What if an undead creature wanted to become a Christian?

[Spiralbound]

I'm envisioning some sort of self-aware creature like a mummy, vampire, or zombie. Something which could exist in a story in a version that could think and reason. If they were to want to become a Christian, could they repent their sins and be accepted into Christianity? Would God grant them access to Heaven if they were killed?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm envisioning some sort of self-aware creature like a mummy, vampire, or zombie. Something which could exist in a story in a version that could think and reason. If they were to want to become a Christian, could they repent their sins and be accepted into Christianity? Would God grant them access to Heaven if they were killed?

Jesus DIED , CRUCIFIED, only for men. Not for angels. Not for animals. Nor for fish. Not for reptiles. Not for imaginary things.
CHRIST CRUCIFIED! The Gospel of Salvation FOR MEN.

 

[Dave-W]

Anything UNDEAD would not be the deceased but a demon or fallen angel animating dead flesh. They cannot and have no desire to come to faith. As it is written: "the demons also believe and shudder."

 

[miggles]

if the undead were staked then he could be saved.

 

[Spiralbound]

Jesus DIED , CRUCIFIED, only for men. Not for angels. Not for animals. Nor for fish. Not for reptiles. Not for imaginary things.
CHRIST CRUCIFIED! The Gospel of Salvation FOR MEN.

Umm... You do realise this is the "creative writing" forum, right? I'm not making a case for Zombies in Heaven in the real world, only discussing this as a "what if" for use in fiction. I'm not trying to offend, just get some outside perspectives.

 

[Spiralbound]

So to sum up the comments thus far, if an undead creature of any kind were to attempt salvation in a story, by most Christian standards they should be denied, especially if the story follows an "undead=demon" reasoning. However, even if it didn't, it still wouldn't work since they aren't "men" and Christ only offered eternal salvation for mankind, not other things. Thus, if a story DID somehow permit this to occur, would most Christians would find it difficult to believe, perhaps even consider it sacrilegious, or would they just go "Eh, that wouldn't happen in the real world."?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'm envisioning some sort of self-aware creature like a mummy, vampire, or zombie. Something which could exist in a story in a version that could think and reason. If they were to want to become a Christian, could they repent their sins and be accepted into Christianity? Would God grant them access to Heaven if they were killed?

As far as "creative writing" is concerned, I think you've been beat to the punch in writing about some kind of undead which can perhaps be saved in a Christian sense. Barren Cross has a song they wrote back in the late 1980s called "Living Dead" which expresses at least some of the nuances I think you're speaking of here. So, sure. I think you could come up with something like this if you were wanting to write a 'fictional' type of alternative reality story. In fiction, anything is possible, right?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm envisioning some sort of self-aware creature like a mummy, vampire, or zombie. Something which could exist in a story in a version that could think and reason. If they were to want to become a Christian, could they repent their sins and be accepted into Christianity? Would God grant them access to Heaven if they were killed?

Umm... You do realise this is the "creative writing" forum, right? I'm not making a case for Zombies in Heaven in the real world, only discussing this as a "what if" for use in fiction. I'm not trying to offend, just get some outside perspectives.

"Outside perspectives" ? Outside of what ?

I gave the "Inside Perspective" (God's Stated Perspective In Scripture).

God's Perspective, when it is learned, can be used in 'creative writing' right ?

Fiction, of course, may have no limits, if there is no morality requirements/ right and wrong.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I'm envisioning some sort of self-aware creature like a mummy, vampire, or zombie. Something which could exist in a story in a version that could think and reason. If they were to want to become a Christian, could they repent their sins and be accepted into Christianity? Would God grant them access to Heaven if they were killed?

I guess we could hand them tracts or The Walking Dead NIV Study Bible and see what happens?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So to sum up the comments thus far, if an undead creature of any kind were to attempt salvation in a story, by most Christian standards they should be denied, especially if the story follows an "undead=demon" reasoning. However, even if it didn't, it still wouldn't work since they aren't "men" and Christ only offered eternal salvation for mankind, not other things. Thus, if a story DID somehow permit this to occur, would most Christians would find it difficult to believe, perhaps even consider it sacrilegious, or would they just go "Eh, that wouldn't happen in the real world."?

Those following Jesus already know that cannot happen, "real world" or not. In fiction, who cares ?

 

[usexpat97]

"Do not be equally yoked. For what do light and dark have in common?"

I realize this is creative writing. But you're making light and dark have something in common. It's just too far-fetched for me.

Although...a spin on it you could take is that vampires, zombies, etc.--which are purely fictitious creatures anyway--only APPEAR evil, when in fact they are not. So then you have vampires & zombies accept Christ. Fiction has subtle undertones mirroring the real world all the time, and for this, you could convey the perspective that...just as many things in the real world appear good but are in fact evil...so do many things appear evil in the real world but are in fact good. The guy in the black hat is the good guy you should be rooting for. So it's a story that explores: if rotting flesh and sucking blood is not what makes you evil, then what does? Something does, but...what?

Satan does the same thing, though. e.g. "Wicca is not bad. It is just witchcraft, and most witches are not even evil. Wicca is not even a religion; it is a skill." Or "demons are not bad creatures," as Kaballah teaches. So you have to tread a fine line there.

 

[iamchance]

Yes, Jesus converts these creatures all the time if you view zombies, vampires, etc. as a metaphor for a type of person/unclean spirit.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

you could convey the perspective that...just as many things in the real world appear good but are in fact evil...so do many things appear evil in the real world but are in fact good. The guy in the black hat is the good guy you should be rooting for. So it's a story that explores: if rotting flesh and sucking blood is not what makes you evil, then what does? Something does, but...what?

