What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

[squint]

Its not guesswork. Demons wish it were, But, its not guesswork. Satan will be locked up for 1000 years. If you can read Revelation and not see that? That may explain your problem with rightly handling the Word of God.

Our views are so far apart on that subject it's not even worth attempting.

Do I believe that 1000 years to be LITERAL?

Uh, that would be a firm NO.

Time itself in the text can be both literal time and allegorical time.

I doubt you could even tell the difference or how to derive 'the time.'

Look... I played your game long enough. Anyone here at this point who can not see through you is not worth any more exposing of you for how you can not give direct and straight answers to actual questions What's been done should be enough.

No, you're holding up some distorted view of Revelation to deny sin being of the devil. So what else is new in the world of excuses for the devil and sin? You think that is a new act or something?

s

 

[from scratch]

He won't touch it. He'll try to find something else in my post to address.

Exactly. Welcome to the world of obfuscation. Its a fine art here in GT. We also call it dodge ball debate. One would think we're nothing more than politicians.

 

[from scratch]

If you think I'm interested in hearing anyone justify their sin which is of the devil, you'd be very wrong.

So who exactly is doing this? And while you're naming them we want to know the sin they're hiding or covering up.

 

[squint]

So who exactly is doing this? And while you're naming them we want to know the sin they're hiding or covering up.

In relationship to the commandments, every commandment condemns sin, which is of the DEVIL.

The Law in this way, remains against every worker of iniquity.

Those who claim they are legally obedient are lying. Those who throw away the law to justify their sins are just as guilty.

Both activities are done in people who are trying to hide their sins and justify the demonic.

s

 

[squint]

Exactly. Welcome to the world of obfuscation. Its a fine art here in GT. We also call it dodge ball debate. One would think we're nothing more than politicians.

No, genez thinks he's going to dodge his sin being of the devil on the contrived basis of some end time understanding, as if that changes the fact of sin being of the devil.

It doesn't.

s

 

[GenemZ]

So who exactly is doing this? And while you're naming them we want to know the sin they're hiding or covering up.

FYI.. He's now on my Ignore list. All he is good for is testing by God to see if we are going to break forum rules. For that purpose he is here amongst us. He is not here to build up at all, only to try to tear down where ever he can. But, he does not realize that about himself. In his eyes he thinks he is just facing the facts.



Funny.. I would not call it a game of dodge ball. Its more like a game of goof ball..

Grace and peace..

 

[squint]

It is no slur to any believer that the law is against sin and evil and that sin is of the devil.

These are some of the most elemental understandings of Christiandom and are no cause for anyone's anger.

Well, almost anyone. If we look at the components it is interesting to observe 'who' may find dispute in the fact findings.

s

 

[GenemZ]

I have a problem with people who are obsessed with end times.

Is a major part of the Word of God. Who's obsessed? I mention one pertinent passage from the Book of Revelation... are you saying I am being obsessed?

I have been taught the Book of Revelation by a pastor-teacher who is a Hebrew and Greek scholar, who hates sensation seekers. He taught us from a historical perspective, not hysterical.. as many fundamentalist do.

The fact remains. Satan will be locked up for a 1000 years. Men who will be living in that perfect environment will still be sinning without his presence in their lives. That's I referred to. And, all I intended to.

I see you are a newbie here. Next time try grasping the intent of the flow of the thread, rather than gab onto a keyword and running with it. It disrupts, and allows for the confronted one to take cover while someone like you introduces a new distraction. Inadvertently, you are being used to form a spiritual tag team. Not good in the light of who you just offered cover to.

In the mean time..

James 1:14
​

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (not the devil's)


​

once again... it was never answered, the real question.
Matthew 4:1

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

​

Did the devil get inside Jesus when he was tempted of him, as someone here claims the word "of" indicates? It says that Jesus was tempted 'of' the devil. Just like when we sin, we are 'of' the devil. When we sin we take on an expression of self that is representative of Satan's nature. When we sin we are acting like Satan does all the time.


and..



