What if you seek and don't find?

[Oncedeceived]

Sorry for missing the point... Not intentional I promise.
So looking at some of those criteria I am not sure what you meant by how it is confirmed so I will leave that for now. On the others do you think how a belief arose necessarily determine if it is true or that when a belief arose (first - before another idea or after another idea) is a reliable way of determining it's truth?

Before I answer this could you please let me ask you something? I guess you have no choice. When you were trying to show how the Bible and God were real to your family members how did you determine that it wasn't stacking up?

 

[Athée]

Before I answer this could you please let me ask you something? I guess you have no choice. When you were trying to show how the Bible and God were real to your family members how did you determine that it wasn't stacking up?

Ask away! Um... Tough to recall if there was one specific thing. I remember reading the anthologies edited by John Lotus and then reading my way though the references and bibliographies. I was part of a fairly literalist denomination so some of the things like genesis story, Noah etc became problematic as I actually looked into what scientists had to say about the observable data. The problem of the reliability of the new testament.... Once I started to question the underlying structures of my faith it kind of snowballed from there.

 

[Davian]

You are missing my point. Their experience is much different than that of the Christian, but leaving that for the moment it comes back to how does one determine truth? When there are two differing positions and they both can't be right due to the beliefs of each being opposed to the other, one must look at how both are confirmed. How they both came about, which came first and many many variables within.

Or, they could both be wrong. Certainty is no indication of veracity.

 

[AV1611VET]

Once I started to question the underlying structures of my faith it kind of snowballed from there.

Solomon said:

Ecclesiastes 1:13a And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven:

Scientists say:

Muse 1:13a And I gave my heart to seek and search out by science concerning all things that are done under heaven:

 

[rockytopva]

I was brought up in a dysfunctional home. When I was 12 I got a paper route. When I was 16 I went to work at a restaurant. When I was 18 I went to work at a factory and would put up hay. I graduated like 325 out of a class of 334. They graduated me to get rid of me.

I have been out of debt for ten years and have made $100,000 off the stock market in 2013-14. I have also went back school in the form of the community college and have gotten me two AAS degrees Magna Cum Laude, with the Who's Who award and one first place at a University programming contest. I would have went in for my bachelors but my weak skills in English would prevent that.

I sought, I found, I profited... And this is Rockytopva reminding the folk that... You don't have any trouble! All you need is faith in God!

 

[Davian]

...
And I'm still curious as to why you gave up all those benefits to become an atheist.

Are you implying that belief is a conscious choice?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you implying that belief is a conscious choice?

I'm asking why someone gave up five powerful benefits to become an atheist.

 

[Davian]

I'm asking why someone gave up five powerful benefits to become an atheist.

Does that question not imply that belief is a conscious choice?

 

[AV1611VET]

Does that question not imply that belief is a conscious choice?

To be honest, I don't quite understand your question.

Neither do I care to.

I asked someone if he gave up the following benefits:

1. once enlightened
2. tasted of the heavenly gift
3. made a partaker of the Holy Ghost
4. tasted the good word of God
5. tasted the powers of the world to come

... to become an atheist because of science.

It's not a trick question -- and the answer is either YES or NO.

Is that alright with you?

 

[HitchSlap]

I'm asking why someone gave up five powerful benefits to become an atheist.

I guess the trade off is worth it.

 

[Athée]

I was brought up in a dysfunctional home. When I was 12 I got a paper route. When I was 16 I went to work at a restaurant. When I was 18 I went to work at a factory and would put up hay. I graduated like 325 out of a class of 334. They graduated me to get rid of me.

I have been out of debt for ten years and have made $100,000 off the stock market in 2013-14. I have also went back school in the form of the community college and have gotten me two AAS degrees Magna Cum Laude, with the Who's Who award and one first place at a University programming contest. I would have went in for my bachelors but my weak skills in English would prevent that.

I sought, I found, I profited... And this is Rockytopva reminding the folk that... You don't have any trouble! All you need is faith in God!

What about the people who put faith in God and loose everything in the stock market? I think the Bible is pretty clear that faith in God is not synonymous with worldy wealth and success... But this is a bit off topic

 

[Davian]

To be honest, I don't quite understand your question.

Neither do I care to.

I asked someone if he gave up the following benefits:

1. once enlightened
2. tasted of the heavenly gift
3. made a partaker of the Holy Ghost
4. tasted the good word of God
5. tasted the powers of the world to come

... to become an atheist because of science.

It's not a trick question -- and the answer is either YES or NO.

Is that alright with you?

Sure.

Do you consider belief to be a conscious choice?

 

[AV1611VET]

I guess the trade off is worth it.

I suppose so.

Hedonistic calculus doesn't always work, does it?

 

[Athée]

To be honest, I don't quite understand your question.

Neither do I care to.

I asked someone if he gave up the following benefits:

1. once enlightened
2. tasted of the heavenly gift
3. made a partaker of the Holy Ghost
4. tasted the good word of God
5. tasted the powers of the world to come

... to become an atheist because of science.

It's not a trick question -- and the answer is either YES or NO.

Is that alright with you?

Speaking as the one he asked.... I would say that beliefs are not a matter of conscious choice. We are either convinced or not that a proposition is true or likely true.
Was science a part of me changing my views... Yes, absolutely it was, so too was philosophy. Not sure how that helps though.
Still hoping you will answer that question about the confidence for yourself

 

[AV1611VET]

Still hoping you will answer that question about the confidence for yourself

Do you mind asking it again ... in an easy-to-answer format?

 

[rockytopva]

What about the people who put faith in God and loose everything in the stock market? I think the Bible is pretty clear that faith in God is not synonymous with worldy wealth and success... But this is a bit off topic

There are some folk who are waiting for the great heavenly jet in the sky to come and write words of clouds of what they need to do to find their answers. Then you have others who just go out and do it.

 

[Athée]

Do you mind asking it again ... in an easy-to-answer format?

No problem.

My question assumes that you believe in a God and asks on a scale of 0 to 100 where 0 is all doubt and no confidence and 100 being all confidence and no doubt where would you put yourself on the question of your God's existence?

 

[Athée]

There are some folk who are waiting for the great heavenly jet in the sky to come and write words of clouds of what they need to do to find their answers. Then you have others who just go out and do it.

Can you think of any examples in the Bible where a disciple or apostle who is doing God's will has bad things happen to him or her? Or where one of those people is not described as rich and successful?

 

[AV1611VET]

No problem.

My question assumes that you believe in a God and asks on a scale of 0 to 100 where 0 is all doubt and no confidence and 100 being all confidence and no doubt where would you put yourself on the question of your God's existence?

110

 

[rockytopva]

Can you think of any examples in the Bible where a disciple or apostle who is doing God's will has bad things happen to him or her? Or where one of those people is not described as rich and successful?

Prosperity came upon me from walking the way. Whether I did bad or well I would have walked the way either way. Granted not every one is going to get rich following God, but if he sends prosperity I am going to enjoy and be thankful for it.