a good book on Gods Sovereignty?

[Mark Noo]

I am looking for content on things like "how involved with my decision to shop at Safeway (a grocery store, I think it is regional so it may need an explanation) or to shop at Fred Meyer (another grocery store).

I also need information on what my responsibility is in the decision to shop at one store over another.

I don't actually care about stores I am just trying to find scripture on how much of my life God is in control of - active control - so something like I really never had a choice between the two stores because it was already written/planned, etc.

I read AW Pinks work on it. I liked the scripture he quoted but he did not use any "smoking gun" quotes. Nothing directly on point. He used logic to prove this.
Unfortunately, one of the arguments relied on humans having security. So we know God is actively managing the world so the Earth's molten core doesn't blow up and kill all of us.
The argument went something like that.

The problem is, humans don't have certainty. Christ said, to paraphrase, "don't go into this town and say that we will trade tomorrow, but instead say if God is willing, and I am alive I will go into the town"

Christ seems to be saying we don't have certainty. I can't remember where, but Christ (I think) also said "only the Father knows", so still, no certainty.

I like logic, I have read a few books on it, but logic does not equal truth, whereas God's word does equal truth.

(one of the reasons I ask nearly all my questions here is because Calvanist generally cite authority (scripture) when they make a claim. And to be certain, I need God to tell me. To be pretty sure, I can rely on logic.

Anyway, the question is this:

Am I actor playing out my part?
If I am, how responsible for my choices am I?
(is it inevitable, or can I operate outside of God's plan for me)

According to RC Sproul (a man I adore) even if one molecule in the universe can defy God than God's promises are for nothing, because the rogue molecule could mess up the plan.

Again, how does that work on whether I am gong to wear my sneakers to work or a pair loafers?
I will stop belaboring the point, I think you guys get it. I am talking about specific, little things.
For instance, I got laid off at work about a year ago, I struggled but survived, and now I have this new job with a boat load of potential.
Did God force my old manager to choose to lay me off, or was it just random. (it was actually seniority, but God could also have gotten me hired earlier so I would have had more seniority and been safe)
So did God get me laid off to get me to this new job, or am I a free actor - able to to what I want and mess up God's plan.

Thanks

Do abused children who grow up and become drug addicts, etc. have a choice. Did not God put them in that family, doesn't God know everything, so he should know how that they will respond to the abuse by compensating with drugs/lifes of crime/permiscuity/whatever?

..........
according to God, our lives are a "vapor". A maximum of 120 years is not even the blink of an eye to an eternal, Holy God. So maybe everything does matter, but you can see that I am back to reasoning now - so I don't have an answer - just an idea.
I need better reasons or preferably stronger scripture to run to before I can make up my mind. And I need to make up my mind or at least formulate a working theory.

 

[redleghunter]

Does God Control Everything?

 

[redleghunter]

 

[Sam91]

Proverbs 3:5-6

 

[Chris V++]

I've heard distinctions made between God's 'permissive' will and his 'perfect' will, so all I have to offer this thread is those terms. To me that seems to suggest your grocery store of choice falls under the providence of His permissive will, where as you might meet a Christian in one of those stores who God wants you to interact with in accordance with His perfect will, which will, in my understanding, come to pass. Does God dictate whether or not you decide to drink Coke or Gatorade? That seems highly unlikely to me, given we were given brains that weigh options and make choices, which sounds like an exercise in free will.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I am looking for content on things like "how involved with my decision to shop at Safeway (a grocery store, I think it is regional so it may need an explanation) or to shop at Fred Meyer (another grocery store).

I also need information on what my responsibility is in the decision to shop at one store over another.

I don't actually care about stores I am just trying to find scripture on how much of my life God is in control of - active control - so something like I really never had a choice between the two stores because it was already written/planned, etc.

I read AW Pinks work on it. I liked the scripture he quoted but he did not use any "smoking gun" quotes. Nothing directly on point. He used logic to prove this.
Unfortunately, one of the arguments relied on humans having security. So we know God is actively managing the world so the Earth's molten core doesn't blow up and kill all of us.
The argument went something like that.

