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So you say, but you weren't there.
Peter seemed to think they had really come: "'Rabbi, it is good that we are here! Let us make three tents: one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.'"
Quiet affirmation of false beliefs about Mary.quote=judechild;As to what I would do if Mary appeared to me; I would consider the fruits of the encounter. After all, the devil or a demon cannot appear to a person unless God allows the demon to, so there are a few possibilities: She may not say anything. In this case, I would be almost certain that the encounter was a true vision or visitation because what would the demon stand to gain by appearing to me and doing nothing?
Those can be redefined to orient then toward false beliefs.If the fruits of the encounter were to lead me to deeper prayer, or progress in virtue, my certainty would increase further.
Or if you are in fact of sound mind.If these appearances became numerious, and I was of sound mind, I would have to consider why they are occuring, which may be for a variety of reasons.
Wouldn't satan know that? Remember he was SUBTLE in the garden?She may, on the other hand, say something. In this case, I would know if the visitation were legitimate or not by comparison. Because of the Church, I would be able to measure what she says to Divine Revelation; private Revelation is subservient to public Revelation. If the visitation said something contrary to the Faith (such as 'My Son is not God, but only a manifestation of the True God.') I would know the visitation is false.
Then it would definitely be satanic because we are showing you the error of it online.If, however, what she said to me was not contrary to the faith, but merely encouraged me to do something that was good that I had neglected (like 'I want you to stop arguing online so much and devote more of your time to prayer"), I could consider that the visitation was true.
As to what I would actually do as she/it was standing/floated/swimming in front of me; I certainly wouldn't rebuke it (after all, the first words out of Mary's mouth to Gabriel were not 'I rebuke you in the Name of the God of Israel!!!). I would pray and inquire as to why she/it was here with me. Since she was Mary, I would ask also to touch her; since she has a body, I sould be able to feel her physicality.
No, Jesus said, Mat. 17:9and it doesn't matter what Peter thought at the time.
Good thing ya can't see me thru the monitor when I am shown the error of my waysSir, if God wanted to show me the "error of my ways" online, he would send me a better teacher.
No, Jesus said, Mat. 17:9and it doesn't matter what Peter thought at the time.
You are justifying your idea with "Don't tell anyone what you have seen?" That verse says nothing about the experience being all in their heads. In fact, there is nothing in all of Matthew 17 to suggest it was not a real experience. I think you're just trying to find any way possible to make it so it wasn't "dead" people coming down from heaven.
John the Apostle was taken up to heaven in the Book of Revelation(ie, Rev 11:1,2), but described it as a vision ("After this I had a vision of an open door to heaven," - Rev. 4:1); it doesn't mean he wasn't taken up to heaven.
You mean someone you already respect & believe?Sir, if God wanted to show me the "error of my ways" online, he would send me a better teacher.
You mean someone you already respect & believe?
Jesus was the best teacher & the traditionalists had Him killed.
Must God live up to your expectations? Isn't the truth enough?
Mat. 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”
You need to get youself some reading glasses, or get out of that dark_lite and into the sunshine.
Maybe...quote=judechild;I could ask you the same questions. Sir, you are no better than me,
Why? 'Cause I use a dictionary?but you seem so aristocratic.
You should have deep reasons, Why do you say I'm treating you like a 9yr old or a demon? I haven't told you to go stand in the corner or threatened to tell your mom. I haven't sacrificed a baby to you or rebuked you in Jesus name & told you to go. Are you maybe being a little oversensitive? I can imagine I come off as undersensitive, but I have deep reasons too. I sometimes feel like I'M being treated like a 9yr old & a demon, but complaining never seems to help.I have deep reasons for what I believe, and you do not help your cause to treat me either as a nine-year-old, or as a demon.
Well now I'm REALY sorry I came off that way because it is those very reasons I am here to address.The first step in convincing another person of your viewpoint is to have the courage to acknowledge that the other person has reasons for thinking the way he does as well, and that those reasons will take time to change. They will not change because you pretend they don't exist.
I'm relieved.If I am wrong in what I say, the God who loves me will correct me in time. However, He can do that without your help or hinderence; you are not my savior however much you may try to make me believe that.
Go right ahead. I'll try not to interrupt.Now, may we return to the topic?
It shouldn't. In our minds we can be anything.Wonderful Rick; if he was physically present in his vision, then it seems to me that the vision is more than a picture in his mind.
What translation are you using?
Here is a bunch of translations side by side: Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
The Geneva Study Bible clarifies its use of "vision" to mean a literal sighting.
I don't think you are correct about this.
Hey! Did you mean that like,"so it's no surprise He's using Otto?!"God has spoken through the mouth of an ass before. (Numbers 22)
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