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What is a " Bible code " ?

FrankDux

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After spending years studying everything from Isaac Newton's work on the Bible, to Mesopotamian languages, scripts and literature, mathematics, and most importantly, proof/s and logic, and how they are used for proving / debunking, I have come to my own conclusions about so called " Bible codes " and numerology

I'd like to share them, but before that, I want to hear from you

Before you answer " What is a Bible code " , however, I want to set a little challenge of my own:

I want you to give your answer to the best of your abilities, without looking anything up on the internet first

I want your answers based solely on what you actually know from memory

Regardless of whether your opinion is educated or not, I want to know what you think

Thanks
 

Andrew4jesus

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After spending years studying everything from Isaac Newton's work on the Bible, to Mesopotamian languages, scripts and literature, mathematics, and most importantly, proof/s and logic, and how they are used for proving / debunking, I have come to my own conclusions about so called " Bible codes " and numerology

I'd like to share them, but before that, I want to hear from you

Before you answer " What is a Bible code " , however, I want to set a little challenge of my own:

I want you to give your answer to the best of your abilities, without looking anything up on the internet first

I want your answers based solely on what you actually know from memory

Regardless of whether your opinion is educated or not, I want to know what you think

Thanks
Sounds to me that a bible code is something made up by men to deceive other men whilst they can still read it and the others can't. Kind of like the Freemasons.
 
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FrankDux

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I kind of throw "Bible code" into the same category as backward masking (!gniksam drawkcab pots) and other controversial ddities that some people are convinced are absolutely true...

ahh yes, the sort of willy-nilly methodology of " anything makes sense when simply strung together "

I too, took the same stance towards such nonsense until I started learning mathematics and began to see " numerology " for what it is
 
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HawgWyld

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ahh yes, the sort of willy-nilly methodology of " anything makes sense when simply strung together "

I too, took the same stance towards such nonsense until I started learning mathematics and began to see " numerology " for what it is

Always open to new ideas -- if I'm wrong, I'm not afraid to admit it.
 
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FrankDux

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At first, I admit I was rather spellbound how somebody, anybody, even, could just seemingly pluck these things out of thin air ( Proof that Obama = 666 and this verse number multiplied by that date equals blah blah = undeniable proof !! ), for in the scriptures, although it does say that God shows people things through the Holy Spirit and angels ( helpers by original definition ), it also says that " hidden things " are only for kings, and more importantly they are

" for the gods ( and God ) to reveal to kings "

This was repeated by the prophet Daniel to the King of Babylon, after first being said to the king by the city's wise men and seers, when asked to explain the dream of the great tree

If there's one thing that people who make outlandish claims about Bible code discoveries, fail to take into account, it's that

Even Newton had to develop an illusion of grandeur and considered himself personally chosen by God, to reveal things, when in fact

...it likely may not be their place to do so

I encountered this with a modern mathematician ( Works in computer science ) who was convinced he had discovered " the divine capstone of God's word ", called it " the biblewheel ", made this huge website, prepared all these diagrams

He was proving somehow, the divine messages in the Bible ( Holy smokes ! )

AND, to boot, he had a degree in mathematics and had also been studying quantum mechanics, and it was upon this that he claimed he / his claim was to be taken seriously

wowsers

...until I pointed out to him that exact same fact, ( he announced a few weeks later he had " debunked himself " and his work )that there's far more reason to believe that " if " ( hypothetically speaking ), there were some sort of " divine " message to be revealed in the Bible that would in turn concretely prove that the book is " divine " in some fashion, in the way that it is undeniable ( Every tongue will confess ), that it logically makes more sense to believe that only God's chosen emissary would be the one to initially reveal it

This includes " opening seals ", and explaining idiomatic phrasing in the prophetic books, and even the interpretation of scripture on the whole

This doesn't necessarily mean what people like Newton and Biblewheel's author discovered / learned of is invalid, however

What it does mean for " bible codes " in general is that any claimant who states they know the objective truth of a book that's claimed to be divine, by way of things that are " hidden ", or perhaps what is known by some as " sod " in Pardes ( Study of the Torah ) or kaballah by others

..is suspect, immediately

My feeling is that if someone could somehow prove, using rigorous proof,( In the sense of a mathematical proof that uses both math and languages, known as " natural and symbolic languages ", ) that's undeniable, to prove something that is by all rational means completely impossible, that they would be able to prove that the Bible is divine even though we all know and accept it's the most heavily edited book in history

In other words

If some person were to reveal something about the book that makes it undeniably divine ( to the whole world ) even though it's put together by the hands of mankind, that person would be none other than Jesus Christ, and nobody but

If you think such a thing is not possible, wouldn't you be second-guessing God's abilities in the first place ?

