What is a free mason?? /need advice?

Plan 9 · Sep 13, 2003

Thaddeus said:
Thank you.

It's not really my intent to join any lodge. I just wanted to know what I might say to others who think about joining masons.

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I wasn't suggesting that you join, precisely because you have these worries; I was merely suggesting that you talk to some masons and attend some meetings, so you could get a sense of the people there.

I can say because of you, plan 9, I leave this feeling it's not as evil as I thought prior to discussing some of these issues.

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As was said earlier, evil men certainly sometimes belong; one example is the murderer Seddon, who, when he finally realized that he was going to be convicted and hanged, began to make Masonic signs to both the judge and jury. The judgewas a Mason; after the jury brought in the gulty verdict, the judge turned his head away until Seddon stopped, then donned his black cap and sentenced him to death.
Seddon was a miser who kiled his lady lodger to obtain her small annuity. I'm sure he belonged to a church, too. This was in the 1800s.

I really would have liked to talked to your uncle personaly.

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You know, I wish I had had more of a chance to talk to my uncle..I wasn't saved until two or three years after he died and I was too young and shy to discuss the things with him I would now. I did talk a lot to a Mennonite farmer about a lot of things as a new Christian and I guess he was the person God gave me to be my replacement for my Uncle Louis in this regard?
Both He and my Uncle Lewis were the kind of men who radiated Christian goodness and you could bask in it. I suppose that's why I got off-topic and began to talk about Honeytree, because she's the same way. I'm not and don't pretend I am. I feel kind of like that famous quote about science: "If I see farther, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants."

billmcelligott · Sep 13, 2003

Thaddeus said:
Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Former Masons say one thing, current Masons sworn to secrecy say another. I would think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Thadeus, do me a favour , check out the Ex Masons who 'spill the beans' you find they are all selling a book about it. I would have more respect for them if they just said it.

I think thats all I want from the observer , is ask. If it is a subject that you have an interest in then examine it as you would any other. those that shout the loudest are not always those with the truth.

ej · Sep 13, 2003

May I ask a few last questions?

I still don't understand why there is such an enormous amount of material, both internet and reputable published books, which refers to Masonry as Satanic. Why is this?

Why is the identity of the Freemason deity kept secret? Why is a different explanation of deity given at different levels of Masonry? If there is nothing sinister, why is the true identity of the Masonic God hidden - even from lodge members - until Royal Arch Degree?

Thanks

ej · Sep 14, 2003

sweetkitty said:
None of the things you listed are true..they are a lie.

The facts I posted are not my opinion. They are from the Masonic Oaths. I did not make them up for perverse pleasure. I copied them from a book containing Masonic rules and oaths.

billmcelligott · Sep 14, 2003

emmajane said:
May I ask a few last questions?
Of course you can, please remember I speak just for myself not for any official Masonry Office.

I still don't understand why there is such an enormous amount of material, both internet and reputable published books, which refers to Masonry as Satanic. Why is this?

I would like to know the answer to this also. I would suggest that Books that say everyone is really nice and are just your nieghbors and friends , dont sell very well.

I can tell you that one of my Best Friends is a Methodist Minister, who I met argueing about this question. He was very anti Masonry. He then realised that all the guys in his life, that had influenced him in a good way, turned out to be Masons. After much heart serching and more arguments, he will be initiated next January.

Why is the identity of the Freemason deity kept secret? Why is a different explanation of deity given at different levels of Masonry? If there is nothing sinister, why is the true identity of the Masonic God hidden - even from lodge members - until Royal Arch Degree?

Well its not a secret , the diety is the God of your religion, no Mason has ever said otherwise. These rituals were written around 1650 to 1717 in England and have not changed very much since. They were never meant to be a religious ceremony. The ritual is meant to be a living book. An experience the more forcily to impress on the participant the reality of what true FIDELITY and TRUST means. What is the most important thing you want from your closest friends, you want them to keep to themselves any little secret you might tell them. Thats how you test FIDELITY and TRUST.

Thanks

Plan 9 · Sep 14, 2003

Thaddeus said:
I'm in Kansas CIty

I live in Springfield, Thaddeus, and my OES Chapter is in Bolivar.

My Uncle Russell, a retired U.M.C. minister, lives in Kansas City.

KennySe · Sep 14, 2003

hello, everyone. This is my first post on this thread.

I was posting on the thread at the Catholic Forum, but I see that this thread has more activity from Lodge members.(Bill, SweetKitty, Plan 9...[Am I missing anyone?])

As my questions are directed to you all, I figured I'd ask here.

