What if?

116-FOTU

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I was thinking. What if through divine intervention God inspired a man to write a Bible the told of God's works after Jesus' death until today. I wonder who would be today's Moses and Noah and stuff like that. I can bet Abraham Lincoln, Hitler, and other famous men in history would be in there, and many that we may have never heard of. ^_^
 
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I was thinking. What if through divine intervention God inspired a man to write a Bible the told of God's works after Jesus' death until today.
Whoever the man was, he would be considered crazy and people would ignore him. They'd probably throw him in jail too or he'd be sued in court. That's what happens when God picks you to bring Good news to the people. Its part of the job.
 
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miamited

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Hi Fotu,

God may actually have done that and it was written along with everything else. Now, I know that there will be many who disagree and I'm not completely accepting of the idea myself, but it is worth studying and doing some research before making careless judgment, but there is now, through the use of computers, an equidistant 'code' of Hebrew symbols that spell out many of the names of history since Jesus' ascension. The regularity of the 'code' found only in the Penteteuch has not been duplicated in any other book. Even the remaining inspired Scriptures such as the books of wisdom and the prophets and the New Testament writings do not hold the same regularity of 'code'.

I have heard many claim that you can take any book and find such things, but the information that I read said that it had been tested against many other books and as yet nothing that matches it. The very programs used to read through the Masoretic Text and find these names, places and events that we now know have some historical value has been used with thousands of other texts with no regularity of pattern appearing. Now, that is not to say that you can't take the 'Catcher in the Rye' and run through it and find a 'word' spelled out somewhere in it through equidistant letter spacing, but there is no series of words. In the Torah we find whole phrases regarding what are now historical events to us using equidistant letter spacing. It's really quite a phenomenon and I would encourage any who may be interested, such as the OP who wonders whether God would write a 'bible' about things happening since Jesus day, to look into it.

Of course we do know of one source that God has written regarding events that will happen after Jesus' ascension and that is the Revelation. Depending on how one understands the description and time of events revealed in the Revelation, it may well be telling us of things that have been happening since Jesus left us to return to the Father. I personally, when reading of the four horseman, understand that that event happened shortly after Jesus left us.

Just a quick overview if anyone is interested. After the letters to the churches we find John standing in heaven and he sees God seated on His throne with a scroll in his right hand. He hears an angel asking if there is anyone worthy to open the scroll and it appears that there isn't anyone and this makes John cry. However, then we read that one of the elders says to John, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.

Now, let's stop and try to observe what John is seeing. He sees a scroll and it is rolled up and apparently has seven seals that hold it sealed as a roll. In order to open the scroll, the seven seals must be removed first. Before anything can be read on the scroll, which has writing on the front and back, these seven seals must be removed. The elder tells John that Jesus has overcome and is able to take the scroll from the hand of God and open it. We know it is Jesus because the elder refers to him as the Old Testament also refers to Messiah. The 'Lion of the tribe of Judah, the 'Root of David' - both Old Testament references to Jesus. The elder tells John that Jesus has triumphed. When did Jesus triumph? When He was raised from the dead Jesus told his disciples, "Do not be afraid for I have overcome." We should, therefore, understand that Jesus' triumph was when God raised him from the dead and he walked out of that tomb. So, if that was the moment of Jesus' triumph, then we also know that when John saw this vision somewhere around 90 AD, Jesus was at that time able to begin opening the scroll by removing the seals.

Ok, the word also proclaims that this revelation is showing what must 'soon' take place (Rev. 1:1) Bible scholars and believers the world over have argued why it seems that God's word says 'soon' but it seems to be taking an awfully long time. Well, lets' continue and see if things might not have started 'soon'.