The problem is, humans don't have certainty. Christ said, to paraphrase, "don't go into this town and say that we will trade tomorrow, but instead say if God is willing, and I am alive I will go into the town"

Christ seems to be saying we don't have certainty. I can't remember where, but Christ (I think) also said "only the Father knows", so still, no certainty.

I like logic, I have read a few books on it, but logic does not equal truth, whereas God's word does equal truth.

(one of the reasons I ask nearly all my questions here is because Calvanist generally cite authority (scripture) when they make a claim. And to be certain, I need God to tell me. To be pretty sure, I can rely on logic.

Anyway, the question is this:

Am I actor playing out my part?
If I am, how responsible for my choices am I?
(is it inevitable, or can I operate outside of God's plan for me)

According to RC Sproul (a man I adore) even if one molecule in the universe can defy God than God's promises are for nothing, because the rogue molecule could mess up the plan.

Again, how does that work on whether I am gong to wear my sneakers to work or a pair loafers?
I will stop belaboring the point, I think you guys get it. I am talking about specific, little things.
For instance, I got laid off at work about a year ago, I struggled but survived, and now I have this new job with a boat load of potential.
Did God force my old manager to choose to lay me off, or was it just random. (it was actually seniority, but God could also have gotten me hired earlier so I would have had more seniority and been safe)
So did God get me laid off to get me to this new job, or am I a free actor - able to to what I want and mess up God's plan.

Thanks

Do abused children who grow up and become drug addicts, etc. have a choice. Did not God put them in that family, doesn't God know everything, so he should know how that they will respond to the abuse by compensating with drugs/lifes of crime/permiscuity/whatever?

..........
according to God, our lives are a "vapor". A maximum of 120 years is not even the blink of an eye to an eternal, Holy God. So maybe everything does matter, but you can see that I am back to reasoning now - so I don't have an answer - just an idea.
I need better reasons or preferably stronger scripture to run to before I can make up my mind. And I need to make up my mind or at least formulate a working theory.

God is not a micro-manager. He gave us a brain and a mind to use right judgment about the decisions we need to make in life. He tells us in Psalm 32:9:
"Do not be like the horse or the mule, which have no understanding but must be controlled by bit and bridle or they will not come to you."

This means that we can use our own judgment and make our own decisions without having to have a Scripture or a "voice" every time we want to make a life decision. My wife and I are going to move cities later this year, and that was a decision we made. I didn't need to ask God whether He approved of it, and when I did discuss it with Him, I got:

"A man’s heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps" (Proverbs 16:9).

I think that when we go to make a decision, we need to ask not, "Is this right?", but: "Is this beneficial?" So I decided it was beneficial to move cities, to be closer to our daughter in our declining years to give her greater support where she is living, and seeing that we are on superannuation, we needed to sell our home in our present city and buy a similar quality home for much less and be able to meet our needs.

I reject the "shepherd/discipleship" teaching in some churches that puts people under the "covering" of another person so that we have to account to that person for every decision we make. That teaching came out of Fort Lauderdale in the 1970s, and it was a heresy and a demonic doctrine that causes untold harm to so many good and godly people. It made a person afraid to go down to the shop and buy a pair of pants unless he got approval from his church "shepherd". It also made mature believers subject to some wet-behind-the-ears novice appointed to be their housegroup leader whom the church gave authority to be the "shepherd" of the group.

 

[The Righterzpen]

First off; you ask very valid questions and ones that are indeed difficult to reconcile.

I don't actually care about stores I am just trying to find scripture on how much of my life God is in control of - active control - so something like I really never had a choice between the two stores because it was already written/planned, etc.

You like to use logic, so here's a "logical" explanation that might be useful.

Imagine (as much as our feeble minds can grasp) what it would be like to be all knowing, all powerful, every where present, having no beginning and no end, as well as being un-killable. Hard to wrap your brain around as a finite creature - I know, but bear with me here. We'll stretch our brains a bit.

All those attributes I just mentioned are definitive descriptors of what makes God God.