***

* Who specifically is Jah-Bul-On?
(Do you each have the same spelling?)

* Do you own the book "Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry" by Malcom C. Duncan [originally entitled "Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor or guide to the three symbolic degrees of the Ancient York Rite and to the degrees of Mark Master, Past Master, Most Excellent Master, and the Royal Arch']?
* Would you say that it is accurate?
(It's available at Amazon.com)

Thanks for your replies,
Kenny

Plan 9 · Sep 15, 2003

KennySe said:
hello, everyone. This is my first post on this thread.

I was posting on the thread at the Catholic Forum, but I see that this thread has more activity from Lodge members.(Bill, SweetKitty, Plan 9...[Am I missing anyone?])

As my questions are directed to you all, I figured I'd ask here.

***

* Who specifically is Jah-Bul-On?
(Do you each have the same spelling?)

* Do you own the book "Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry" by Malcom C. Duncan [originally entitled "Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor or guide to the three symbolic degrees of the Ancient York Rite and to the degrees of Mark Master, Past Master, Most Excellent Master, and the Royal Arch']?
* Would you say that it is accurate?
(It's available at Amazon.com)

Thanks for your replies,
Kenny

Hi, Kenny! I'm a member of OES only and I can't answer these particular questions, but I'll be happy to answer any I can.

XxABC123xX · Sep 15, 2003

I am not a mason or anything, and i do not plan on being one, but i do not see this so called religion a true religion and I dont know that much on this society. Hey Bill, if ya are tellin the truth on your view of masons, you are one brave man.

Plan 9 · Sep 15, 2003

XxABC123xX said:
I am not a mason or anything, and i do not plan on being one, but i do not see this so called religion a true religion and I dont know that much on this society. Hey Bill, if ya are tellin the truth on your view of masons, you are one brave man.

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand your post. Could you explain, please?

billmcelligott · Sep 15, 2003

KennySe said:
hello, everyone.

* Who specifically is Jah-Bul-On?
(Do you each have the same spelling?)

After 30 to 40 posts on the subject between two of my friends one a Doctor and the other a UMC Minister we arrived at this.

(1) Jah = a shortened form of Yahweh or Jehovah.
(2) Bul = another form of baal, translated as husband throughout most of the Old Testament, but also translated as master in Exodus 22:8, and Judges 19:22-23.
(3) On = the same name God gave Moses when questioned, whom shall I say has sent me? The fact that this is a name for God is clear from the passage in Hosea 12:4, translating house of On from the Septuagint Greek version, which corresponds to the Hebrew Bethel, which means House of God.

Now the ant Masonic lobby tires to make it into a name of a new God, it is not. In UGLE the word is the Hebrew / English name for God as in the Bible.

* Do you own the book "Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry" by Malcom C. Duncan [originally entitled "Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor or guide to the three symbolic degrees of the Ancient York Rite and to the degrees of Mark Master, Past Master, Most Excellent Master, and the Royal Arch']?
* Would you say that it is accurate?
(It's available at Amazon.com)

The problem with one book Kenny is that there are many. Each District may have a number of different rituals, workings, as sometimes reffered. My working in the UK wil be different to those in the US, we are more simlar to Canada. You have Lodges in lots of Countries that come under United Grand Lodge of England ( UGLE) you could also have Lodges that come under your State or Province Grand Lodge. So there is not just one book of ritual. The thing that ties us all together are the three ornaments of a Masonic Lodge. Brotherly Love Relief and Truth.

Thanks for your replies,
Kenny

billmcelligott · Sep 15, 2003

XxABC123xX said:
I am not a mason or anything, and i do not plan on being one, but i do not see this so called religion a true religion and I dont know that much on this society. Hey Bill, if ya are tellin the truth on your view of masons, you are one brave man.

Xx

If its OK for me to shorten your name. You are absolutely correct Freemasonry is not a Religion. There are many who will wish you to see it as such, but those of us in Masonry do not.
Xx , I always tell the truth. I am prepared to back up everything I say if challenged. It is my belief that Masonry has suffered for far too long because it has not spoken out. The general concensus was to just ignore the critics. That is not my way.
If you say nothing when someone is telling lies about you, silence implies consent. I find it very difficult to keep my gob shut when there is something in front of me that is just not true.
I swear an oath not to reveal th secrets of Masonry and I will not. These secrets are so insignificant , that the only importance to them is the fact that we will not repeat them. The rest of the ritual and most of the secrets are available if you want to look on the net. Its just I will not repeat them.

KennySe · Sep 15, 2003

Bill and Plan 9,
thank you for your replies.