Jesus is now able to open the seals that hold the scroll securely closed. In the first sentence of chapter 6 we read that Jesus, the Lamb, opened the first seal. Out comes a white horse with a rider holding a bow and he is given a crown and rides out as a conquerer bent on conquest. Some say that this portrays the final anti-christ and that this event is happening as the Antichrist is revealed. I respectfully disagree. I believe that the rider on the white horse who was given a crown and rides out to conquer, is Jesus! Jesus rides the white horse and to this day, from the day of his ascension into heaven, the gospel has gone out like a conquerer to conquer the wicked hearts of men. He started by sending out his disciples with the great commission and then later enlisted the help of Paul and many of the first new believers and all of them were commissioned to "Go! Go into all nations baptizing and teaching them all that I have commanded you." This commission was given by the rider on the white horse and very shortly after Jesus' ascension into heaven it began to spread and conquer and steal the souls of men from the pit of Satan. That is the white horse and his rider and he 'rides' upon the earth still to this day as a conquerer.

Then the Lamb opens the second seal and a fiery red horse comes out with its rider. This rider wields a very large sword and his purpose is to take peace from the earth and make men slay each other. Well, shortly after Jesus and his gospel began to conquer the hearts of men, we have had a great increase in wars and it is difficult to find any nation that is at peace. The rider on the red horse, just as the rider on the white horse, have been riding upon the earth now for some 2,000 years doing just what they were each commissioned to do.

Then we have the third horseman revealed and he sits upon a black horse and he wields the power of, what quite frankly looks suspiciously like commercialism and profiteering. And seems to hold oil and wine as sacred, much like today we hold oil and alcohol as the most valuable commodities on the earth. Granted, this one does take a bit of 'vision' to see its implications today, but I'm convinced that just like the command from the four living creatures to this horseman to not damage the oil and the wine, we also hold these commodities in higher regard than food. We have also become a world that generally feels that food needs to be paid for and a profit must be made. There is ample proof that the world produces enough food stuffs to feed every man, woman and child upon the earth. Yet, there are people starving in some areas. Why? Because they can't afford to buy our barley. Yes, we have some organizations that gather together and try to give food away, but we still have people starving in a world with an abundance of food. Those organizations that do this humanitarian work of giving food away must themselves go throughout the world begging and buying with donations the food that they give away. It is surely not a godly system and I can see how this 'system' would relate to this third horseman.

Finally, we have the fourth horseman and his horse is pale and this horseman has a name, 'Death'. Following closely behind Death, is Hades. Hades is the holding place of the dead until judgment. We read in the final chapters of the Revelation that God is going to call everyone to judgment and it specifically says in chapter 22, 'and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them.' I think it fairly easy to see how this Death and Hades have been riding along the earth and filling up with lost souls to await judgment. Then we are told that this horseman is given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. It would be curious to know, on a percentage basis, how many people, since shortly after Jesus left us, have been killed by wars, famines, plagues (and I would certainly be inclined to include natural disasters in this count) and wild beasts. We certainly know that millions upon millions have been killed in all the wars fought on the earth since Jesus' day. We certainly know that millions upon millions have been killed by famine, plague and natural disaster and I'm sure that a great number have been mauled by tigers, biten by snakes, thrashed by alligators, etc.

When we come to the fifth seal, and it I think it well to consider that these seals are not necessarily being opened up, zip, zip, zip just one right after the other in a quick or speedy time frame, but very possibly the first seal is opened and then after a passage of time the second seal is opened and then after some more time passes the third, etc. Or it could be that the first four seals, which seem to have some similarities in what John sees happeing, could be opened fairly quickly together and then some time passes before the fifth seal. This would mean that by the time we get to the fifth seal we may be several years, possibly even hundreds of years later. I really can't even begin to guess at the timeframe of the opening of each seal other than to say that it may well have happened long before today. So, we find that the fifth seal reveals the righteous ones of God asking how long it will be before their deaths are avenged. The answer is that it is not quite yet time. That there is yet a 'number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.'

Now, we reach the sixth seal and I'm not sure that this seal has been opened yet. If we understand that the scroll holds the judgments of God, then we know that the scroll is not yet fully able to be opened because it would seem that once all seven seals are removed, then the scroll is unrolled and God's wrath begins to pour out upon the earth. Even the account in the Revelation would seem to suggest that there is a great amount of time between the sixth seal and the seventh seal. We find a number of events happening between the opening of these last two seals and so we may now be in the period of time between the fifth seal and the sixth seal being opened. Or, we could be between the fourth and fifth. I'm not sure that there is any visible indication that we might see that would tell us that the fifth seal has been opened yet or not.

