What if being true to yourself meant not being a Christian?

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I often find that Christians seem to think its "easy" to convert. This is mostly from people who were raised Christian and have been Christians they're whole life.

I feel like if I were to become a full-fledged Christian I would be giving up some things which are essential to making me "me".

It often involves a total cultural shift. I totally philosophical change. And often you have to leave behind things which your parents taught you, things from your history and upbringing, your cultural background and even change the way your mind processes information.

For example, I was raised in a non-religious home and I come from an East Indian background whereby my parents have many East Indian philosophical under-pinnings. I was raised to be open-minded and tolerant and inclusive. I was raised in such a way where religious labels are unimportant and do not have any bearing on the person behind the label. I was raised with subjective truth being an implicit assumption whereby skepticism and agnosticism are the norm. Around my parents house you will find books such as the Bible, New Age lovey-dovey stuff, the Bhagavad Gita, stuff by Deepak Chopra as well as many, many scientific magazines.

To become a fully committed Christian means embracing certain values and ways of thinking which are not true of who I am. Everyone seems to say that being who you are is vital to being an honest and genuine person. If I try to be a Christian I feel like I'm cheating myself and am being dishonest about my true self.

I am who I am. Can no Christian fully accept me as that?

Edit: Furthermore, would most Christians acknowledge that it would be exceedingly difficult for them to put aside all their upbringing, beliefs, philosophies, ideologies, biases, values, mental processes, cultural history in order to follow another religion or philosophical path?

 

[Hakan101]

I have not thought of a response to this yet, I don't have time right now. But I instantly thought of this passage.

Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? 26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

From this, I would not say the Christian life is easy. It also suggests a connection between Jesus and your "true self"

 

[drich0150]

I often find that Christians seem to think its "easy" to convert. This is mostly from people who were raised Christian and have been Christians they're whole life.

True, but this understanding is often a double edged sword. As Christ says in Mt 7 that not all who call out Lord, Lord will I know. Meaning not all who believe that they have converted have indeed been saved.

What happens is that they put on the religion of their fathers but fail to understand that Christ can not be found in religion, but only in a personal relationship.

I feel like if I were to become a full-fledged Christian I would be giving up some things which are essential to making me "me".

That's what Christianity is. Like in a marriage we cease living for ourselves and we take on the responsibilities of being one with God. In the beginning This will be a foreign concept for most of us because now we are to no longer live for ourselves but for the relationship we share with God.

And often you have to leave behind things which your parents taught you, things from your history and upbringing, your cultural background and even change the way your mind processes information.

Do you know the story of Lot's wife?
Rather than look back, look ahead at who you will become.

For example, I was raised in a non-religious home and I come from an East Indian background whereby my parents have many East Indian philosophical under-pinnings. I was raised to be open-minded and tolerant and inclusive. I was raised in such a way where religious labels are unimportant and do not have any bearing on the person behind the label. I was raised with subjective truth being an implicit assumption whereby skepticism and agnosticism are the norm. Around my parents house you will find books such as the Bible, New Age lovey-dovey stuff, the Bhagavad Gita, stuff by Deepak Chopra as well as many, many scientific magazines.

All of your questions and seeking have lead you to this point, this realization, because this is your final exam. This is the big question. (One you do not have to answer this second..)
Who do you love more? On One hand we have the greatest command. To Love our God with all of our Essence. and on the other we have all of the treasures we compile in the living of life.

If you feel you can not choose God but somehow still want to, then know He can help, all you have to do is ask.

To become a fully committed Christian means embracing certain values and ways of thinking which are not true of who I am. Everyone seems to say that being who you are is vital to being an honest and genuine person.

Why do you think that is? Because If we are true to our selves, then we can not be true to God. No one can. This is a doctrine of selfishness.

If I try to be a Christian I feel like I'm cheating myself and am being dishonest about my true self.

That's because Being a "Christian" is not about "self." It is about service and relationship to God.

I am who I am. Can no Christian fully accept me as that?

We can, but will God, if He has commanded you otherwise?

Edit: Furthermore, would most Christians acknowledge that it would be exceedingly difficult for them to put aside all their upbringing, beliefs, philosophies, ideologies, biases, values, mental processes, cultural history in order to follow another religion or philosophical path?

