What if "eternal life" wasn't forever?

[JohnClay]

Is it a very big deal if "eternal life" only lasted for a million or a trillion (or a googolplex) years instead of literally forever? Is there a name for the concept that the eternity mentioned in the Bible doesn't literally last forever?

The "amazing grace" song includes:

When we've been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise,
Than when we first begun.​

It seems to be saying 10,000 years is nothing compared to eternity - though that is also kind of true if a googolplex was involved...

Also God is called the Alpha and the Omega - what if there was an end?

 

[com7fy8]

Our Father is changing us into the image of His own Son in whom He is so pleased. He will have us pleasing to Him like Jesus is. So, He will make us so pleasing to Him, that He will never have a reason to stop having us as His children

 

[JohnClay]

Our Father is changing us into the image of His own Son in whom He is so pleased. He will have us pleasing to Him like Jesus is. So, He will make us so pleasing to Him, that He will never have a reason to stop having us as His children

Yeah God could make it so that we never get bored or sinned but I have a problem with eternity due to a thought experiment where God is involved with a simulation. It could involve creation using voice commands, the supernatural, the after-life, omniscience, omnipotence, etc... but a literal eternity seems problematic.

 

[Sketcher]

If "eternal life" wasn't eternal, that would be concerning. First, that would mean that God would have lied to us. Second, it makes me wonder what happens after the limit is reached. Do I cease to exist? Or do I go to Hell for punishment? And if the latter, how long? Also, in terms of relatives in Heaven - if their time there was limited, how much time would I have with them? Would they disappear or leave before me again? Or would they have a longer Heaven-span than I? It's normal for a grandparent to die before you do. But for a grandchild to die - that's another level of grief. If "eternal life" was not eternal, would there be a risk that they would have to undergo that in Heaven? Or what about the Godly parent who had a rebellious child who got saved but still died young. Godly parent gets more time in Heaven than the child because of how they lived their lives, but then they go through that loss again.

I'm glad eternal life is as it says it is - eternal life.

 

[public hermit]

Is there a name for the concept that the eternity mentioned in the Bible doesn't literally last forever?

Age (aeon), of course the Greek is often translated "eternity," which is confusing, if not accurate. My impression is that the ancient Hebrews did not have a comparable notion of eternity, but instead thought in terms of undefined ages. That seems to have influenced the NT, as well.

 

[ewq1938]

Is it a very big deal if "eternal life" only lasted for a million or a trillion (or a googolplex) years instead of literally forever?

Yes because that wouldn't be an eternal life and thus the bible would be in error.

Is there a name for the concept that the eternity mentioned in the Bible doesn't literally last forever?

Yes, the word is deceptive. The bible isn't going to promise eternal life and then only offer limited life.

The "amazing grace" song includes:

When we've been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise,
Than when we first begun.​

It seems to be saying 10,000 years is nothing compared to eternity - though that is also kind of true if a googolplex was involved...

That song isn't scripture. It also doesn't challenge how long eternal is.

Also God is called the Alpha and the Omega - what if there was an end?

Again, that would be contrary to what the bible tells us. God had no beginning and will have no end.

 

[JohnClay]

Yes because that wouldn't be an eternal life and thus the bible would be in error.

Sometimes things in the Bible might not be 100% literally true... e.g. I think the Bible gives the impression that the Earth is flat. Are you aware of any verses that clearly contradict the idea that the Earth is flat? You would then interpret those verses about the Earth as not being literal....

 

[ewq1938]

Sometimes things in the Bible might not be 100% literally true...

If the bible says eternal life is eternal and God has no end, then that is either true or it's false and that would be lying.

Whether the Earth is flat or not is not the same issue because the bible doesn't say the Earth is flat. If it said that, that would be a lie. It doesn't say the Earth is flat. That's based on faulty interpretation but eternal life being eternal is not an interpretation.

 

[JohnClay]

If the bible says eternal life is eternal and God has no end, then that is either true or it's false and that would be lying.

It could be hyperbole or an unclear translation.

Whether the Earth is flat or not is not the same issue because the bible doesn't say the Earth is flat. If it said that, that would be a lie. It doesn't say the Earth is flat.

e.g. It talks about the "ends of the Earth" a lot. A flat Earth interpretation fits those verses better than a globe. It isn't true that the Earth has ends - so is that a "lie"?

That's based on faulty interpretation but eternal life being eternal is not an interpretation.

Some people also take those flat Earth verses literally but on the other hand we can investigate for ourselves whether the Earth is flat.

 

[JohnClay]

If the bible says eternal life is eternal and God has no end, then that is either true or it's false and that would be lying.

Also:
Matthew 21:21

Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.​

Jesus says "truly" which implies he is speaking literally. Is it true what he says there? Surely it is possible for a psychotic person to have faith and not doubt? Has there ever been a person that this passage has been true for? Perhaps you don't think that passage is literal... perhaps also an eternity isn't 100% literal but a trillion years is similar to an eternity...