Anyway, this is longer than I intended, but I encourage anyone to take this and follow it along with the account of the opening of the seven seals and see if there might be some agreement or 'provable' disagreement that this opening of the seals did begin 'soon' after Jesus' ascension and would therefore be why God gave his Son this Revelation to be handed over to John when He did. There is good reason, I believe, to understand the Revelation as a continuing unfolding of future events beginning with the days of John and ending with the final days of our reward.

God bless each one.
In Christ, Ted
 
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116-FOTU

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Whoever the man was, he would be considered crazy and people would ignore him. They'd probably throw him in jail too or he'd be sued in court. That's what happens when God picks you to bring Good news to the people. Its part of the job.

Oh yeah i could see that happening, but i think it would be a fascinating read.
 
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116-FOTU

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Hi Fotu,

God may actually have done that and it was written along with everything else. Now, I know that there will be many who disagree and I'm not completely accepting of the idea myself, but it is worth studying and doing some research before making careless judgment, but there is now, through the use of computers, an equidistant 'code' of Hebrew symbols that spell out many of the names of history since Jesus' ascension. The regularity of the 'code' found only in the Penteteuch has not been duplicated in any other book. Even the remaining inspired Scriptures such as the books of wisdom and the prophets and the New Testament writings do not hold the same regularity of 'code'.

I have heard many claim that you can take any book and find such things, but the information that I read said that it had been tested against many other books and as yet nothing that matches it. The very programs used to read through the Masoretic Text and find these names, places and events that we now know have some historical value has been used with thousands of other texts with no regularity of pattern appearing. Now, that is not to say that you can't take the 'Catcher in the Rye' and run through it and find a 'word' spelled out somewhere in it through equidistant letter spacing, but there is no series of words. In the Torah we find whole phrases regarding what are now historical events to us using equidistant letter spacing. It's really quite a phenomenon and I would encourage any who may be interested, such as the OP who wonders whether God would write a 'bible' about things happening since Jesus day, to look into it.

Of course we do know of one source that God has written regarding events that will happen after Jesus' ascension and that is the Revelation. Depending on how one understands the description and time of events revealed in the Revelation, it may well be telling us of things that have been happening since Jesus left us to return to the Father. I personally, when reading of the four horseman, understand that that event happened shortly after Jesus left us.

Just a quick overview if anyone is interested. After the letters to the churches we find John standing in heaven and he sees God seated on His throne with a scroll in his right hand. He hears an angel asking if there is anyone worthy to open the scroll and it appears that there isn't anyone and this makes John cry. However, then we read that one of the elders says to John, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.

Now, let's stop and try to observe what John is seeing. He sees a scroll and it is rolled up and apparently has seven seals that hold it sealed as a roll. In order to open the scroll, the seven seals must be removed first. Before anything can be read on the scroll, which has writing on the front and back, these seven seals must be removed. The elder tells John that Jesus has overcome and is able to take the scroll from the hand of God and open it. We know it is Jesus because the elder refers to him as the Old Testament also refers to Messiah. The 'Lion of the tribe of Judah, the 'Root of David' - both Old Testament references to Jesus. The elder tells John that Jesus has triumphed. When did Jesus triumph? When He was raised from the dead Jesus told his disciples, "Do not be afraid for I have overcome." We should, therefore, understand that Jesus' triumph was when God raised him from the dead and he walked out of that tomb. So, if that was the moment of Jesus' triumph, then we also know that when John saw this vision somewhere around 90 AD, Jesus was at that time able to begin opening the scroll by removing the seals.

Ok, the word also proclaims that this revelation is showing what must 'soon' take place (Rev. 1:1) Bible scholars and believers the world over have argued why it seems that God's word says 'soon' but it seems to be taking an awfully long time. Well, lets' continue and see if things might not have started 'soon'.

