What I Dislike About Evangelical Services

[freezerman2000]

I once went on retreat to an Episcopal monastery and all of the daily Offices were chanted in old English.Very beautiful,and spine tingling when first heard.

 

[Albion]

I once went on retreat to an Episcopal monastery and all of the daily Offices were chanted in old English.Very beautiful,and spine tingling when first heard.

I'm curious. What do you mean by "Old English?"

 

[Tangible]

If it really was Old English, the instrument that could measure the magnitude of that awesomeness has yet to be invented.

 

[freezerman2000]

1928 BCP style..with all of the "Thee-s,thou-s and art-s".
Reminiscent of the wording of the KJV.

 

[Albion]

1928 BCP style..with all of the "Thee-s,thou-s and art-s".
Reminiscent of the wording of the KJV.

Ah yes. You know, there are hundreds of Anglican churches across the country that use that very wording each Sunday (in case you might be interested. I know of dozens in South Carolina alone).

 

[seeingeyes]

If it really was Old English, the instrument that could measure the magnitude of that awesomeness has yet to be invented.

I agree!

1928 BCP style..with all of the "Thee-s,thou-s and art-s".
Reminiscent of the wording of the KJV.

Oh... That's modern English.

 

[sunlover1]

I had planned to yammer about the other Sacrament, the one that is more relevant to a church service, but it seems I'm not meant to, as every time I try, something gets in the way. I'll just name it instead: Holy Communion (the Eucharist, the Lord's Supper, call it whatever you like best.

I like best to call it what Scripture calls it here: "The Lord's Supper"

I meant style of worship too, actually. What I meant to be brought to the forefront were those things by which we receive the grace to increase in faith: the Word and the Sacraments.
Good idea; I can never get to the point... woe to them to whom I should tell a story!

No, i'm sure I just need to expand my vocabulary
I bet your storytelling skills are excellent!

What I desire, I guess, is what I've said before. The Word and the Eucharist are central to the Church's actions, along with prayer and community.

So you feel that a "Church service" should consist of Scripture reading,
The Lord's Supper, and praying and fellowship.. Am I hearing you correctly?

These were the things that the believers in Acts were said to have devoted themselves to.

Oh, okay. I see what you're looking at:

42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship,
to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe
at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles.
44 All the believers were together and had everything in common.
45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.
46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts.
They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and
sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Yes, they did this EVERY DAY actually.
And ALSO, they sold their stuff to give to the poor...
The met daily, in the temple..
They ate together in their homes with sincere hearts..
Praising God !! Sounds amazing!!
Is that what your non evangelical churches do?

But in the Evangelical services of my experience, there wasn't much of that.

Which evangelical churches have you visited that did not pray and
celebrate the Lord's Supper or devote themselves to the Apostles
teachings and fellowship?
Because I've never been in one that doesn't, although my list is short

Even among the Restorationists, which have a weekly Communion (though it's taught as just a symbolic way to help you remember Jesus), it wasn't treated like a moment where we are "partakers of one Loaf", where we are made members of one another, where we "proclaim the death of the Lord," etc., it was just "that thing we do."

Oh, I see,.. they DID indeed celebrate the Lord's Supper, but they didn't
do it the way you felt that they should.
Is that correct?

The people had their own cliques and circles, and barely acknowledged the rest, even as they were supposed to have no "divisions" among them.

I have seen that! In every church I've attended all of my life.. be it
evangelical or otherwise, people are so ... "cliquey"
In fact, even the NT folks were guilty of that crap.
Nothing new under the sun

I suppose that individualism is the root of my objection. The mentality that it's ultimately all about me and my personal relationship with Jesus, so I don't really need anyone else.

How odd that they'd bother to meet together if they have such
a mentality of not needing each other.
What a waste of their time to get up get ready, fight the warfare to even
get to the church building when really, they're not interested in community...

 

[freezerman2000]

Got one in my hometown..Unfortunately, I have to work almost every Sunday!
When done in the monastic style,there is almost no comparison in my opinion.

 

[Albion]

Got one in my hometown..Unfortunately, I have to work almost every Sunday!
When done in the monastic style,there is almost no comparison in my opinion

.

Yes, I know just what you mean.

 

[freezerman2000]

Oh... That's modern English.