Yes very difficult.
I will say, once the decision was made and i learned how to follow through with my faith, finding a balance between what or how i grew up and what God expects became much easier.

 

[aiki]

I often find that Christians seem to think its "easy" to convert. This is mostly from people who were raised Christian and have been Christians they're whole life.

As one who has been raised from birth within the evangelical Christian community I can tell you that it is impossible for you to forsake who you have come to be in order to follow Christ. It will take an act of God to bring you to genuine, saving faith in Christ.

I feel like if I were to become a full-fledged Christian I would be giving up some things which are essential to making me "me".

It often involves a total cultural shift. I totally philosophical change. And often you have to leave behind things which your parents taught you, things from your history and upbringing, your cultural background and even change the way your mind processes information.

And this is exactly why it takes divine intervention to be truly born again.

John 6:44
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him...

To become a fully committed Christian means embracing certain values and ways of thinking which are not true of who I am. Everyone seems to say that being who you are is vital to being an honest and genuine person. If I try to be a Christian I feel like I'm cheating myself and am being dishonest about my true self.

It is being who you are that puts you at eternally-fatal odds with your Maker! God says of us:

Proverbs 28:26
26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool...

Jeremiah 17:9
9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 8:6-8
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

I am who I am. Can no Christian fully accept me as that?

The issue isn't whether or not Christians accept you but whether or not God accepts you. And His Word makes it clear that the only way to gain acceptance with Him is through His Son, Jesus Christ.

John 3:36
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

1 John 5:11-13
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Selah.

 

[Forge3]

Matthew 6:20-22
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
20 But store up for yourselves (A)treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21 for (B)where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

To convert leads to ongoing conversion. When you find it in your heart to follow a path, a path with heart, what seem like intrinsic attachments will be more easily shed. Your true self, which is the core, is very simple and pure. It transcends culture.


At one point in my life I studied the Bhagavad Gita, The Srima Bhagavatan books and spent a lot of time long distance to join the Hare Krhishnas, I was living chaste, meditating, working, reflecting. In one conversation with one of them he said "You have to leave everything for Khrisna". I was raised Catholic but left that on the ledge will exploring other 'ways'. I was torn in my faith. My heart had a simple desire in prayer and I wept. Then I heard a distinctive voice in my mind that said simply "Follow Me". The exultation I found in that moment was perhaps the greatest ever. And the conversion continues.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

That's what Christianity is. Like in a marriage we cease living for ourselves and we take on the responsibilities of being one with God. In the beginning This will be a foreign concept for most of us because now we are to no longer live for ourselves but for the relationship we share with God.

I think two married people should maintain some sort of separate identity. I think its healthy for two married people to have one or two activities that are not totally intertwined with each other. So I'm not sure if I agree with your analogy.

I also think that the ideal you describe of no longer living for ourselves but instead living for God is an impossible ideal which no one has come close to living out. We are all selfishly motivated. Many people use Jesus or God as a part of what they would call their "identity". In fact, I would say that if you were to ask any Christian what defines them they would probably say God or Jesus along with a variety of other things (occupation, ethnicity, etc).

Do you know the story of Lot's wife?
Rather than look back, look ahead at who you will become.

No, I don't. What are the verses?

All of your questions and seeking have lead you to this point, this realization, because this is your final exam. This is the big question. (One you do not have to answer this second..)
Who do you love more? On One hand we have the greatest command. To Love our God with all of our Essence. and on the other we have all of the treasures we compile in the living of life.

Are you advocating that we give up the Self in order to commune with the Whole (God)? How do you go about doing that?

This is another offshoot: Christianity doesn't have a very good description of the method or process that leads to this God-filled life. I find that Eastern religions such as Buddhism have very well-defined practices and processes and stages that get you from your selfish, desire-filled self to commune with the Whole (for all intents and purposes: God). Buddhism's main methodology is meditation. I feel that Christianity's main methodology is prayer. I feel as though prayer and meditation are two manifestations of the same thing.

If you feel you can not choose God but somehow still want to, then know He can help, all you have to do is ask.

Ask him through prayer? For how long? Should I meditate? The way you're talking makes me think I'm trying to reach some sort of Enlightenment.

Why do you think that is? Because If we are true to our selves, then we can not be true to God. No one can. This is a doctrine of selfishness.

