What if no matter how hard you try you can't believe in God

[gracealone]

Your heart is mainly tortured by this awful disorder which keeps you flipping back and forth from one side to the other. Every time you flip over to the supposed "athiest" side. You freak out. Why is that? How can an athiest freak out about being an athiest. Completely illogical. But it sure feels like it's real - doesn't it?
I'll bet when some of these posts suggested that you might really be becoming an athiest and that your eternal state was "on the line" that you really freaked out. I know when I was deep into my "Oh NO! I think I'm becoming an athiest" theme something like that would have totally knocked the wind out of me.
But in a way, I suppose that was some good exposure for you, so long as you don't hit back.
How's it going with the therapist? What is she having you do for homework. There should be homework if she's doing her job.
Love you,
Mitzi

I know that if God exists he knows my heart but I don't know my heart because I want to believe and also don't because I doubt he is there so much a athiest in me saying dont try to prove he is there u know he isnt. Then there is the part that says maybe he is. My heart is mainly athiestic.

 

[raven1]

I really do think God is harder to believe in. Him creating out of nothing makes no sense to me. It makes more sense it was always there. Part of me doesn't want to believe in God because he does seem illogical but part of me thinks what if he is there. When this first started it was what if he isn't. I am losing my faith.

I look at atheist and agnostic material all the time to see if they make more sense. In fact for the past couple of days I have been fighting th urge to read these things so I am not forsaking God but part of me wants to know what I really believe.

 

[raven1]

Yep homework and in two weeks maybe exposure therapy.

 

[jesuslover94]

Don't give up. I know what you're going through because I have bad OCD too. And God has let me know He's still here with me, even if it doesn't feel like it at times. And I'm trusting Him to get me through it. So hang in there. Keep talking to Him and trust Him to bring you through.

 

[gracealone]

Good! Stick with it. You've nothing to lose by doing the therapy and everything to gain. No matter how hard it is to do and even though it may seem like the instictive opposite of what you feel you should be doing, do it anyway.
Love you,
Mitzi

Yep homework and in two weeks maybe exposure therapy.

 

[SharonL]

Hey guys - I just looked for a new post - didn't realize I was in the OCD forum - take the advice of people that know what you are going through. I cannot relate to how difficult it can be at times. Just remember you are a precious Child of God and He knows your heart and knows your struggles. The best advice comes from people who can relate to you - throw out my advice and all others that cannot relate to what you are going through. I read some really good answers here. Sorry if I came on petty tough for you. Can't believe I didn't notice this was the OCD thread. My answers would have been totally different - lesson learned - I'll pay more attention next time.

 

[SharonL]

Your heart is mainly tortured by this awful disorder which keeps you flipping back and forth from one side to the other. Every time you flip over to the supposed "athiest" side. You freak out. Why is that? How can an athiest freak out about being an athiest. Completely illogical. But it sure feels like it's real - doesn't it?
I'll bet when some of these posts suggested that you might really be becoming an athiest and that your eternal state was "on the line" that you really freaked out. I know when I was deep into my "Oh NO! I think I'm becoming an athiest" theme something like that would have totally knocked the wind out of me.
But in a way, I suppose that was some good exposure for you, so long as you don't hit back.
How's it going with the therapist? What is she having you do for homework. There should be homework if she's doing her job.
Love you,
Mitzi

Thanks for posting this thread and made me sit up and take notice - I did not realize I was in the OCD forum. Your advice made me take a second look. So sorry I was posting along the lines of 'your eternal state was 'on the ine' - It's people like you that are the help for others and take the time to straighten things out. Thanks again.

 

[raven1]

Gracealone did you see my other paragraph?

 

[gracealone]

Hey... thank you so much. You really are the one who is awesome that you would even bother to come back and correct this. Don't worry though, as I truly understand that your motives were pure and compassionate. Raven's posts must, however, be viewed through the lens of OCD and that makes a huge difference in how we respond to her.
Warmest Regards!
Mitzi

Thanks for posting this thread and made me sit up and take notice - I did not realize I was in the OCD forum. Your advice made me take a second look. So sorry I was posting along the lines of 'your eternal state was 'on the ine' - It's people like you that are the help for others and take the time to straighten things out. Thanks again.

 

[gracealone]

Yes, Raven I did. Apologetics on both sides of the argument will do you absolutely no good right now, because you aren't reading them for the right reasons. You are reading them as a part of the compulsive activity of your disorder. And your OCD is grabbing anything and everything in them it can to keep you freaking out. Treat the OCD, get your brain chemistry balanced and then you can look into these things with a calm and logical perspective.
When I tried to brush up on my aplogetics during my Religious OCD my brain latched on to every negative thing and made me think... "I think I'm believing this stuff now!" Now that I'm better I am back to absolutely loving apologetic materials and I can read and listen to atheistic views all day long and not be shaken by them at all. But I had to get better first. So do that. OK?
Love you,
Mitzi

Gracealone did you see my other paragraph?