***

Plan 9, would you ask your fellow Lodge members if they have the info to answer my inquiries? I really would like American Lodge members explanations on Jah-Bul-On, and on the Duncan book.

**

Because you (plural) are Lodge members, I want your replies to my questions. PM me when you find out the answers.

Thanks.

Thaddeus · Sep 15, 2003

billmcelligott said:
(2) Bul = another form of baal,

Can you elaborate on the "2)Bul" and "(3) On parts of this doctrine?

billmcelligott · Sep 15, 2003

KennySe said:
I really would like American Lodge members explanations on Jah-Bul-On, and on the Duncan book.

Sorry Ken , I did not make it clear my two friends are both American.

Thanks.

billmcelligott · Sep 15, 2003

Thaddeus said:
Can you elaborate on the "2)Bul" and "(3) On parts of this doctrine?

How far do you wish to go. i have a report from another site:

This was the answer to the speculative explantion above, sorry I should have made it clear it was from an Anti Mason. The problem with some of the Masonic ritual is that up to about 1650 the ritual was not written down but told and re told. There we see tha position of part of the ritual which admonishes the Candidate never to write any of the masonic secrets. So the formal written text was derived from these once remembered stories, I would suspect much confusion was part of the original writings.

Anyway from one of my Pals, who is not a Mason but a Theological Graduate.................
I have continued to look over the things Charles has had to say on this thing. I had a suspicion when looking at the Greek and Hebrew roots, that rather than being 3 names put together, it looked entirely possible it was simply a statement about God. But considering that speculation, I did not introduce it into the mix, preferring to just spell out what I had found. Since then I have looked a bit further at the meanings of these originals, and I still found myself pursuing that possibility mentally, while actually going in other directions. So I decided to see if it made any connection with any of the meanings in the lexicons. Of course, the "Jah" is the shortened form of Yahveh, or Jehovah. The "bel" or "bul" or "baal" is the main word used to represent what we translate as "husband," with a strong secondary usage by derivation from a male-dominated culture, as "master" or "lord." The "on" is clear in both places it appears, as another name used for Jehovah God, by way of the Septuagint Greek form. In the Exodus passage, it translates the "I AM" of the statement God uses to answer Moses, usually put as "I AM THAT I AM." The English translation that comes with my own Septuagint version has it as "I am 'the Being.'" The New Living Translation has it as "I am the one who always is." My Hebrew-English bible has it, "I will ever be what I am now." The clearest definite fact we know of the name is that it derives from the Hebrew root word that translates as "to be." Also, the form it appears with in both the Hebrew and the Greek is a present form, and in the Greek a present participle, calling for the most literal translation of the word as "is being," to capture the continuation aspect of both the present tense and the participle.

Going back to the Jah-bul-on word, it now gets a bit more interesting. If you take it straight as the word itself is constructed, it comes together as "Jehovah-Master-is being," "Jehovah-husband-is being," or "Jehovah-Lord-is being." Of the three, the most natural construction we have with the language concepts of our own English, would be the third, as we are less likely to speak of God as either husband or master.

What is even more interesting is that with the word order falling the way it does, the pattern fits the language structure of both the Hebrew and the Greek, of having the verb appear after its object. To our English, the construction sounds awkward, since we have object following verb, to make it "Jehovah-is-Lord," in which case the order would have been "Jah-on-bul." But in both the languages where the roots derive from, the words are in natural order to form the simple sentence construction, "Jehovah is Lord."

Since we've taken the observation this far, I will conjecture to take it one step further. Someone, and I'm not taking the amount of time it would probably take to locate it, but someone said in a post somewhere on E-5 that there are similarities when comparing between the Hebrew and the Greek, with the name for God, Yahveh, and the name for Jesus, Iesou. In fact, I have long had an argument with some Jehovah's Witnesses concerning the fact that they are one and the same ultimately. I base it on the Old Testament where it is Jehovah who saysin Isaiah, "I declare the ends from the beginning," and in Revelation it is Jesus who says "I am the beginning and the end." In Isaiah it is Jehovah who says, "To me every knee shall bow and every tongue take an oath," in Philippians it is Jesus of whom it is said, "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

To me, because of the name similarities, and because of the similar confessions, and because of the sentence structure formed by these three words, it does not appear to be a stretch to suggest that the statement made here could very well be the statement that was accepted in the early church as the very first Christian creed: "Jesus is Lord." That would sure make you pause to think about some of the traditions that actually do place Freemasonry's roots back that far.

Section of an article by Rev. Wayne Major.

We must remember there is no Dictionary of Masonic words so all is speculation, it is covenient for the anti Mason to take the most demonic possibilty.