Jesus is now able to open the seals that hold the scroll securely closed. In the first sentence of chapter 6 we read that Jesus, the Lamb, opened the first seal. Out comes a white horse with a rider holding a bow and he is given a crown and rides out as a conquerer bent on conquest. Some say that this portrays the final anti-christ and that this event is happening as the Antichrist is revealed. I respectfully disagree. I believe that the rider on the white horse who was given a crown and rides out to conquer, is Jesus! Jesus rides the white horse and to this day, from the day of his ascension into heaven, the gospel has gone out like a conquerer to conquer the wicked hearts of men. He started by sending out his disciples with the great commission and then later enlisted the help of Paul and many of the first new believers and all of them were commissioned to "Go! Go into all nations baptizing and teaching them all that I have commanded you." This commission was given by the rider on the white horse and very shortly after Jesus' ascension into heaven it began to spread and conquer and steal the souls of men from the pit of Satan. That is the white horse and his rider and he 'rides' upon the earth still to this day as a conquerer.

Then the Lamb opens the second seal and a fiery red horse comes out with its rider. This rider wields a very large sword and his purpose is to take peace from the earth and make men slay each other. Well, shortly after Jesus and his gospel began to conquer the hearts of men, we have had a great increase in wars and it is difficult to find any nation that is at peace. The rider on the red horse, just as the rider on the white horse, have been riding upon the earth now for some 2,000 years doing just what they were each commissioned to do.

Then we have the third horseman revealed and he sits upon a black horse and he wields the power of, what quite frankly looks suspiciously like commercialism and profiteering. And seems to hold oil and wine as sacred, much like today we hold oil and alcohol as the most valuable commodities on the earth. Granted, this one does take a bit of 'vision' to see its implications today, but I'm convinced that just like the command from the four living creatures to this horseman to not damage the oil and the wine, we also hold these commodities in higher regard than food. We have also become a world that generally feels that food needs to be paid for and a profit must be made. There is ample proof that the world produces enough food stuffs to feed every man, woman and child upon the earth. Yet, there are people starving in some areas. Why? Because they can't afford to buy our barley. Yes, we have some organizations that gather together and try to give food away, but we still have people starving in a world with an abundance of food. Those organizations that do this humanitarian work of giving food away must themselves go throughout the world begging and buying with donations the food that they give away. It is surely not a godly system and I can see how this 'system' would relate to this third horseman.

Finally, we have the fourth horseman and his horse is pale and this horseman has a name, 'Death'. Following closely behind Death, is Hades. Hades is the holding place of the dead until judgment. We read in the final chapters of the Revelation that God is going to call everyone to judgment and it specifically says in chapter 22, 'and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them.' I think it fairly easy to see how this Death and Hades have been riding along the earth and filling up with lost souls to await judgment. Then we are told that this horseman is given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. It would be curious to know, on a percentage basis, how many people, since shortly after Jesus left us, have been killed by wars, famines, plagues (and I would certainly be inclined to include natural disasters in this count) and wild beasts. We certainly know that millions upon millions have been killed in all the wars fought on the earth since Jesus' day. We certainly know that millions upon millions have been killed by famine, plague and natural disaster and I'm sure that a great number have been mauled by tigers, biten by snakes, thrashed by alligators, etc.

When we come to the fifth seal, and it I think it well to consider that these seals are not necessarily being opened up, zip, zip, zip just one right after the other in a quick or speedy time frame, but very possibly the first seal is opened and then after a passage of time the second seal is opened and then after some more time passes the third, etc. Or it could be that the first four seals, which seem to have some similarities in what John sees happeing, could be opened fairly quickly together and then some time passes before the fifth seal. This would mean that by the time we get to the fifth seal we may be several years, possibly even hundreds of years later. I really can't even begin to guess at the timeframe of the opening of each seal other than to say that it may well have happened long before today. So, we find that the fifth seal reveals the righteous ones of God asking how long it will be before their deaths are avenged. The answer is that it is not quite yet time. That there is yet a 'number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.'