So there's that argument, just based on logic, and not getting into the horrible " mathematics " numerologists seem to always use
 
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FrankDux

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So, what is a Bible code? Or did I guess right?


Well, that's where the topic needed some serious dissection on my part, because a " code ", in a strict sense, is not what most folks are familiar with as " bible code ", so most folks were using the word incorrectly, which immediately aroused suspicion on my part

Well, that and the fact that everybody's codes and proofs are different, but they each claimed their work was infallible

See, when there is a mathematical truth to be stated with proofs, everybody ends up finding the same things in the proof to be true, given enough time, that's why once a proof is vetted by the community it in pretty much all cases, stays true for ever once it's been simplified to it's best form

Basically, they find the same proof, and then we quote it for eternity, like geometry

So, rabbis doing gematria 1,000 years ago, Isaac Newton, even early Popes, would have discovered them and we would have had plenty of warning which would in turn invalidate prophecy in that they would be able to bypass the " great deception " in the Bible with the knowledge

" Once you know who the Antichrist is you simply refuse the microchip and you're good to go :) saved by the Holy Spirit !! ", ...or so I've been told...

So, there's also that little logic snare to deal with

In other words:

The Bible doesn't say " If you figure out the right " code ' you will bypass jail and immediately pass Go and collect 200$ "

It never says anybody will be able to slip out of the grasp of God's prophecy

Not one time does it say that, in fact it speaks of being deceived by a lying spirit and people loving to have their ears tickled by lies, by people inventing false prophecies..

And we would have countless warnings from sages, rabbis, scribes and wise men dating back to the first recorded scriptures, ( Because there is " biblecode " that old ) it would have been recorded everywhere

" Kissinger is Satan !! " the early popes would have written

Newton would have likely warned us that " Yes we can ! " backwards, sounds like " Thank you Satan " several hundred years before he was born

....and then we would have never voted for Obama and ended up in this FEMA camp missing our heads talking about Bible codes after niburu and....oh wait.....that never happened



So after realizing these things, I realized that the only solution is to really break the topic down and examine each type of so-called " code " that was being presented

In most cases, what was being presented was called " ELS " or " equidistant letter sequences ", which produces madness like



river-balance-bible-prophecy-code.gif




This is where a person picks some arbitrary number, like 87, and starts looking for words spelled out by skipping to every 87th letter

Not only have these been shown to be completely explainable by statistics, even worse, people mix and match English / Greek / Hebrew in their insanity

They have software they buy to do it

These " codes " and phrases can literally be found in ANY book in ANY language with ANY number

Therefore = garbage

( There are a few " anomalies " that were considered by the Journal of Statistics that pertain to a so-called " torah " code, which I discovered something about, which seemed to have been missed by the Journal, but that's another thread.. )



So that right there is 99% of " biblecode " ( ELS codes )

Not only can we exclude most " bible code " based on logic, we can exclude it on sound mathematics

ELS is not a cipher which is a substitution using letters / numbers / symbols which is a " code "

This left the subject of Gematria, which seemed to be an entirely different animal
 
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FrankDux

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So when I started looking at Newton's work, was when I started to examine gematria, because this is what he himself was so fascinated with, and took it upon himself as chosen personally by God, to reveal to mankind

It was described as an " Assyro-Babylonian-Greek cipher adopted by the Jews around the time of Babylonian captivity "

Right away I saw that I was already heading into an area where most modern mathematicians fear to tread

Languages

In all my reading of debunking of Biblecodes by real mathematicians, I never encountered a single one who knew anything about Assyrian, or any other similar language ( Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian, et al ), or for that matter, Hebrew or Greek

