What is a free mason?? /need advice?

Plan 9 · Sep 27, 2003

Thaddeus said:
I think it's very important to understasnd that Baalism was a practice of worshiping different gods under the one name of Baal.

This is what you posted. It isn't true according to the article and now you're saying something different???

Why this obsession with Baal?

Thaddeus · Sep 27, 2003

Plan 9 said:
Thaddeus, you had already made up your mind before you posted here that Masonry was an ungodly religion and now you profess to know the motives of people you have never met.

That's not true Plan 9.

I had in fact heard things about Masonry and following a light which was supposed to be Satan. Then you guys, and Bill a Mason, spoke differently about it so I just listened. I asked a lot of questions and got answers.

I had never heard of Gaotu before I got to this thread. Bill taught me about it, and now it's an issue I would personaly find hard to resolve with Christian beliefs. I can't think of any other God. There isn't any other God. I couldn't join a group who respects every god.

Plan 9 · Sep 27, 2003

Plan 9 said:
Thad, I know you believe what you're saying, but here is your very first post on this thread. It appears to strongly imply that you aren't just going by data that Bill and others have given you, but already had other information you trusted. You appear to have already formed the opinion that "some of these guys are evil" and you knew enough about Masonry to ask Bill what degree he was.

Originally Posted by: Thaddeus
bill...may I ask you what degree you are?
I'm a baptist and I believe some of these guys are evil. I believe exactly as does Whitestar.

Plan 9 · Sep 27, 2003

Originally Posted by: whitestar
On the net I know a Mormon that is involved in this and trying to get out...he said MOST of their members have no idea what really goes on at the top levels (you work your way up these levels) and when you reach the hightest level some really horrible stuff does go on. He said something about pledging to satan and doing a blood oath, but then I wasn't able to talk to him in more detail about it. I will see if I can track him down.

He had no clue, as most of the members of what really goes on in the higher levels....so even many of their members are fooled into thinking they are doing good works...which apparently is a cover...

That is about all I know about it, from speaking to someone that made it to the higher level...oh yea and he did say he could be killed for saying anything about it....

God bless
whitestar

Plan 9 said:
And here is the post about which you said, "I believe exactly as does Whitestar."

If we have gotten the impression that you had a preconceived idea before you got here, it's you who gave us that impression. Do you see?

Whitestar posted that Masons had to pledge to Satan and you posted that you believed this from the get-go.

Plan 9 · Sep 27, 2003

Thaddeus said:
That's not true Plan 9.

I had in fact heard things about Masonry and following a light which was supposed to be Satan. Then you guys, and Bill a Mason, spoke differently about it so I just listened. I asked a lot of questions and got answers.

I had never heard of Gaotu before I got to this thread. Bill taught me about it, and now it's an issue I would personaly find hard to resolve with Christian beliefs. I can't think of any other God. There isn't any other God. I couldn't join a group who respects every god.

How did you get from what Bill, Wayne and I said that we respect every God?

If you don't want to belong to an organization which may include non-Christians, some of whom will earn you're respect, no one is making you.
However, CF is such a place and you're a member here.

billmcelligott · Sep 27, 2003

Thaddeus said:
That's not true Plan 9.

I had in fact heard things about Masonry and following a light which was supposed to be Satan. Then you guys, and Bill a Mason, spoke differently about it so I just listened. I asked a lot of questions and got answers.

I had never heard of Gaotu before I got to this thread. Bill taught me about it, and now it's an issue I would personaly find hard to resolve with Christian beliefs. I can't think of any other God. There isn't any other God. I couldn't join a group who respects every god.

Thad every religion in the world thinks that theirs is the one and only true GOD.

You faith is yours to chrerish. I wish to defend the faith of all free men and their right to cherish their faith.

I am concerned only with the blanket that is thrown over Masonry by some observers, and they publish it like it is a known fact.

Thadeus I am pleased that you have listened to the arguments put forward. Although we have only scratched the surface.

After that I will defend your right to your views, whatever they may be.

I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Thaddeus · Sep 27, 2003

Plan 9 I said exactly what I felt about Masonry in the beginning., in my own words. Find My post and you will read what I thoughtt about masonry. You don't need to play games with words. You, of all people, should know it because I explained directly to you why I asked about your personal status as a Christian.

If I had any other preconceived ideas about masonry, I'd tell you so.

