What if an undead creature wanted to become a Christian?

[2PhiloVoid]

That is more or less the angle I'm coming at this from. In the story, humanity and religion have labeled vampires as innately evil due to their consumtion of blood, killing of people, undeath, etc. Thus, if they're innately evil, then they must be a form of demon of course. Even many vampires believe this to be true, especially ones who were formally Christians in life. However, the truth of the setting is that they aren't innately anything. Technically, they don't HAVE to kill people, they could limit themselves to only taking small quantities of blood from someone if they so chose. Thus, their evil behaviour is just that, their behaviour. So... with that context, if one of them were to stumble into circumstances which made them want to protect a group of people, if they were with them long enough to even become converted to Christianity. Would they stand a chance of entering Heaven? Apparently the concensus is "No", but that's fine. The story won't follow the character to their possible afterlife anyway, thus it won't really matter.



I agree. I have a character I want to portray as being different from common conceptions of what a vampire is, different even from other vampires in the setting. I want to show the conflicts this will cause him as he obviously can't fit into human society, and his beliefs and practices put him at odds with vampire society as well. My intent is to explore that character, not mock real world religions. The religious aspects are there as context for the story, not the purpose of the story, or part of an underlying religious message. My hope is a religious person would read this and consider the ideas as they relate to that character only, not get enraged by a presumed heretical intent outside the story itself.

Personally, my favorite take on this kind of trope or genre is "Ghost Rider" .............................

 

[Spiralbound]

What kind of testing do you do, like a reporter* doing interviews for an investigation, to find out / prove/ test who is faithful and who is not ?

*(VERIFY, VERIFY , VERIFY before publishing)

I'm not trying to prove anything. I guess it would be fair to say I'm assuming the members of this forum like yourself and others are in fact Christians when they claim to be. I'm taking you at your word really. If you're NOT a Christian, then you're really convincing! All I meant was that I'm writing a story which has some religious ideas in it as part of the background of the story, so I wanted to get the perspective of Christians on some of my ideas. I have no other agenda here, that's it.

 

[usexpat97]

No. That is what I said - the world's view, apparently.

The ones who go to seminary are usually opposed to Jesus.

He calls and chooses those things that "are not" to confound the "things that are". Is that what seems to be mixed up then ?

Those with 'degrees', Jesus says Yahuweh HIDES SALVATION FROM......

The fishermen He Chose, the tax collector, and misfits, HE SAYS HE CHOSE - and they did not have the Gospel UNTIL the Father in Heaven REVEALED IT TO THEM.

Your hindsight is 20/20.

What if you lived back then? Well-meaning, you had a passion for God--meaning you passionately pursued JUDAISM. And along come these yahoos claiming they have "found" this new religion, and they take it to the Jerusalem temple and the synagogues. What would you do? You followed your religion all your life, it is ingrained in your soul, and big ships with small rudders take awhile to turn.

Do you explore the essence of what makes one "good"--really? What is truth? Just because you were taught something is true from your childhood...does that make it true? What makes YOU turn? What is YOUR "Saul, why do you persecute me...who are you Lord?" moment?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm not trying to prove anything. I guess it would be fair to say I'm assuming the members of this forum like yourself and others are in fact Christians when they claim to be. I'm taking you at your word really. If you're NOT a Christian, then you're really convincing! All I meant was that I'm writing a story which has some religious ideas in it as part of the background of the story, so I wanted to get the perspective of Christians on some of my ideas. I have no other agenda here, that's it.

GOOD! GREAT ! (it is better worded THIS TIME - "get the perspective of Christians", not "faithful Christians", since there is a BIG DIFFERENCE) Remember most Christians are weak, fearful, doubtful, many sick and dying, some or many not knowing why or not even knowing what is happening, and so on...
i.e. a whole range of people in all kinds of various states/ conditions/ imperfect..... not ideal or not idealized, not usually good strong pillars in the community even....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Your hindsight is 20/20.

What if you lived back then? Well-meaning, you had a passion for God--meaning you passionately pursued JUDAISM. And along come these yahoos claiming they have "found" this new religion, and they take it to the Jerusalem temple and the synagogues. What would you do? You followed your religion all your life, it is ingrained in your soul, and big ships with small rudders take awhile to turn.

Do you explore the essence of what makes one "good"--really? What is truth? Just because you were taught something is true from your childhood...does that make it true? What makes YOU turn? What is YOUR "Saul, why do you persecute me...who are you Lord?" moment?

For me like it was or is for everyone,
when Jesus Says "turn to Yahuweh because HIS KINGDOM (His Being in Charge, the One Ruler) is now at hand, here, today" ..... (paraphrased, of course, for today) ....
like it was for Saul/Apostle Paul,
and all the other students of Jesus -
when Jesus Says "Follow Me", who dropped everything to follow Him (though many later left Jesus, they walked away from Him, and Jesus did not say a word to try to stop them, no, not at all) ....

As for me and my household, we will serve The Lord, The Master, The Savior of mankind, our Savior, Jesus.

 

[Spiralbound]

Yes, Jesus converts these creatures all the time if you view zombies, vampires, etc. as a metaphor for a type of person/unclean spirit.

