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We never know of any language what every word means: we don't even know that about English. Words change their meanings over time and depending on context.It's not a matter of knowing the Hebrew language since we all know what every word means now.
SaraJarvis said:I just thought that I'd throw some thoughts in here. Now, I'm not a Christian - BUT, if anti-abortion laws had been passed, then right now I would be sat here with a baby on my knee, would have had to drop out of university (I'm in my third year), be living off my Dad's benefits (he's severely ill) which barely stretch between he and my brother (he's 16, and we don't have a Mother). The father of the baby would have fled, and as a consequence of circumstance, we would be pretty much ruined. I would also have had to put my body (MY body), through 9 months of hell (including morning sickness, don't forget that!), hours of labour, and then child-birth. THEN I would have to deal with the body I'm left with after pregnancy (excess weight, stretch marks, and other medical things). All in the name of a God that I don't believe in. Is that fair? I don't think so.
Instead, I'm sat here working on my dissertation, able to pay for my family to get through this climate, teach my brother, look after my Dad, and work up to being a lecturer, to take financial care of my family in the future. My brother will probably never have a high paying job, as we're very poor, and university rates have shot up, etc.
So, like it or lump it - abortion is NOT evil. If you call me selfish, then you're wrong; I'm working for my family to have a better life. There's no way I could have gone through uni while pregnant - the morning sickness was horrendous, and I would probably have never gone back; I'd have had to take a poor paying job to look after my child. Oh, and just for the record; I was on the pill. Doesn't ALWAYS work.
I'm not a Christian; I believe in science. The only kind of "science" that promotes murder, is those ridiculous abortion videos, made by right-wing Christian fundamentalists.
I do believe in personal responsibility. I was on the pill. I want to take care of my family. I want to look after MY body. I didn't want a baby; I don't see premarital sex as a bad thing. Haha, justify murder? Yes, of course. Because I got rid of the tiny fetus in my womb, I'm justifying all kinds of murder. Of course.
You say God's laws apply; not to me. I don't believe in him, so HOW can they apply? Sorry, but I'm as far left as you can get. I'm currently writing a paper on feminism - but I'd love to hear your argument. That is, if it isn't based off scripture, because that just gets boring.
By the way, you seem to have forgotten one thing; you don't have a womb or a vagina.Isn't that odd.
SaraJarvis said:I'm not a Christian; I believe in science. The only kind of "science" that promotes murder, is those ridiculous abortion videos, made by right-wing Christian fundamentalists.
I do believe in personal responsibility. I was on the pill. I want to take care of my family. I want to look after MY body. I didn't want a baby; I don't see premarital sex as a bad thing. Haha, justify murder? Yes, of course. Because I got rid of the tiny fetus in my womb, I'm justifying all kinds of murder. Of course.
You say God's laws apply; not to me. I don't believe in him, so HOW can they apply? Sorry, but I'm as far left as you can get. I'm currently writing a paper on feminism - but I'd love to hear your argument. That is, if it isn't based off scripture, because that just gets boring.
By the way, you seem to have forgotten one thing; you don't have a womb or a vagina.Isn't that odd.
You realize abstinence would have worked better than the pill, do you? Also, there is such a thing as adoption.
Also, using your "vagina" logic, why shouldn't us men be allowed to keep women out of certain country clubs? You don't have a penis, so scram! Same logic, if you ask me.
It's not just God's law - it's simply the rule of modern-day humans - you don't kill your young. Period.
As for the abortion videos - what exactly is so stupid about those? It's a known fact that the baby's - er, fetus's - brains are sucked out to the point the skull collapses. Do you deny that?
SaraJarvis said:Let's put it this way; apart from my (merciless, heartless, heathen) aborting of a fetus; I live a perfectly moral life. I don't lie, I don't steal. I'm against war (how do YOU feel about the war in Iraq?), against the death penalty (life long imprisonment is humane. You know, that thing that you think abortion isn't? Yet the death penalty is still legal in some Christian states. Hmm.).
In the name of your God, you have started countless wars, killed innocents, suppressed women, railed against gay people, and attempted to make many a person feel inadequate for their "sins". What has happened in the name of atheism? Any wars? Any repression? Not that I'm saying "Atheists are the best!", because I agree in freedom of opinion. Believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want; however, your laws cannot condemn me, because I don't believe in the story of the Bible.