Now, we reach the sixth seal and I'm not sure that this seal has been opened yet. If we understand that the scroll holds the judgments of God, then we know that the scroll is not yet fully able to be opened because it would seem that once all seven seals are removed, then the scroll is unrolled and God's wrath begins to pour out upon the earth. Even the account in the Revelation would seem to suggest that there is a great amount of time between the sixth seal and the seventh seal. We find a number of events happening between the opening of these last two seals and so we may now be in the period of time between the fifth seal and the sixth seal being opened. Or, we could be between the fourth and fifth. I'm not sure that there is any visible indication that we might see that would tell us that the fifth seal has been opened yet or not.

Anyway, this is longer than I intended, but I encourage anyone to take this and follow it along with the account of the opening of the seven seals and see if there might be some agreement or 'provable' disagreement that this opening of the seals did begin 'soon' after Jesus' ascension and would therefore be why God gave his Son this Revelation to be handed over to John when He did. There is good reason, I believe, to understand the Revelation as a continuing unfolding of future events beginning with the days of John and ending with the final days of our reward.

God bless each one.
In Christ, Ted

I really want to read this but i do not have enough time right now but once i do i will gladly reply
 
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John S

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FOTU - If I understand your question, I believe that many people were used by God to further His ends. As I have stated before, I believe, wholeheartedly, in the prephecies of Jacob, regarding the Tribes of Israel, in Genesis, Chapter 49.
God's plan HAD to unfold.
Just using the United States, a MAJOR role in God's plan was performed by George Washington in founding this nation - so that His promise of a great, powerful nation for the Tribes of Joseph and his sons, whom Jacob adopted, could be fulfilled.
As you mentioned, Abraham Lincoln would have been another one of those people, along with every American President from John Adams to Barack Obama.
This would also include Martin Luther King and all of the other heroes of our nation.
Every American war was fought for this same reason. God's plan for this nation continues to be fulfilled to this day.

Those are my opinions.
 
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ashout

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it would start out like this: "in 1492, columbus sailed the ocean blue"

just kidding. yeah that would be a good book i should think, but it should be noted that God DIDNT do that, so it must be better that it doesn't happen.

el fin
 
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Biker Angel

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I disagree, the whole point of it being a Bible is to show all of the miracles God performed in our time.

Like which ones in particular do you mean? Cause I was talking about real walk on water type miracles or the raising of the dead. We don't see that happening now days.:cool:
 
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ashout

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Like which ones in particular do you mean? Cause I was talking about real walk on water type miracles or the raising of the dead. We don't see that happening now days.:cool:

you dont see those miracles happening.

I can only imagine that in Jesus time there was this guy who was out of the loop and didn't know about the miracles saying "there arn't miracles any more" meanwhile Jesus was doing all sorts of things.

and i'm not mad at you or anything, i'm just trying to make you understand, THERE ARE MIRACLES TODAY INCLUDING RAISING THE DEAD
 
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116-FOTU

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FOTU - If I understand your question, I believe that many people were used by God to further His ends. As I have stated before, I believe, wholeheartedly, in the prephecies of Jacob, regarding the Tribes of Israel, in Genesis, Chapter 49.
God's plan HAD to unfold.
Just using the United States, a MAJOR role in God's plan was performed by George Washington in founding this nation - so that His promise of a great, powerful nation for the Tribes of Joseph and his sons, whom Jacob adopted, could be fulfilled.
As you mentioned, Abraham Lincoln would have been another one of those people, along with every American President from John Adams to Barack Obama.
This would also include Martin Luther King and all of the other heroes of our nation.
Every American war was fought for this same reason. God's plan for this nation continues to be fulfilled to this day.

Those are my opinions.

I agree I think America is a very blessed nation and all American heroes were sent by God. :)
 
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116-FOTU

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Like which ones in particular do you mean? Cause I was talking about real walk on water type miracles or the raising of the dead. We don't see that happening now days.:cool:

Well yeah you have a point but who knows how many miracles are still being performed everyday without our knowledge? For all we know someone somewhere has probably walked on water, but was told by God not to tell anyone. I do see what you mean though and I think you're right these days there aren't as many miracles as there were in the Bible days. I kinda think that science is to blame. Like if God were to perform these miracles science would find some way to disprove it as a miracle.
 
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