Do you mean in the sense of an exorcism? I'm not familar with any writings of Jesus converting unclean spirits. I guess, if you take a sinner and then cleanse their soul of sin it would apply, but I'm starting with a character which isn't really human any more, so I don't know if it is an apt analogy. An exorcism style "conversion" would pretty much destroy the main character, prematurely ending the story, so I can't use that interpretation! LOL!

 

[iamchance]

Do you mean in the sense of an exorcism? I'm not familar with any writings of Jesus converting unclean spirits. I guess, if you take a sinner and then cleanse their soul of sin it would apply, but I'm starting with a character which isn't really human any more, so I don't know if it is an apt analogy. An exorcism style "conversion" would pretty much destroy the main character, prematurely ending the story, so I can't use that interpretation! LOL!

No, not necessarily an Exorcism. I look at supernatural creatures as metaphors. For example, I see a zombie as a person who is spiritually dead. I view a vampire as somebody who steals something from others to feel good about themselves. A cyclops as somebody who may only see things one way (linear perspective). A werewolf as a man who has a beast inside (for example, anger).

I guess what I'm saying is Jesus can handle any and all of these issues, nothing is too big for Him.

 

[usexpat97]

I'm not familar with any writings of Jesus converting unclean spirits.

But maybe the zombies do not have unclean spirits? They have very unclean flesh. Which guess what, we all do.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm not familar with any writings of Jesus converting unclean spirits.

Yes, Jesus never changed a demon into anything clean nor good nor saved.
Yes, except for unclean spirits (a person's spirit) of a person (a person of the world to start with is usually unclean, and Jesus is the only one who is able to make anyone clean).

 

[usexpat97]

Oh, I have an idea even more rad:

What if you have a necromancer, who raises the dead into undead creatures? A deeply evil act--witchcraft. BUT...

Some of the undead themselves are not. The necromancer is deeply evil, the zombies' existence stems directly from a deeply evil act. But a zombie himself is not, and in the end chooses not to be. The zombie is saved. The necromancer who brought about his existence is perditioned.

 

[Spiralbound]

Oh, I have an idea even more rad:

What if you have a necromancer, who raises the dead into undead creatures? A deeply evil act--witchcraft. BUT...

Some of the undead themselves are not. The necromancer is deeply evil, the zombies' existence stems directly from a deeply evil act. But a zombie himself is not, and in the end chooses not to be. The zombie is saved. The necromancer who brought about his existence is perditioned.

An interesting idea. I would think if the zombie was raised against their will and didn't want to be a zombie, they would seek out the closest priest and ask to be reconsecrated as I suspect that would remove the evil necromantic energies and allow the body to return to proper rest.

Actally, the more I think of it, I don't think such a scenario would work without some extra plot points. Strictly speaking, a zombie is an animated corpse - the original soul which previously inhabited the body is long since left, presumably gone to its afterlife destination. Thus, once reanimated, the zombie would still be an empty shell in the spiritual sense. There's no one inside to object to their reanimation, or to be self aware, or to seek religious salvation. I guess that would also mean zombies can't be evil any more than a truck or a hammer can be evil.

Now if instead the Necromancer was EXTRA evil and was somehow bonding souls to corpses and reanimating the corpses as zombies, THEN you could have a reluctant zombie who wants to cease their unlife and then all the stuff from my first paragraph could occur.

 

[usexpat97]

An interesting idea. I would think if the zombie was raised against their will and didn't want to be a zombie

Not exactly. None of us were born either against our will or with it. We were just born.... Your mom became pregnant--you didn't "will", or "want to be", or "not want to be" anything. And what if we were born with leprosy? We didn't want to be born with rotting flesh. It doesn't make us evil--it's just a congenital infirmity; that's all.

 

[The Barbarian]

Since any sentient being would be one of God's creations (no matter how warped by his own evil) then it seems to me that sincere repentance would be accepted by God.

 

[The Barbarian]

Umm... You do realise this is the "creative writing" forum, right? I'm not making a case for Zombies in Heaven in the real world, only discussing this as a "what if" for use in fiction. I'm not trying to offend, just get some outside perspectives.

I agree. And I think it's a great idea.

Many years ago, I read a short story, wherein a highly advanced technical civilization had two scholars trying to figure out the concept of demons and devils in primitive society. So they found some old writing and did a summoning. It works. A demon appears.

The demon immediately tries bargaining with them for their souls, and they look at each other, thinking "this guy is unhinged." When he gets aggressive, their technology allows them to subdue him, and they strap him onto a table where they use their technology to try to treat him.

Suddenly, there's a burst of light, the demon is transformed into a beautiful being and breaks loose from the table. He shouts "glory to God" and disappears.

They write their paper, and in the abstract, they conclude "A demon is an insane angel."

So, I'm thinking a vampire, aware of the logical and moral problems with what he must do to endure, first tries getting psychiatric help, and then, in a terrifying flash of insight, realizes that only a spiritual healing can help him. He doesn't share this with his fellow vampires, but they perceive something seriously "wrong" is going on, and express concern in various ways.

Then, with much trepidation, he begins to seek the answer, perhaps finding a guide of sorts in some kind of outcast creature of his own kind.

It would have to be quite a journey, wouldn't it?