Modern English would be the BCP that Episcopalians use now.

 

[freezerman2000]

Gotta go to work..
Peace!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I agree!



Oh... That's modern English.

yeah the really OLDE english is like part german .

 

[Knee V]

yeah the really OLDE english is like part german .

Well, it was a West Germanic language, and it was just as "German" as the dialects spoken on the continent. But it stems from the dialects that weren't affected by the High German consonant shift.

 

[Joykins]

1928 BCP style..with all of the "Thee-s,thou-s and art-s".
Reminiscent of the wording of the KJV.

Ahh...that's early modern English, like Shakespeare. Middle English would be like Chaucer and the Gawain Poet. Old English...well...

This is Old English (Luke 2):

1 Soþlice on þam dagum wæs geworden gebod fram þam casere augusto. þæt eall ymbehwyrft wære tomearcod;
2 (þeos tomearcodnes wæs æryst geworden fram þam deman syrige cirino. )
3 and ealle hig eodon. and syndrie ferdon on hyra ceastre;
4 þa ferde iosep fram galilea of þære ceastre nazareþ: on iudeisce ceastre dauides. seo is genemned beþleem
5 (forþam þe he wæs of dauides huse. and hirede) þæt he ferde mid marian þe him beweddod wæs. and wæs geeacnod;
6 Soðlice wæs geworden þa hi þar wæron. hire dagas wæron gefyllede þæt heo cende.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, it was a West Germanic language, and it was just as "German" as the dialects spoken on the continent. But it stems from the dialects that weren't affected by the High German consonant shift.

hahah yeah i heard of the great vowel shift . lol

but was also reminiscing of that time i opened up a copy of the old english bible and noticed it was full of german verbs . definitely "greek" to me

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

hahah yeah i heard of the great vowel shift . lol

but was also reminiscing of that time i opened up a copy of the old english bible and noticed it was full of german verbs . definitely "greek" to me

Das ist gut; nein?

 

[freezerman2000]

Oh well,you guys get my drift,anyway..
It's older English than what we speak now...lol

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Oh well,you guys get my drift,anyway..
It's older English than what we speak now...lol

Ha, we've got it now. Shakespeare and King James are known as Elizabeth and Jacobean English, or Middle English if you prefer (although it's at the tail end of Middle English and heading into modern). Old English is virtually a different language from a thousand years earlier.

 

[PaladinValer]

Ha, we've got it now. Shakespeare and King James are known as Elizabeth and Jacobean English, or Middle English if you prefer (although it's at the tail end of Middle English and heading into modern). Old English is virtually a different language from a thousand years earlier.

I might be mistaken, but Middle English's duration is usually recorded as from the Norman Invasion to the 15th century. By the 1400's, due to political upheaval, the House of Plantagenet split into two: Lancaster and York. This lead to the historic War of the Roses, from which the Tudors would ascend to the throne and also people from an entirely different area of the country, including some lower class folk, would rise to new levels of authority.

This meant that the royal language shifted towards how these folk spoke, which means linguistical changes. With the advent of English translations of the Bible, particularly Tyndale's and the Great Bible, as well as the Book of Common Prayer, this new English would become widely accessible and popularized. By the mid 16th century, English had evolved into what is often called "Early Modern English", which is the English of the Bard, the Elizabethan Court, "post-Pope" Anglicanism, and the Chancery Standard.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I might be mistaken, but Middle English's duration is usually recorded as from the Norman Invasion to the 15th century. By the 1400's, due to political upheaval, the House of Plantagenet split into two: Lancaster and York. This lead to the historic War of the Roses, from which the Tudors would ascend to the throne and also people from an entirely different area of the country, including some lower class folk, would rise to new levels of authority.

This meant that the royal language shifted towards how these folk spoke, which means linguistical changes. With the advent of English translations of the Bible, particularly Tyndale's and the Great Bible, as well as the Book of Common Prayer, this new English would become widely accessible and popularized. By the mid 16th century, English had evolved into what is often called "Early Modern English", which is the English of the Bard, the Elizabethan Court, "post-Pope" Anglicanism, and the Chancery Standard.

No, you're totally right. I was just being sloppy. I was about to put something about Chaucer being the exemplar of Middle English in order to be more precise, but I guess I'm just lazy tonight. Cheers!