So I have to reject everything about myself in order to follow God? Again, I see no evidence that any Christian has accomplished this. The closest thing I've seen to selfless people have been some Eastern mystics in the Himilayas, and they were Buddhist! This seems like an impossible ideal to achieve and Christianity has a very poor methodology. Christianity says, "You just do it!" At least Buddhism recognizes the extreme hardship, concentration, focus and practice it would require through monastic meditation to achieve such a thing.

We can, but will God, if He has commanded you otherwise?

If God is truly loving and forgiving then yes He would. Commands by an all-loving and all-forgiving God have no meaning because if you break them, he's all-loving and all-forgiving...


Note: I've kind of equated Buddhist-style "Enlightenment" with "Relationship with God" in this post because the way you were saying things seemed to naturally draw the analogy.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

At one point in my life I studied the Bhagavad Gita, The Srima Bhagavatan books and spent a lot of time long distance to join the Hare Krhishnas, I was living chaste, meditating, working, reflecting. In one conversation with one of them he said "You have to leave everything for Khrisna". I was raised Catholic but left that on the ledge will exploring other 'ways'. I was torn in my faith. My heart had a simple desire in prayer and I wept. Then I heard a distinctive voice in my mind that said simply "Follow Me". The exultation I found in that moment was perhaps the greatest ever. And the conversion continues.

And for those that don't feel torn?

And for those that don't hear the "Follow me"?

And for those that weren't raised Christian?

Should the rest of us just continue living as you were living: chaste, meditating, working, reflecting?

Also, the voice you heard...was it Jesus? Or was it Krishna? Both seem to be commanding you to follow them...how did you distinguish who was who?

 

[elopez]

I often find that Christians seem to think its "easy" to convert. This is mostly from people who were raised Christian and have been Christians they're whole life.

I'm not sure if I could say I've been Christian my whole life but I have been raised in a Christian environment. Either way, I don't feel at all that converting is a simple task.

I feel like if I were to become a full-fledged Christian I would be giving up some things which are essential to making me "me".

Like what for example? Being Christian is all about following Christ which is essentially to live by the spirit and not the flesh, or said differently to imitate what Christ would do.

It often involves a total cultural shift. I totally philosophical change. And often you have to leave behind things which your parents taught you, things from your history and upbringing, your cultural background and even change the way your mind processes information.

I don't feel this is valid at all. How does one's history and upbringing change just because he may convert to Christianity? I can only make sense of that by meaning one changes from sin to realizing their sin and wanting to correct that, which I don't feel is such a bad thing. I can see one's philosophical views changing for sure, but the way we process information? I don't follow that point...

To become a fully committed Christian means embracing certain values and ways of thinking which are not true of who I am.

Again, like what?

Everyone seems to say that being who you are is vital to being an honest and genuine person. If I try to be a Christian I feel like I'm cheating myself and am being dishonest about my true self.

What is your true self and how is it mutually exclusive from being Christian?

I am who I am. Can no Christian fully accept me as that?

I can accept you for who you are, there is no issue with that once so ever. I just don't understand how being yourself and being Christian don't mix. I'm not saying it couldn't be, just that I don't understand how it is.

Edit: Furthermore, would most Christians acknowledge that it would be exceedingly difficult for them to put aside all their upbringing, beliefs, philosophies, ideologies, biases, values, mental processes, cultural history in order to follow another religion or philosophical path?

Yes, that would be hard indeed but if some religion required of me to not attempt at being a morally upright person I wouldn't want to follow that religion at all.

 

[Core90]

To become a fully committed Christian means embracing certain values and ways of thinking which are not true of who I am. Everyone seems to say that being who you are is vital to being an honest and genuine person. If I try to be a Christian I feel like I'm cheating myself and am being dishonest about my true self.

I am who I am. Can no Christian fully accept me as that?

Edit: Furthermore, would most Christians acknowledge that it would be exceedingly difficult for them to put aside all their upbringing, beliefs, philosophies, ideologies, biases, values, mental processes, cultural history in order to follow another religion or philosophical path?