So God as an entity with this infinite capacity can certainly interact effectively in a creation to produce outcomes in creatures who have wills of their own. And I'm not talking about just humans. If you have pets, tried to train a dog, a horse, herd cats (lol), put cows out to pasture; you readily recognize that a will that operates independently of the wills of other creatures as well as "instinct" is present in all life that has a large enough cerebral cortex to be able to make choices.

And this isn't true for just carbon based life. This is also true for what we'd call "spirit entities" like angels and demons and such entities that are described as "beasts" in the book of Revelation (for example).

God as a creative entity; I believe created certain life forms like this because of His own ability to make novel decisions.

So in that sense, whether you go into one grocery store or another, wear these pair of shoes or those, is irrelevant because God as an independent entity operates in "real time" in a similar matter as you do. The difference between you and God though is that your decision making processes are limited by your physical parameters. Because you reside in a temporal body, obviously you can not be omnipresent. You're also not omniscient.

God knows the beginning from the end; a portion of that is obviously set in a predetermined plan, and yet another aspect of it is also set in "real time interaction". Now does the "real time interaction" represent on some level our predictability as being fallen creatures? I suppose that's possible; after all God possessed the knowledge of good and evil before He ever created anything. Again though the difference between God and us is that God is not corruptible by that knowledge; where as we are.

You following me here?

So because of the totality of the entity that God is; this is how He can operate effectively accomplishing His will in a creation filled with billions of limited creatures who all have independent wills. God did not create robots; yet as the supreme entity that He is; has the capacity to supersede anything that happens. This is how His will is not ultimate frustrated by anything we do; be it of ignorance, willful disobedience or anything like that. This is what it means to be sovereign.

The problem is, humans don't have certainty. Christ said, to paraphrase, "don't go into this town and say that we will trade tomorrow, but instead say if God is willing, and I am alive I will go into the town"

Christ seems to be saying we don't have certainty. I can't remember where, but Christ (I think) also said "only the Father knows", so still, no certainty.

Now I'm not exactly sure how you are looking at this. We can say that humans don't have certainly because we are not omniscient and can't see the entire plan. That is certainly accurate.

But if you're asking about being certain of your redemption, you can know that. That's a different question though than "How does God accomplish His purposes in "real time".

I like logic, I have read a few books on it, but logic does not equal truth, whereas God's word does equal truth.

Truth can always be logically delineated. The problem with our logic though, is that our logic isn't always logical and we can't always see that. A mathematical formula that will produce the same outcome 100% of the time is "logic" in its purest form.

Now here is where we need not throw reason out the door; because yes, God gave us brains and certain degrees of intellectual abilities. And I believe we bear the capacity to understand a lot more than we do.

Our problem though is that we are tainted by the fall and our own sin; so though we may seek to obtain to as perfect of understanding as can be grasped; we'll never get there this side of eternity. And it's OK not to know. Sometimes asking the question in a little different matter can bring more clarity. But there is nothing wrong with seeking answers. God says if we seek wisdom we will find it.

Am I actor playing out my part?
If I am, how responsible for my choices am I?
(is it inevitable, or can I operate outside of God's plan for me)

I'm sure you agree with the statement that God is not the author of sin. So yes, of course it is possible that people can operate outside of God's will (so can animals). In the most fundamental sense of the word, that's what sin is.

So are you an actor playing a part? In one sense yes; yet in another sense, actors are not robots either. You bring to the roll God has for you, the totality of your personality, your experiences, your aptitudes, your interests etc. And all that was indeed forged "in real time" in the sovereignty of God's master plan. You are indeed the "character" you play; but that role is real and life is not a dress rehearsal. Choices we make "in real time" are important and have consequences.

Do abused children who grow up and become drug addicts, etc. have a choice. Did not God put them in that family, doesn't God know everything, so he should know how that they will respond to the abuse by compensating with drugs/lifes of crime/permiscuity/whatever?

Now here too; I'm sure you are aware of people who come out of extremely difficult circumstances to "make something out of their lives". "Growin' up ghetto" doesn't "make you ghetto". Your choices "make you ghetto."