Thaddeus · Sep 27, 2003

Bill I understand we disagree. I respect you for answering the questions I put to you. I realize that you didn't have to answer them. I don't feel that I got all the info about masonry, but thanks to you I received quite a bit.

Thaddeus · Sep 28, 2003

Rev Wayne said:
Thaddeus,
Exactly how many "Grand Architects" are there?

There is only one God who created everything. Unfortunately, not everyone feels that way.

*None of the following sites have anything to do with Masonry.*

http://www.africawithin.com/kmt/ptah.html
Attributes: Ptah represents the sun at the time when it begins to rise above the horizon and or right after it has risen. As early as the Second Dynasty, he is regarded as a creator god. The patron of architects, artists and sculptors. It was Ptah who built the boats for the souls of the dead to use in the afterlife. In the Book of the Dead we learn that he was a master architect, and responsible for building the framework of the universe. It was said that Ptah created the great metal plate that was the floor of heaven and the roof of the sky. He also constructed the supports that held it up. Some creation legends say that by speaking the names of all things, Ptah caused them to be.

You stated that Jah is God which I agree with. Bul is baal, from my understanding carries 2 definitions. 1) Lord, master 2) the pagan god

*None of the following sites have anything to do with Masonry.*

According to a Christian website. http://www.srr.axbridge.org.uk/chron_intro.html
"Months in the Old Testament are numbered from the month of Passover, which was the first month
8th month Marchesvan (= Bul), "

This site http://www.pick4.com/I/IItim215/calendar_history.html
tells you that the Hebrew word "Bul" means rain.

The pagan god Baal is the raingod. This is readily available knowledge but if you need sources I'll find one. I believe this is why the Hebrews kept worshiping baal, they wanted rains to come for fertility.

What does "on" mean in your opinion?

billmcelligott · Sep 28, 2003

Search for the Jahbulon as descrbed in many critical documents:

JAH
http://www.geocities.com/jah_elvis/

Music by Jah Elvis

BUL
http://www.baal.org.uk/
The British Association for Applied Linguistics

ON
http://www.hon.ch/

Health on the net.

Conclusive proof the word Jahbulon actually means Music by Elvis, linguistics Healthily on the net.

You can make it mean anything you want with a little work.

Thaddeus · Sep 28, 2003

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. Those are the sources I'm going to rely on.

Thaddeus · Sep 28, 2003

1 Kings 6:38 And in the eleventh year, in the month Bul, which is the eighth month, was the house finished throughout all the parts thereof, and according to all the fashion of it. So was he seven years in building it.

Cheshvan means: Eighth
Bul means: Rain - Withering - Increase; produce
http://www.mayimhayim.org/Biblical%20Dates2.htm

Thaddeus · Sep 28, 2003

Plan 9

I'll try to clarify the Baalism issue
From Eastons Biblical Dictionary
http://216.73.100.88/biblestudy/book/dict/b.htm

The name appropriated to the principal male god of the Phoenicians. It is found in several places in the plural BAALIM (Judg. 2:11; 10:10; 1 Ki. 18:18; Jer. 2:23; Hos. 2:17). Baal is identified with Molech (Jer. 19:5). It was known to the Israelites as Baal-peor (Num. 25:3; Dt. 4:3), was worshipped till the time of Samuel (1 Sam 7:4), and was afterwards the religion of the ten tribes in the time of Ahab (1 Ki. 16:31-33; 18:19, 22). It prevailed also for a time in the kingdom of Judah (2 Ki. 8:27; comp. 11:18; 16:3; 2 Chr. 28:2), till finally put an end to by the severe discipline of the Captivity (Zeph. 1:4-6). The priests of Baal were in great numbers (1 Ki. 18:19), and of various classes (2 Ki. 10:19). Their mode of offering sacrifices is described in 1 Ki. 18:25-29. The sun-god, under the general title of Baal, or "lord," was the chief object of worship of the Canaanites. Each locality had its special Baal, and the various local Baals were summed up under the name of Baalim, or "lords." Each Baal had a wife, who was a colourless reflection of himself.

In Hebrew, Baal-im, the suffix, im, means the word is plural.

eliseb · Sep 28, 2003

Quote from Thaddeus:"If ones faith can never be talked about in the lodge, why is so much time spent on learning spiritual things?"

My question exactly? And my answer is just another inconsistency and twist ? I read some information in this order of the eastern star" they aslo have a religious school?Now isn't that nice?