I don't think God expects any new Christian to instantly change overnight. Some have claimed they have with God's help, and if that truly happened then more power to them.
To answer your question, yes, though I have never experienced it, (and don't plan to), I imagine it would be very difficult to discard one belief system for a completly different one.
I also wish that more Christians would be less judging of newer Christians and non-Christians, and instead teach them in love as Jesus taught us.
Personally, I have been a Christian since I was as little as I can remember and obviously, I'm still not perfect at it. But of course, that's the whole point of Jesus dying on the cross, we can't save ourselves.
However, the second someone does become a Christian, the Holy Spirit enters their life, and through the guiding of the Holy Spirit, desires for sin decrease over time, and suddenly following the values found in the Bible are not nearly as difficult.

 

[drich0150]

I
I also think that the ideal you describe of no longer living for ourselves but instead living for God is an impossible ideal which no one has come close to living out.

Absolutely not true.

We are all selfishly motivated. Many people use Jesus or God as a part of what they would call their "identity". In fact, I would say that if you were to ask any Christian what defines them they would probably say God or Jesus along with a variety of other things (occupation, ethnicity, etc).

Which is why we are told we are to be Slaves to Christ. A Slave is one who puts the will of His master over that of his own. It just so happens that our Master wishes are better for us, than what we wish for ourselves.

No, I don't. What are the verses?

The principle explained:

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Luke17

22 And He said to the disciples, “(W)The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 (X)They will say to you, ‘Look there! Look here!’ Do not go away, and do not run after them. 24 (Y)For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part [p]of the sky, shines to the other part [q]of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. 25 (Z)But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 (AA)And just as it happened (AB)in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 [r]It was the same as happened in (AC)the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and [s]brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be [t]just the same on the day that the Son of Man (AD)is revealed. 31 On that day, the one who is (AE)on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32 (AF)Remember Lot’s wife. 33 (AG)Whoever seeks to keep his [u]life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Are you advocating that we give up the Self in order to commune with the Whole (God)?

Yes

How do you go about doing that?

The process often starts with identifying what in the persons life he holds most dear, and then he has to reconcile it with our greatest command. After which a decision has to be made on whether the position of "Most dear in one's heart" will be awarded to God or will you keep whatever is currently there.

This is another offshoot: Christianity doesn't have a very good description of the method or process that leads to this God-filled life.

Because it is not a check list process.

I find that Eastern religions such as Buddhism have very well-defined practices and processes and stages that get you from your selfish, desire-filled self to commune with the Whole (for all intents and purposes: God). Buddhism's main methodology is meditation. I feel that Christianity's main methodology is prayer. I feel as though prayer and meditation are two manifestations of the same thing.

I grew up in Buddhist House hold (Seon,) and i can certainly say they are not. If your prayer is like trying to center yourself in meditation then you do not understand the concept of Prayer. Luke 11 gives us a model of prayer. Very little of which centers on one self nor does it have to do with personal enlightenment.

Ask him through prayer?

yes

For how long?

5 Then He said to them, “[d]Suppose one of you has a friend, and goes to him at midnight and says to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and from inside he answers and says, ‘Do not bother me; the door has already been shut and my children [e]and I are in bed; I cannot get up and give you anything.’ 8 I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet (D)because of his [f]persistence he will get up and give him as much as he needs. 9 “So I say to you, [g](E)ask, and it will be given to you; [h]seek, and you will find; [i]knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened. 11 Now [j]suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a [k]fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? 12 Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? 13 (F)If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your [l]heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

How long did the neighbor knock? what was the time frame given? Or rather what happened in order for him to stop knocking?

Should I meditate?

On what?

The way you're talking makes me think I'm trying to reach some sort of Enlightenment.

Nope. What I am pointing you towards, is a personal Measure of the Holy Spirit of God to help you direct your life.

So I have to reject everything about myself in order to follow God?

Yep.

Again, I see no evidence that any Christian has accomplished this.

The bible is full of such examples.

The closest thing I've seen to selfless people have been some Eastern mystics in the Himalayas, and they were Buddhist!

It is because you are looking for "selfless people" in Christianity rather than looking for someone who has died to self, and is living for Christ. Christianity is not a religion devoted to selflessness Because we are to emulate Christ, and Christ Himself was not selfless. He did what He did for a very specific purpose. And all of what was done was for the greater Glory of God. Selflessness still points to the person performing the act. Often times a "selfless act" is it's own reward. While acts that glorify God do just that, no matter what or how other people judge the act being performed.