I began to wonder how these professional debunker mathematicians could consider themselves beat were they to run up against something that was only allowed to be revealed by God's right hand man, were that to end up being the case

Most mathematicians I know will immediately scoff at the mention of Bible codes, however, as soon as you start talking about cuneiform, they realize how little they actually have looked into the topic

( Something that's always amusing to encounter, imo, because I love seeing somebody who has a formal education realize the extent of their education stops right at their education )

This is humorously known as " Mount Stupid ", a time where they have deluded themselves into an illusory intellectual superiority known as the " Dunning-Kruger effect " ( we've all been there ), essentially declaring victory early, only to be later humbled

Probably feels like sitting in a lake of fire

dunning-kruger-0011.jpg







So I began to examine gematria, and what I discovered was it seemed that it was anybody's game

Once again, no rules, anything works....sloppy methodology at best

Just go ahead and make up any bases,....use any languages.....any book

And Lo and behold, when you take that approach...

Once again you find that you can do the same thing and find the same phrases in ANY book, in ANY language with ANY numbers

Therefore = garbage

Right ?

One would assume so, rubbish should be easy to debunk, right ?




Well, it turns out this is not so simple

Gematria is old....the concept of ciphers are also old


In fact, let's just clarify that gematria is nothing but a run of the mill substitution cipher, and ciphers have been used for ages

there's nothing bunk about that

Codes are indeed legit and we use them all the time




But back to gematria

The first known use of it dates to Sargon II, in 8th century BC, who had the wall of Khorsabad built exactly 16,283 cubits long, because that was the numerical value of his name


Sadly, the site of Khorsabad was partially destroyed by ISIS


_HATRA-IRAQ__3224452c.jpg






However, my point is that it has a history older than most people suspect, and it is when I started looking into the topic I realized that all is not as one would assume

So I started thinking about how ancient rabbis thought of it, and ran across this interesting quote from the second century rabbi Eleazar Chisma:


" The calculation of the equinoxes and gematria are the desserts of wisdom "

This association between metrology ( units and measurement ) and astronomy and a mathematical cipher started to really pique my interest, because this was not the modern picture of gematria I had gotten from just asking around and getting random opinions


This was suddenly a very complex subject that involved astronomy, mathematics, languages and measurement into one system

...and from my studies into Mesopotamian texts like procedural texts ( magic rituals ) and astronomy texts ( omen texts dealing with eclipses and such ), I began to note that the Bible does indeed have a rather heavy bent towards astronomy

..and eclipses, and the holidays and so and on so-forth, and that certain temples were built with what were known as " sacred " units

...which were not in possession of anybody except the priesthood / ruling party, which when you go back far enough into Mesopotamian history, the king was also the High Priest AND the astronomer ( The Garden of the Stars in Sumerian literature , for example )

And it is the existence of the " sacred " and likely hidden units that adds yet another level of complexity into the topic

It's quite common I have somebody " prove " to me, using something like a Wikipedia quote, that " such and such unit - whether it's a nautical mile or a second or a foot, did not exist in Mesopotamia, yet they do not know anything about Mesopotamian systems of metrology aside from what they just Googled

As I have shown ( in some other threads ), units like cubits were indeed to build both temples on earth and at the same time used to measure things like eclipses

They were used above

They were used below

And, most importantly, the old Mesopotamian system of gematria had a hard and fast set of bases

It was not a collection of " add whatever you want to whatever and multiply it " babbling, much like the product of modern proponents of gematria, it was robust, and complex, and involved some very difficult topics

I mean, I had encountered 0 mathematicians who actually have books on the mathematical astronomy of the Sumerians, the Akkadians, the Babylonians, et al, or their different writing systems and so on

Some of those books cost more than 500$ each

Gematria, as it was turning out, was a very robust subject that had been covered up by years of listening to people who loudly proclaimed they had it all figured out
 
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FrankDux

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Well, I feel like maybe you are asking me to sum it up into something can be easily dismissed, and truthfully, I cannot

Especially with what I haven't gotten into yet

So, have a little patience, I have some other things to do and will come back to this a little later tonight or tomorrow
 
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