ESTARL. (ESTARL (Eastern Star Training Awards for Religious Leadership), is a scholarship fund for those who are going to school for the purpose of religious training. Each state administers their own ESTARL program. Those wishing to apply for an ESTARL Scholarship should contact the Grand Secretary <../grandsec/frame.html> of the state or province in which they reside.

What is this all about?......I have a question? Do MASONS have their own scriptures they read? Why is the word fraternity used to describe this book when there is so much phoney religious emphasis. I feel it is very sad for a synister group such as this to hide behind Christianity and works of charity. Have any of you read the strory about little red riding hood? Or ever heard,"Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing? Good Lord, I think it's time to go pray again........

eliseb · Sep 28, 2003

Quost from Thadeus:"I'm just learning from data you have made available to me Bill. I just see a flip side to what you're saying. My main concern revolves around the name of God. It's the one real issue I have with Masonry. Most Masonic lodges consider GAOTU to be the same as God."

No kidding? And enough with the RAinbow girls? Have any of you read about the antichrist lately? He's going to look good too and deceive the most elect?After doing wonderful works forhte nations? Just like these fluffy little Masons.Did you know Pagans worship the mother earth? oh how beautiful and flowery? Especially when they all end up in the LAKE OF FIRE!!??A place with no mercy? At least we have chances here to get it straight?I just hope alot of you have read your scripture concerning how hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? This is where you want to end up isn't it?Do masons talk about the Kingdom of Heaven? Or just their meeting agendas and money and organizations?If a person already goes to a church?What is the purpose of becoming a Mason, giving vows, in a Lodge? Churches have all types of charitable groups?United way helps children as well? But there is no affiliation , no type of so called "FRATERNITY?" behind United Way?Where did these Masons get 1.5 billion dollars to build this temple in Washington D.C.? ANd why did this manager I worked for inthe fundraising office for Shriner's Hospital cuss and swear using God's name in vain? Use the "F" word and treat the customers cynically showing us how gullible they are to his total lack of caring forthe children , but just getting the money?A real hustler? Where is the guenine love in this or Christ like behaviour?

Miaka-Chan · Sep 28, 2003

How many people claiming to be christians have you met, eliseb, who have been hypocritical? There are many who profess the faith but do not follow it. The lord even acknowledges thier existance in the they shall call "lord lord' and he will not hear them. In such a way any christian may destroy thier witness such as the one shriner above you described. you cannot base your assession of an organization on one such individual. Such would be like condeming the apostles everytime Peter had a foot in his mouth moment.

Plan 9 · Sep 28, 2003

eliseb said:
Where is the guenine love in this or Christ like behaviour?

Since you sent me a PM ridiculing me for being poor, I would like to ask you the same question, eliseb.

Plan 9 · Sep 28, 2003

Thaddeus said:
Plan 9

I'll try to clarify the Baalism issue.

That isn't the question I asked you, Thaddeus.

billmcelligott · Sep 28, 2003

Thaddeus said:
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. Those are the sources I'm going to rely on.

The original Masonic ritual book was written in English. Arround 1550 to 1650, much in Olde English, copying the memorized versions from 100 years before. Which is totally different from much that we use today.

Lets boil down the basics.
It is not Freemasons that put the emphysis on these words.
Freemasons do not say they are a Religion.
Freemasons do not say they pray to an alternative God.
Fremasons ask for nothing fom the rest of the community.
Freemasons do not tell you what to do with your faith.
Freemasons will help you and your family in time of need.
Freemasons donate exstreme sums to Charitable causes with no expectation of reward.
Fremasons have never asked anyone to leave their Church.

Plan 9 · Sep 28, 2003

billmcelligott said:
The original Masonic ritual book was written in English. Arround 1550 to 1650, much in Olde English, copying the memorized versions from 100 years before. Which is totally different from much that we use today.

Lets boil down the basics.
It is not Freemasons that put the emphysis on these words.
Freemasons do not say they are a Religion.
Freemasons do not say they pray to an alternative God.
Fremasons ask for nothing fom the rest of the community.
Freemasons do not tell you what to do with your faith.
Freemasons will help you and your family in time of need.
Freemasons donate exstreme sums to Charitable causes with no expectation of reward.
Fremasons have never asked anyone to leave their Church.

A fine summary, Bill. Thank you.

I have one addition:

Freemasons don't recruit.

What is a free mason?? /need advice?

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