That sounds 'creative', and far-fetched - things in the world that God Says are evil are evil, Whether they appear evil or not. Not 'many things appear evil ... but are in fact good'.....
Except in the world, to the world, which does not recognize the truth. i.e. mixed messages here....

 

[usexpat97]

Not 'many things appear evil ... but are in fact good'.....

Jesus himself did. Evil traitor of the Roman Empire. The disciples were a bunch of fishermen, tax collectors and misfits claiming to have a direct line to God. Did they go to seminary? Where's their degree? What makes them think they suddenly have this special new "Gospel"?

 

[Spiralbound]

As far as "creative writing" is concerned, I think you've been beat to the punch in writing about some kind of undead which can perhaps be saved in a Christian sense. Barren Cross has a song they wrote back in the late 1980s called "Living Dead" which expresses at least some of the nuances I think you're speaking of here. So, sure. I think you could come up with something like this if you were wanting to write a 'fictional' type of alternative reality story. In fiction, anything is possible, right?

Thanks for the song reference, I hadn't heard of them before. I checked out the song and it's a bit vague at parts. After reading the lyrics, I found it difficult to tell if they're referring to literal undead or if they're condemning those who commit suicide as becoming a living dead, barred from salvation. Either way, an interesting song.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus himself did. Evil traitor of the Roman Empire. The disciples were a bunch of fishermen, tax collectors and misfits claiming to have a direct line to God. Did they go to seminary? Where's their degree? What makes them think they suddenly have this special new "Gospel"?

No. That is what I said - the world's view, apparently.

The ones who go to seminary are usually opposed to Jesus.

He calls and chooses those things that "are not" to confound the "things that are". Is that what seems to be mixed up then ?

Those with 'degrees', Jesus says Yahuweh HIDES SALVATION FROM......

The fishermen He Chose, the tax collector, and misfits, HE SAYS HE CHOSE - and they did not have the Gospel UNTIL the Father in Heaven REVEALED IT TO THEM.

 

[Spiralbound]

"Outside perspectives" ? Outside of what ?

I gave the "Inside Perspective" (God's Stated Perspective In Scripture).

God's Perspective, when it is learned, can be used in 'creative writing' right ?

Fiction, of course, may have no limits, if there is no morality requirements/ right and wrong.

Outside of myself. That's why I was asking on this forum, to get a Christian perspective from faithful Christians. The story I'm writing isn't ABOUT religion, but does has religion as part of the setting and characters.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Outside of myself. That's why I was asking on this forum, to get a Christian perspective from faithful Christians. The story I'm writing isn't ABOUT religion, but does has religion as part of the setting and characters.

What kind of testing do you do, like a reporter* doing interviews for an investigation, to find out / prove/ test who is faithful and who is not ?

*(VERIFY, VERIFY , VERIFY before publishing)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thanks for the song reference, I hadn't heard of them before. I checked out the song and it's a bit vague at parts. After reading the lyrics, I found it difficult to tell if they're referring to literal undead or if they're condemning those who commit suicide as becoming a living dead, barred from salvation. Either way, an interesting song.

It think Barren Cross was trying to say that those who are without Christ as their Savior are, metaphorically speaking, "Living Dead." Of course, in a sense, the same principle driving the inspiration for their song could apply to the fiction you're proposing to write. Depending upon the ontological assertions that underlie beneath it, it could still point to some actual truth in the world.

But whatever, I'm sure you have your own ideas about what would like to express in your writing.

 

[Spiralbound]

Although...a spin on it you could take is that vampires, zombies, etc.--which are purely fictitious creatures anyway--only APPEAR evil, when in fact they are not. So then you have vampires & zombies accept Christ. Fiction has subtle undertones mirroring the real world all the time, and for this, you could convey the perspective that...just as many things in the real world appear good but are in fact evil...so do many things appear evil in the real world but are in fact good. The guy in the black hat is the good guy you should be rooting for. So it's a story that explores: if rotting flesh and sucking blood is not what makes you evil, then what does? Something does, but...what?

That is more or less the angle I'm coming at this from. In the story, humanity and religion have labeled vampires as innately evil due to their consumtion of blood, killing of people, undeath, etc. Thus, if they're innately evil, then they must be a form of demon of course. Even many vampires believe this to be true, especially ones who were formally Christians in life. However, the truth of the setting is that they aren't innately anything. Technically, they don't HAVE to kill people, they could limit themselves to only taking small quantities of blood from someone if they so chose. Thus, their evil behaviour is just that, their behaviour. So... with that context, if one of them were to stumble into circumstances which made them want to protect a group of people, if they were with them long enough to even become converted to Christianity. Would they stand a chance of entering Heaven? Apparently the concensus is "No", but that's fine. The story won't follow the character to their possible afterlife anyway, thus it won't really matter.

Satan does the same thing, though. e.g. "Wicca is not bad. It is just witchcraft, and most witches are not even evil. Wicca is not even a religion; it is a skill." Or "demons are not bad creatures," as Kaballah teaches. So you have to tread a fine line there.

I agree. I have a character I want to portray as being different from common conceptions of what a vampire is, different even from other vampires in the setting. I want to show the conflicts this will cause him as he obviously can't fit into human society, and his beliefs and practices put him at odds with vampire society as well. My intent is to explore that character, not mock real world religions. The religious aspects are there as context for the story, not the purpose of the story, or part of an underlying religious message. My hope is a religious person would read this and consider the ideas as they relate to that character only, not get enraged by a presumed heretical intent outside the story itself.