 

[raven1]

Sharon it is no probelm
Iknow myself and that I am losing my faith.

 

[kodadog1024]

Before I just knew God was there. Now I don't see how he could be. How could he have made something from nothing. It makes more sense something always existed that wasn't God and him walking on water etc. This not ocd this is me losing my faith.

explain. how did you know He was there... What makes you think he couldn't be there (here) now?

 

[raven1]

Because I just knew just like you know now. You hear people say he isn't there u know he is, you know in your "knower"

Reason I doubt is because now I am like how could he say open seasame and the heavens appear, or the earth or people, or walk on water that all seems more illogical to me now and because it does. I want to embrace what makes the most sense but I also don't because what if I am wrong. I don't like to even get in the car anymore. My faith is majorly going and what if something happens to me and hell is there.

 

[kodadog1024]

God is hard to understand for sure and to think He created the universe into existence just by speaking is mind blowing. I remember when I was like 12 I kept ruminating for weeks about "God has always been". He had no beginning. He just always was. What did He do before us? Think of 100 years, then a thousand, a million, a billion, a zillion,.... Just Him, the Spirit and The Son. A perfect harmony always existing until one day.... Along came you Raven. He had you in mind before you were ever in your mothers womb. He has a plan for you. I said a long time ago, He may be testing you, your faith. He may not answer right away. But because you can't see Him, feel Him, hear Him, ... should that deter you? You need to change things up... And or.. maybe you need to lay it all on the line with Him. Tell Him your anger and frustrations with your relationship. Tell Him you want more. He can handle it. I think He wants to see how serious you are... Your not giving up. Not on my watch

 

[raven1]

Ahhhhhhh! So the pastor said I make the decision to operate as God as real. Then that's not pascals wager because I am making a decision as what I regard as real and that's how I am saved. Aaaaahhh! I believe that God is unrealistic but maybe he is there and I don't want to go to hell. Omgosh!!!!! I am losing my mind!!!!!!!

 

[gracealone]

You are not losing your mind. Your mind is just working way too hard. You are feeding the OCD beast and making it stronger and stronger which of course makes the obsession seem more and more threatening. I remember thinking... "my head is going to explode any moment!!"
You would be so much better off if you would read up on and practice ERP against this theme rather than keeping up the questions. But of course if you stop questioning and people stop reassuring you, then you are forced to sit with the obsessions and ride out the Anxiety monster. That takes grit and guts and perseverance. But in the end it's what will allow you to live your life again.
I believe it was Dr. Philipson who said, "the only way out of the OCD maze is to stop looking for the exits." I chose to believe his advice and treat the obsessions as invalid even though they felt really, really real and true. I only pray that you would "run the risk" and do the same.
And it will feel risky. All ERP exercises feel risky and run counter to what our instinctive brain is pushing/compelling us to do.
Exposure - to the fearful thoughts and the scary outcomes they present. Sit with them!!
Response Prevention - refusing to engage with them or attend to them in any way.
You are not and have not been trying to do this at all and that's why you're so miserable.
It's pointless to debate this logically because you cannot outlogic OCD. You have to treat it as OCD or you won't get better.
It's better to listen to those of us who have experienced what you are going through and gotten through it by treating it as OCD than to listen to people who will unwittingly feed your OCD with reassurances or logical counterstatements.
Love you... never have stopped praying for you either.
Mitzi

Ahhhhhhh! So the pastor said I make the decision to operate as God as real. Then that's not pascals wager because I am making a decision as what I regard as real and that's how I am saved. Aaaaahhh! I believe that God is unrealistic but maybe he is there and I don't want to go to hell. Omgosh!!!!! I am losing my mind!!!!!!!

 

[kodadog1024]

You are not and have not been trying to do this at all and that's why you're so miserable. It's pointless to debate this logically because you cannot outlogic OCD. You have to treat it as OCD or you won't get better.

 

[kodadog1024]

I think you need to stop talking to your pastor for a bit.... IMO

 

[raven1]

Why would I treat this exclusively or a majority like ocd when it probably isn't. Plus worse case scenario makes more sense worry about. Then again if isn't ocd why should that mean I go to hell if I still don't want to doubt.

 

[kodadog1024]

lets put it this way Raven, setting aside the idea whether you doubt God or not, whether He exists or not. Ready?? This is a yes or no question btw. No in-betweens, so I will let you think/ponder on this one. Do you WANT to believe in God?

Circle 1 for Yes.
Circle 2 for No.

God doesn't care about your doubt now. How great or how little it is. All He wants to know is do you WANT to believe. Go.