SonWorshipper · Sep 15, 2003

sweetkitty said:
Fear of what is unknown and they feel it is somehow a threat to religion...of course religious bodies feel that anything outside of church is evil...right?
Think a minute...can you imagine Satan wanting to have his followers donate millions of dollars to handicapped children...to take care of widows and orphans? God says that a house divided against itself cannot stand...Satan cannot do good works.

Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Maybe he can't but he can hide behind them. Ever hear of a "front".

SonWorshipper · Sep 15, 2003

billmcelligott said:
How far do you wish to go. i have a report from another site:

Since we've taken the observation this far, I will conjecture to take it one step further. Someone, and I'm not taking the amount of time it would probably take to locate it, but someone said in a post somewhere on E-5 that there are similarities when comparing between the Hebrew and the Greek, with the name for God, Yahveh, and the name for Jesus, Iesou. In fact, I have long had an argument with some Jehovah's Witnesses concerning the fact that they are one and the same ultimately. I base it on the Old Testament where it is Jehovah who saysin Isaiah, "I declare the ends from the beginning," and in Revelation it is Jesus who says "I am the beginning and the end." In Isaiah it is Jehovah who says, "To me every knee shall bow and every tongue take an oath," in Philippians it is Jesus of whom it is said, "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

To me, because of the name similarities, and because of the similar confessions, and because of the sentence structure formed by these three words, it does not appear to be a stretch to suggest that the statement made here could very well be the statement that was accepted in the early church as the very first Christian creed: "Jesus is Lord." That would sure make you pause to think about some of the traditions that actually do place Freemasonry's roots back that far.

Is this explained to Jewish initiates I wonder?

Thaddeus · Sep 15, 2003

I haven't researched the "on" part of this yet. So let me assume that "on" equates to "is" as you suggest.

I think others might interpret Bul to be Baal or a Master or a pagan god (rain god), or even the devil.

We know that many in the Bible worshiped Baal and this greatly angered God.

If I borrow from some of your conclusions and use a different definition for Bul. I could reach that "God is Baal" and the latter "Jesus is Baal" or Bul.

The exact definition for Bul and Baal becomes critical from a religious standpoint

So in essence God would have been switched with the devil as I had previously suggested was a trick of how Masons can follow a false light and turn it around that It's not God they are to serve but Satan.

It wouldn't have been switched at all but simply revealed the meaning of Jah-Bul-On which some might have been led to worship. Would worship be accurate here?

This is deeply disturbing. Are you able to say that masons of today do not include this doctrine in the craft?

billmcelligott · Sep 15, 2003

Well Thadeus you have gone back to the original accusation that the refutes I posted were against.

For an anti Mason it is very convenient to say just that . Then he leads on to Masons worship the Devil.

I have given you a plausible explanation of the manufactured word. It is found no where but in Masonry. So it poses the question why?

If Masons wanted to worship the devil / Satan then why make up a name, just call him Lucifer.

Now arround 1600's Masonry was completely and totally Christian. The re write of the ritual in 1717 was done mostly it is speculated to accomodate the many religions that looked toward the example set by Masonry.

In otherwords to De-Christianize it. To take it out of the politics of the Church.

In modern day we see the concern of Christian especially Fundamentalists, to some of the ritual and words.

Jahbulon was originally used as the name of The diety to enable each mans faith not to be confused with anothers. In other words a name that could be used to encompass all.

In the UGLE ritual after consultation with the Anglican Church the word was altered to the Biblical Name of God. In some ritual books it remains.

The real question should be who is that individual thinking of when the explanation is given. Remember no one prays to this name it is only found as a word in a lecture.

We dont go around with our hands together saying , please Jahbulon can I have a new car.

So to conclude, how can we know what was in the mind of the author of the revitalised version of the ritual in 1717. They were given a job to do and they did it.

Lets say this:
H M King George the VI, who was initiated in 1919, accepted the Rank of Past Grand Master on his accession to the throne in 1937. Nearly 200 years earlier in 1752 (*4)George Washington, first President of the United States of America, was made a freemason in Virginia. Twelve other Presidents have followed in his footsteps as well as ......Winston Churchill... Giosue Carducci and Salvatore Quasimodo, Nobel prize winning poets...Niccolo Paganini and Mozart...(*5)Simon Bolivar..... Houdini... Lindbergh..... even Casanova...all masons having experienced the same initiation ceremony as myself.

Now at the time of his initiation King Goerge would have been the head of the Church of England. do we conclude all these wonderful men worshiped Satan. You tell me.

What is a free mason?? /need advice?

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