Sometimes that's a product of sheer human willpower and sometimes it's a result of Divine intervention. I know plenty of people who've turned their lives around who are not redeemed. AA, NA, Al-Anon, Sex Addicts Anonomyous, rooms are full of people with such stories. And the fact that humans can actually do that, solely on a human level is absolutely a mercy of God!

according to God, our lives are a "vapor". A maximum of 120 years is not even the blink of an eye to an eternal, Holy God. So maybe everything does matter, but you can see that I am back to reasoning now - so I don't have an answer - just an idea.

I need better reasons or preferably stronger scripture to run to before I can make up my mind. And I need to make up my mind or at least formulate a working theory.

And yes, the struggle of how the questions can "bug ya" until you get some semblance of an answer (or "working theory"). So hopefully the explanations I've given at least give you a starting point.

 

[hedrick]

Jonathan Edwards' Freedom of the Will.

 

[rnmomof7]

I am looking for content on things like "how involved with my decision to shop at Safeway (a grocery store, I think it is regional so it may need an explanation) or to shop at Fred Meyer (another grocery store).

I also need information on what my responsibility is in the decision to shop at one store over another.

I don't actually care about stores I am just trying to find scripture on how much of my life God is in control of - active control - so something like I really never had a choice between the two stores because it was already written/planned, etc.

I read AW Pinks work on it. I liked the scripture he quoted but he did not use any "smoking gun" quotes. Nothing directly on point. He used logic to prove this.
Unfortunately, one of the arguments relied on humans having security. So we know God is actively managing the world so the Earth's molten core doesn't blow up and kill all of us.
The argument went something like that.

The problem is, humans don't have certainty. Christ said, to paraphrase, "don't go into this town and say that we will trade tomorrow, but instead say if God is willing, and I am alive I will go into the town"

Christ seems to be saying we don't have certainty. I can't remember where, but Christ (I think) also said "only the Father knows", so still, no certainty.

I like logic, I have read a few books on it, but logic does not equal truth, whereas God's word does equal truth.

(one of the reasons I ask nearly all my questions here is because Calvanist generally cite authority (scripture) when they make a claim. And to be certain, I need God to tell me. To be pretty sure, I can rely on logic.

Anyway, the question is this:

Am I actor playing out my part?
If I am, how responsible for my choices am I?
(is it inevitable, or can I operate outside of God's plan for me)

According to RC Sproul (a man I adore) even if one molecule in the universe can defy God than God's promises are for nothing, because the rogue molecule could mess up the plan.

Again, how does that work on whether I am gong to wear my sneakers to work or a pair loafers?
I will stop belaboring the point, I think you guys get it. I am talking about specific, little things.
For instance, I got laid off at work about a year ago, I struggled but survived, and now I have this new job with a boat load of potential.
Did God force my old manager to choose to lay me off, or was it just random. (it was actually seniority, but God could also have gotten me hired earlier so I would have had more seniority and been safe)
So did God get me laid off to get me to this new job, or am I a free actor - able to to what I want and mess up God's plan.

Thanks

Do abused children who grow up and become drug addicts, etc. have a choice. Did not God put them in that family, doesn't God know everything, so he should know how that they will respond to the abuse by compensating with drugs/lifes of crime/permiscuity/whatever?

..........
according to God, our lives are a "vapor". A maximum of 120 years is not even the blink of an eye to an eternal, Holy God. So maybe everything does matter, but you can see that I am back to reasoning now - so I don't have an answer - just an idea.
I need better reasons or preferably stronger scripture to run to before I can make up my mind. And I need to make up my mind or at least formulate a working theory.

We all make our choices based on our nature and preferences.. Those things were determined by God at the time of our conception.. Man today calls it our "DNA" that is just another way to say we make choices based on a predetermined thing... Does God really care where you shop.. Of course just as He counts the hairs on your head..
God may have a specific plan for you to be at a certain place at a certain time.. Your choice has always been planned by God

 

[redleghunter]

Gave this more thought...Best book on God’s Sovereignty is the Bible. Best summary is Paul’s epistle to the Romans.

 

[JM]

Book: https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/pink/sov2015_p.pdf