 

[JohnClay]

If the bible says eternal life is eternal and God has no end, then that is either true or it's false and that would be lying....

Exodus 32:13

Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’”​

See also Genesis 26:4

I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed​

I don't think it is literally true - it seems to be hyperbole..... we know that it isn't literally true.... so perhaps verses about the afterlife could be open to interpretation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Exodus 32:13

Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’”​

See also Genesis 26:4

I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed​

I don't think it is literally true - it seems to be hyperbole..... we know that it isn't literally true.... so perhaps verses about the afterlife could be open to interpretation.

Could not this promise be fulfilled in the next life when the new heavens and new earth are created?

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Also God is called the Alpha and the Omega - what if there was an end?

The Alpha and Omega has to do with God as creator of this heaven and earth and has nothing to do with his eternal character.

The problem with your supposition is that the Scripture speaks of the new earth as "world without end."

Isa 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Exodus 32:13

Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’”​

See also Genesis 26:4

I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed​

I don't think it is literally true - it seems to be hyperbole..... we know that it isn't literally true.... so perhaps verses about the afterlife could be open to interpretation.

Really? I am sure, if you could find a record of it from every generation, that, since God gave the promise and even to this day, every descendant of Abraham would easily make up the stars in the sky; and that is without taking into account those who are children of Abraham by faith. It is literally true and more so.

 

[disciple Clint]

Yeah God could make it so that we never get bored or sinned but I have a problem with eternity due to a thought experiment where God is involved with a simulation. It could involve creation using voice commands, the supernatural, the after-life, omniscience, omnipotence, etc... but a literal eternity seems problematic.

let me throw just one concept into your experiment if I may, God is not bound by time, could it be that we will have no time as we know it when we are with God?

 

[JohnClay]

Could not this promise be fulfilled in the next life when the new heavens and new earth are created?

There are at least 100 billion (some say 400 billion) stars just in our galaxy.... and perhaps stars from other galaxies are visible in the sky too...
Though that could happen in Mormonism, I think Jesus said that there won't be any marriage in Heaven (so no more children). Perhaps there is marriage on the New Earth? But if there is always population growth, there would eventually be a googolplex humans, and then more... and they'd fill up all available space...

 

[JohnClay]

Really? I am sure, if you could find a record of it from every generation, that, since God gave the promise and even to this day, every descendant of Abraham would easily make up the stars in the sky; and that is without taking into account those who are children of Abraham by faith. It is literally true and more so.

I had trouble getting numbers but one source
Human Numbers - How Many People have lived on Earth?
says there have been about 56 billion humans since 2000 BC including those who died in infancy.
There are more than 100 billion (perhaps 400 billion) stars in our galaxy though I guess only some of them are in the sky at a time.

Though there are many more billion stars in the sky from other galaxies....
BTW this
How Many Stars Are There in the Sky?
says:
"...There are only about 5,000 stars visible to the naked, average, human eye..."

But the verse doesn't say it is how many stars that appear to be in the sky - it is how many stars that *are* in the sky....

or maybe there are no stars actually in the sky.... (unlike what flat-earthers believe)

 

[JohnClay]

The Alpha and Omega has to do with God as creator of this heaven and earth and has nothing to do with his eternal character.

The problem with your supposition is that the Scripture speaks of the new earth as "world without end."

Isa 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Yes with a plain reading of those verses it sounds like it has no end but there are other verses that Christians often don't have a plain reading of...

 

[JohnClay]

let me throw just one concept into your experiment if I may, God is not bound by time, could it be that we will have no time as we know it when we are with God?

I think simulations would normally run from the start to the end... though there could be a virtual history of billions of years of stellar and life evolution (that just appears to be actual history). Outside of a simulation some physicists talk about a "block universe" where the entire history of the universe exists as a static entity. Perhaps there could be a simulation like that where God could freely go around in history but ultimately history is static. That history could include what happens after the end of the world... that way God knows everything and doesn't change... I'm not sure if being "with God" lets you share his omniscience and being outside of time...
Though I think Revelation says we'd "see his face"....
I think if you were as close to God as possible you'd be under the normal time of the external world...

 

[Carl Emerson]

There are at least 100 billion (some say 400 billion) stars just in our galaxy.... and perhaps stars from other galaxies are visible in the sky too...
Though that could happen in Mormonism, I think Jesus said that there won't be any marriage in Heaven (so no more children). Perhaps there is marriage on the New Earth? But if there is always population growth, there would eventually be a googolplex humans, and then more... and they'd fill up all available space...

Frankly we are embarking on a journey of speculation - there are infinite 'what if's' - best to focus on being saved, sanctified and redeemed. That way we will not miss out on all the wonderful things to come that are in fact well beyond our puny minds.