What if racism is an evolutionary response?

OldWiseGuy · Dec 25, 2020

Arc F1 said:
I got lots of both.

My parents would be put in jail for child abuse today. Of course after they met me they would be released.

pitabread · Dec 25, 2020

Zaymer said:
Yes, Germans under Hitler (who was influenced by the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute's views on evolution and eugenics) vyed to try conquer more resources and eliminate competition; the West allied with the Soviets to eliminate/wipe out their common enemy, the Germans, but afterward their alliance broke down into animosity, each seeking the upper-hand over the other.

The point though is that outright conflict/domination isn't the logical end game. The outcome in this instance is that it didn't actually work.

It doesn't make sense to conclude that domination/elimination is the strict end goal of survival of the fittest. It isn't.

Zaymer · Dec 25, 2020

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
But it's not a facet of evolutionary biology. It's an abstraction of the group, yes, but only because the human mind evolves to say that we need politics.

Clausewitz: Politics is war by other means.
Sun Tzu: The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Dec 25, 2020

Zaymer said:
Clausewitz: Politics is war by other means
Sun Tzu: The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.

I've read Sun Tzu (somewhat), and that has nothing to do with the fact that politics is not a part of evolutionary biology.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Dec 25, 2020

Arc F1 said:
I think a lot of what we are seeing now is coming from the lack of employment. Automation and offshore manufacturing is taking a toll on our country. People need someone to blame and racial tension will probably only get worse. The unemployment numbers don't tell the real story. So many are completely out of the work force.

I mean... you are not really wrong. If we look throughout history, whenever there were problems with labour and such, the group that was always seen as 'the other' was always the group that ended up taking the brunt of the blame and that often lead to horrible things.
I mean, look at the history of the Jews in Europe. Enough said.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 25, 2020

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
I like how you said 'baloney' first. And no, it is both a mix of without and within. We are all guilty of it, but any stereotyping of a racial group from without will always lead to racism.

Sometimes you can't help but make generalizations. That's what they do about themselves. In fact black commentators have mastered the art of generalizing about racism.

Arc F1 · Dec 25, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
My parents would be put in jail for child abuse today.

And people wonder what went wrong with the world. All we have to do is look at the changes in society. We stopped punishment, we became more tolerant and stopped telling our kids about the American dream. We started supporting cheap labor and the heck with our neighbors as long as we had more. Selfishness really has grown over the last few years.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Dec 25, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Sometimes you can't help but make generalizations. That's what they do about themselves. Who are we to argue?

So it's not racist to say that all blacks are criminals because they have a large number of incarceration rates while they make up a lower number of the population in the US?
It's not racist to say that all Latinos in the southern US have to be members of gangs because of the actions of Mexican-led drug groups and cartels operating in the southern US?
It's not racist to say that all Native Americans are alcoholics because Native Americans have the highest percentage of alcoholics despite being a smaller population?

Zaymer · Dec 25, 2020

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
has nothing to do with the fact that politics is not a part of evolutionary biology.

Look underneath the surface; ensuring survival, control of resources, and the propagation of genetics has everything to do with evolutionary biology

OldWiseGuy · Dec 25, 2020

Arc F1 said:
And people wonder what went wrong with the world. All we have to do is look at the changes in society. We stopped punishment, we became more tolerant and stopped telling our kids about the American dream. We started supporting cheap labor and the heck with our neighbors as long as we had more. Selfishness really has grown over the last few years.

I think the great wedge has been education. A new set of values has been imposed on us that divides us down the middle.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 25, 2020

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
So it's not racist to say that all blacks are criminals because they have a large number of incarceration rates while they make up a lower number of the population in the US?
It's not racist to say that all Latinos in the southern US have to be members of gangs because of the actions of Mexican-led drug groups and cartels operating in the southern US?
It's not racist to say that all Native Americans are alcoholics because Native Americans have the highest percentage of alcoholics despite being a smaller population?

Who says that?

They have more problems than just those. Generally speaking their problem is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Dec 25, 2020

Zaymer said:
Look underneath the surface; ensuring survival, control of resources, and the propagation of genetics has everything to do with evolutionary biology

There is not evolutionary way to explain the desire to mass-murder a specific group of people based on a difference of religion or race.
And since we're sharing quotes: He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. Matthew 26, 26:52.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Dec 25, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Who says that?

They have more problems than just those. Generally speaking their problem is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Those are common stereotypes and racist views that I've seen over the years held with those specific groups in the US.

And how is 'their problem' trying to fit a square peg in a round hole? What do you mean by that statement?

Zaymer · Dec 25, 2020

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
There is not evolutionary way to explain the desire to mass-murder a specific group of people based on a difference of religion or race.
And since we're sharing quotes: He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. Matthew 26, 26:52.

Just because I am able to discuss why these things play out as they do from an evolutionary biological stand-point, which I said in the beginning has satanic ramifications, doesn't necessarily mean I support it. If you cannot understand how survival, control of resources, and continued propagation of genetics is integral to evolutionary biology then I cannot help you.

pitabread · Dec 25, 2020

Zaymer said:
Look underneath the surface; ensuring survival, control of resources, and the propagation of genetics has everything to do with evolutionary biology

That doesn't mean the logical outcome or end-goal is destruction. Especially since violent conflict is at odds with the idea of survival and propagation of genetics (if one is dead).

Warden_of_the_Storm · Dec 25, 2020

Zaymer said:
Just because I am able to discuss why these things play out as they do from an evolutionary biological stand-point, which I said in the beginning has satanic ramifications, doesn't necessarily mean I support it. If you cannot understand how survival, control of resources, and continued propagation of genetics is integral to evolutionary biology then I cannot help you.

You weren't discussing anything. You were just throwing around the horrible things that people have done and gone "... evolution."

Zaymer · Dec 25, 2020

pitabread said:
That doesn't mean the logical outcome or end-goal is destruction. Especially since violent conflict is at odds with the idea of survival and propagation of genetics (if one is dead).

It is the logical extreme, there is no competition if the competition does not exist (because you've eliminated it).
Sun Tzu agrees with you, that it is better to subvert and overcome your enemy without fighting whatsoever (this is where politics and propaganda, business deals, etc play their roles), but the goal of control/power remains the same.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Dec 25, 2020

Zaymer said:
It is the logical extreme, there is no competition if the competition does not exist (because you've eliminated it).

No, because you then just create new competition from within your own group which then leads to self-destruction and extinction.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 25, 2020

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Those are common stereotypes and racist views that I've seen over the years held with those specific groups in the US.

And how is 'their problem' trying to fit a square peg in a round hole? What do you mean by that statement?

In the case of blacks they are trying to make an Afro-centric culture successfully integrate financially and socially into an Anglo/Euro-centric financial/social culture.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Dec 25, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
In the case of blacks they are trying to make an Afro-centric culture successfully integrate financially and socially into an Anglo-European financial/social culture.

And that is racist.

What if racism is an evolutionary response?

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