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- Jan 8, 2011
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I reckon that this thread really ought to be called
The Sabbath is all that matters and you all know it, so neyah!
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The " I Am" .Who's property is the Ten Commandments? You know I'm going to requires Biblical support, so give that also.
Where is it identified that it was "the Father" that spoke to Moses? Did the text not just say God?So who has a problem? Me, The Bible or them? I believe it is them. They say it is me and refuse to consult the Bible.
God said no man can see God and live. Ex 33:20 This causes several problems if Jesus gave the Ten Commandments at Sinai.
1. God the Father lied.
2. Jesus God the Son lied if He did as accused.
3. Moses lied.
4. John lied.
5. Interferes with the Trinity doctrine.
Personally I don't like any of those problems and believe the Bible agrees with itself on every issue.
"The pre-incarnate Christ gave Moses the law. Christ is the author of the law. Moses was his servant."
You're very free to twist passages to mean anything you like.The " I Am" .
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
John 8: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
1Cor. 10: 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Can we truly separate the character, principle and will of the Father from that of Jesus?
In light of the rest of the Bible we understand that Moses referred to God the Father. But in your perspective it clearly doesn't refer to Jesus.Where is it identified that it was "the Father" that spoke to Moses? Did the text not just say God?
Hogwash!From The Orthodox Study Bible:
There's more.
We live in the grace of the lawgiver.
God be gracious to me a sinner.
Hogwash!
So I guess Moses lied. This makes him and the Bible untrustworthy about anything.REPOST: from: http://www.christianforums.com/t7595576-11/
here are the some verses again for you:
exodus says they saw God and 1jn says no one has seen God. there can be no contradiction.
so, the One we know as Jesus is the answer!
Me neither.i definitely haven't found any scripture that suggests it was God's Holy Spirit.
now here's more scripture for proof!
Exodus 14:19-20,24(NKJV)
19And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud
went from before them and stood behind them. 20So it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of
Israel. Thus it was a cloud and darkness to the one, and it gave light by night to the other, so that the one did
not come near the other all that night... 24Now it came to pass, in the morning watch, that the Lord looked down
upon the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud, and He troubled the army of the
Egyptians.
the phrase "Angel of God" is referring to God and not some angel. the Angel of God in this instance is the
one we know as the Christ.No sir! that is nothing more than conjecture, speculation and personal opinion.More conjecture, speculation and personal opinion.Exodus 24:15-16(NKJV)
15Then Moses went up into the mountain, and a cloud covered the mountain.
16Now the glory of the Lord rested on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days. And on the
seventh day He called to Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
God talked to moses from the cloud. so, we know who's in the cloud. from the verses that john wrote, i.e.
jn 1:18, we know this could not be God the Father.
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
This verse from John 1 is a direct statement Jesus didn't give the law.No sir this is inflicting on the text what isn't there.Exodus 33:9-10(NKJV)
9And it came to pass, when Moses entered the tabernacle, that the pillar of cloud descended and stood at the
door of the tabernacle, and the Lord talked with Moses.
10All the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the tabernacle door, and all the people rose and
worshiped, each man in his tent door.
Numbers 14:14(NKJV)
14and they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that You, Lord, are among these people;
that You, Lord, are seen face to face and Your cloud stands above them, and You go before them in a
pillar of cloud by day and in a pillar of fire by night.
can't get much clearer on Who's going before the COI in a pillar of cloud!You have no understanding about the word Christ. Christ is a title of an office holder and not a name. Thus it can be applied in different ways. This doesn't establish Moses spoke to that cloud or fire.1 Corinthians 10:1-4(NKJV)
1Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed
through the sea,
2all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3all ate the same spiritual food,
4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock
was Christ.No that rock wasn't Jesus, sorry.you see?
you don't have to believe me, just believe the bible.
the bible says it was Christ!
"and that Rock was Christ"
No sir! If you meant the you was Israel I might agree. But you mean and use the word "you" to mean those who don't keep the Sabbath. Thus you're making a false accusation which is called flaming and against the rules here. Its a statement about not being a Christian.Look at the circumstances, God brings mana down, He is there by fire at night and cloud by day, He speaks to you directly, parts the sea, miracle after miracle. He then tells you do this or that and you refuse, right there in front of His face, and God should do nothing? You are absolutely reject ing God and life.
It is death to all who rejects God. Duet. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
What do you think would happen to us who now rejects God. You think that because we do not drop down dead now that it is different? The death now is not the real death!
So I guess Moses lied. This makes him and the Bible untrustworthy about anything.Me neither.now here's more scripture for proof![/COLOR]
Exodus 14:19-20,24(NKJV)
19And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of cloud
went from before them and stood behind them. 20So it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of
Israel. Thus it was a cloud and darkness to the one, and it gave light by night to the other, so that the one did
not come near the other all that night... 24Now it came to pass, in the morning watch, that the Lord looked down
upon the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud, and He troubled the army of the
Egyptians.
the phrase "Angel of God" is referring to God and not some angel. the Angel of God in this instance is the
one we know as the Christ.No sir! that is nothing more than conjecture, speculation and personal opinion. More conjecture, speculation and personal opinion.
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
This verse from John 1 is a direct statement Jesus didn't give the law.No sir this is inflicting on the text what isn't there.You have no understanding about the word Christ. Christ is a title of an office holder and not a name. Thus it can be applied in different ways. This doesn't establish Moses spoke to that cloud or fire.No that rock wasn't Jesus, sorry.
interesting!
I'm a Christian, not a Jewish citizen of Israel. I'm not with Moses thousands of years back rejecting God I've already accepted him. You example is absolutely bogus.Look at the circumstances, God brings mana down, He is there by fire at night and cloud by day, He speaks to you directly, parts the sea, miracle after miracle. He then tells you do this or that and you refuse, right there in front of His face, and God should do nothing? You are absolutely reject ing God and life.
It is death to all who rejects God. Duet. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
What do you think would happen to us who now rejects God. You think that because we do not drop down dead now that it is different? The death now is not the real death!
I'm a Christian, not a Jewish citizen of Israel. I'm not with Moses thousands of years back rejecting God I've already accepted him. You example is absolutely bogus.
Hogwash!
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=17&v=3&t=KJV#s=946003
Sure I'll be happy to talk about it. Do you have some good Bible passages to quote?Want to talk about it?
Christ God was also the creator of Adam and Eve, he was the one walking in the garden in Genesis.
The earliest catechumenates were taught about Genesis and how Christ was the one throughout the OT. (See the first few lines of John 1)
The creator came to re-create us. That is Christiainity.
Christ did not die to appease the Father.
God be gracious to me a sinner.
Really? I don't understand how one arrives at that conclusion from the text. Please explain.Moses was also shown to be a friend of Christ during the Transfiguration. (Matthew 17)
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=17&v=3&t=KJV#s=946003
God be gracious to me a sinner.
From The Orthodox Study Bible:
There's more.
We live in the grace of the lawgiver.
God be gracious to me a sinner.
Gen 1:26 - 3:15. Rev 4:11 - 5:1-7.Huh?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Anything and everything in the plan of salvation was done with Christ.
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