Another thing that I have noticed; you have only brought up the "murder" of my fetus. What about everything else that I mentioned? You have completely ignored my situation. Why is that?
SaraJarvis said:Abstinence? Yes, of course it would! But as an atheist, why would I become celibate? Yes, of course there is adoption. But why should I put my body through torture to give my child to someone else?
I'm not saying that you have no opinion on women, what I'm saying is that you do not suffer pregnancy.
Nope, that's a load of rubbish, too. Their brains aren't sucked out. I had a medical abortion. It stops the fetus from functioning, and then it is expelled. Also; the fetus doesn't HAVE skull at this point. I saw the fetus when it was expelled. It was a blob. That was it.
Are you sure your bitterness toward God and Christians does not stem from your guilt? God is willing to forgive you. We are all sinners whose "good" works fall short of the mark. That is why we need a savior. Salvation is by God's grace (unmerited favor) and not the result of our good works.
The bottom line is that a pregnancy occurs within the body of a woman.
There is no government, no law and no exceptions that should prohibit a woman from receiving medical care for her body, even if there are other people in society who disagree with her medical decision.
We cannot legislate our beliefs about God. What good would it be if we save the unborn and allow a woman to go without salvation? What happens when that unborn child becomes a pregnant woman? Do we ignore her soul at that point in order to save her unborn?
I would think that, as Christians, our focus should always be to exhibit the love of God to others. God himself gives us free will, who are we to take that free will from others?
We cannot and should not legislate what medical care a woman is able to receive. Let God deal with what is a sin and what isn't a sin.
Women do not generally make a decision to abort lightly. It is a major decision that will have effects on her life no matter what she chooses. I just think it is immoral of us to assume that we can make that decision for her or to judge her for making it.
Nice poem. I'll have some of whatever you're smoking.The Lord woke me in the middle of the night at a friends house - pitch dark and nothing to write with - This is how He gives me the poems and I knew I had to find something to write with - I only get them one time and I can't go back and get them later. This is the poem he verly clearly gave me.
GOD NEVER LOSES EVEN ONE
Your pathway has been carefully
planned and designed.
Whether you walk it out on the earth
or spend it with Jesus, all will be fine.
The Word tells us Jesus knew you before you were born.
He tells us your days have been recorded
in the Book of Life where pages are never torn.
Some of you have been discarded and called just "tissue."
Don't worry little one, with God that's not an issue.
Our Father's plans for you will not go astray.
How precious your life is we will still convey.
If you are allowed to complete your journey here on the earth,
either way my child, your existence is recorded as a birth.
If you have not been allowed to minister
to those our Father designed for you here,
your place with Jesus has already been marked for you,
so have no fear.
Jesus tells us the angels will teach you
the oracles of God and His ways.
He will prepare you and you will still recognize
and welcome that mother and father in only a few days.
Forgiveness is waiting for those whose heart is heavy
for the deeds they have done,
for you see sweet child
"God never looses even one."
I don't think God would have given this poem for a glob of tissue. It has saved many babies, there are testimonies that have been sent to me 3 years later saying my child is on stage singing 'Jesus loves me' and all because of that poem.
paintedgoldfish said:The bottom line is that a pregnancy occurs within the body of a woman.
There is no government, no law and no exceptions that should prohibit a woman from receiving medical care for her body, even if there are other people in society who disagree with her medical decision.
We cannot legislate our beliefs about God. What good would it be if we save the unborn and allow a woman to go without salvation? What happens when that unborn child becomes a pregnant woman? Do we ignore her soul at that point in order to save her unborn?
I would think that, as Christians, our focus should always be to exhibit the love of God to others. God himself gives us free will, who are we to take that free will from others?
We cannot and should not legislate what medical care a woman is able to receive. Let God deal with what is a sin and what isn't a sin.
Women do not generally make a decision to abort lightly. It is a major decision that will have effects on her life no matter what she chooses. I just think it is immoral of us to assume that we can make that decision for her or to judge her for making it.
While we are not to judge others, as Christians, we are called to discern right from wrong, and should not support laws which violate God's laws.
SaraJarvis said:Well then, don't support it; live and let live. Allow others to do what they wish, if they choose to. You don't have to support it. Why work to hurt others? Because, trust me; if I had been denied an abortion, then it would have hurt me.
Aside from this; if it was illegal, people would still find ways, and end up killing both themselves and the baby. Ever heard of backstreet abortions? Now THEY were barbaric. Poor women.
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