That is why it was OK or even deemed Good that men of God slay every man woman and Child of a given people, or why it is/was OK to own a slave and so on. Selflessness is not the ultimate goal, because Selflessness is still a form of people/self worship. In that your god or your morality is determined by those who judge your works to be "good" or selfless.
While Service to God does require a measure of selflessness, it is not always easy to identify it as such.

This seems like an impossible ideal to achieve and Christianity has a very poor methodology.

That is a good thing because Christianity is not a Method made religion. Christianity is merely a means to an end. the End being an eternal relationship with God.

Christianity says, "You just do it!"

Actually no. Christianity says: It's Done, just accept it. For there is noting one can "Do" to earn the Righteousness that Christ offers.

At least Buddhism recognizes the extreme hardship, concentration, focus and practice it would require through monastic meditation to achieve such a thing.

why do you think that is?
Because the religion in of itself is the ultimate goal or the ultimate expression of Faith. While Christianity is just a stepping stone. There are few fixed points in Christianity for that reason.

If God is truly loving and forgiving then yes He would.

So the God of the Universe has to be loving and forgiving to your understanding of these terms in order to indeed be a Loving and forgiving God? Now what if He defined the boundaries of His love and forgiveness, and your understanding of precepts did not conform to His? Which party is obligated to redefine their definitions? Why?

Commands by an all-loving and all-forgiving God have no meaning because if you break them, he's all-loving and all-forgiving...

Can you give book chapter and verse that describes God this way?

Note: I've kind of equated Buddhist-style "Enlightenment" with "Relationship with God" in this post because the way you were saying things seemed to naturally draw the analogy.

I can see why you would do this if you did not understand the two terms being discussed
-Or-
Drawing parallels between the core beliefs of Christianity and the Core beliefs of Buddhism allows you a way to easily refute the merits of legitimate self sacrifice when paired with and easily dismissed expression of faith.

If this was the intended purpose of your reply, your going to have to do better or pick a more obscure religion to try and dismiss the part of Christianity you are finding so hard to accept, because Bottom Line is if you are indeed looking to become a Christian. you will have to Die to your selfish wants and desires and will have to Learn to live for Christ. With all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit, and Strength. If you feel you can not do this but know you need to then with all that you have been given ask God to help you make the transition.

 

[Forge3]

And for those that don't feel torn?

that includes people who are committed or dedicated to any path. Every person's road is different. We will not all have the same experiences. When making a decision of the heart and mind there is always a weighing process for the big questions. This is because it may lead to change. I am intrigued that you say you are not torn and yet you are looking for input.

And for those that don't hear the "Follow me"?

Locutions, visions and such are not necessary. God can speak to us in any moment in any way He may choose. It helps if we are mindful and listen.

And for those that weren't raised Christian?


People go from one faith to another. It is decision of mind and heart after thoughtful reflection.

Should the rest of us just continue living as you were living: chaste, meditating, working, reflecting?

I felt that was my calling and followed it. Not everyone's calling is the same. reflection, thoughtful consideration, meditation, prayer are great tools for anyone discerning a choice like this.



Also, the voice you heard...was it Jesus? Or was it Krishna? Both seem to be commanding you to follow them...how did you distinguish who was who?

I 'knew' it was Jesus. There is not too much to elaborate on it. Through all my being I knew.

 

[Emmy]

Dear leftrightleftrightleft. Jesus told us to: " Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. Also: Love our neighbour as ourselves." Then Jesus points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Straightforward and easy to understand. God wants our love, freely given and no conditions asked. It means: everthing we say, or do, or advocate, must be from true and sincere love. God wants our Love, and a good way to show and prove this: " treat all we know and all we meet, friends or not friends, as we would love to be treated. Love is a Christian`s weapon, we overcome and conquer all with love and compassion. God sees our sincere efforts and God will bless us, And God will know that we love Him; why? Because we follow God`s Commandments to love and care.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love, also. Jesus told us to "ask and ye will receive," then we share all Love and Joy, ( ours included) with all around us. We might stumble or fail, but we will ask God to forgive us, and God will forgive us, as we will forgive others. Jesus our Saviour, is ready to help us and guide us all the way, in fact Jesus is The Way. That is the follower Jesus wants, Love for God our Heavenly Father, who made us in His image, and love for our neighbour as ourselves. I say this with love, leftright. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.