Again I will tell you..

Satan will be locked up for one thousand years during the Millennium. People will still be sinning.
​

Men do not need Satan to be present in order to sin. He will be released at the end of the thousand years, so then men will ORGANIZE their sinfulness into a purpose against the Lord.

Satan organizes sinners. He, nor demons, do not have to be in our presence to make one sin, though at times demons will tempt a person when it suites their objective to maneuver that person to work for their desired outcome.

 

[Wordkeeper]

genez wrote:

In the mean time..
James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (not the devil's)

Wrong context. There is nothing here that refutes the view that that we are tempted, drawn away and enticed by the Devil, manifested in our sin nature, which Paul explains in Romans 7:20 to be not the real "us".

Context of the quoted text:

James 1:13-15
English Standard Version (ESV)
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

Romans 7
20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

once again... it was never answered, the real question.
Matthew 4:1

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Did the devil get inside Jesus when he was tempted of him, as someone here claims the word "of" indicates? It says that Jesus was tempted 'of' the devil. Just like when we sin, we are 'of' the devil. When we sin we take on an expression of self that is representative of Satan's nature. When we sin we are acting like Satan does all the time.

Jesus faced all the problems ordinary men did, differing only in succeeding where ordinary men failed, in overcoming those problems. So if Paul says we have something inside us which is not us, but tempting us, then Jesus had the same obstacle.

 

[GenemZ]

genez wrote:


Wrong context. There is nothing here that refutes the view that that we are tempted, drawn away and enticed by the Devil, manifested in our sin nature, which Paul explains in Romans 7:20 to be not the real "us".

I have no problem with that, Squint... I asked him several times.. claims that when you sin? The devil is sharing with you in that sin. Like he joins with you in its experience. That is not simply being tempted by the devil. That amounts to a temporary demon possession. Do you believe that is what happens when you sin, even if you were tempted by the devil? THAT was the problem I was having with his reasoning. And, when brought down to brass tacs, he would always be evasive. I am not the only one here who has a serious problem with his irrational take. Matter of fact, I only met him here recently. It did not take long for him to win a place on my Ignore list.

You are trying to be reasonable about this. And, I agree that the devil will tempt us to sin. But not all sinning was the result of demonic temptation. Sometimes its just out own flesh having a tantrum wanting its own way. That was my point. But, maybe you ought to backtrack to see what was taking place. Squint has a very odd view of the activity the devil experiences when we ever sin.

Jesus faced all the problems ordinary men did, differing only in succeeding where ordinary men failed, in overcoming those problems. So if Paul says we have something inside us which is not us, but tempting us, then Jesus had the same obstacle.

Jesus was temptable, just like Adam was temptable. If Adam never gave into the temptation he would not have sinned. If Adam did not sin? He would not have fallen and taken on the sin nature in his flesh. The same fallen nature that he passed down to all of us via human sexual reproduction. The sin nature resides in the flesh.

Jesus was born as Adam had been originally created from the hand of God. Jesus had no sin nature. But, just like Adam, he was capable of being tempted. Unlike Adam, Jesus refused all temptations. Jesus over came the world. While Adam brought the world down.

 

[squint]

Jesus faced all the problems ordinary men did, differing only in succeeding where ordinary men failed, in overcoming those problems. So if Paul says we have something inside us which is not us, but tempting us, then Jesus had the same obstacle.

Not quite. The temptation of Jesus was not identical to ours. Satan had nothing in Him, meaning not internal temptation and He also had no sin. His mind had no 'evil defiling thoughts' by the internal temptation of the tempter.

"Like us" 'but without sin' is a pretty major difference and I would consider it crucial to delineate that difference.

s

 

[squint]

I don't need you to mangle my statements with your fantasies genez.

I have no problem with that, Squint... I asked him several times.. claims that when you sin? The devil is sharing with you in that sin. Like he joins with you in its experience. That is not simply being tempted by the devil. That amounts to a temporary demon possession. Do you believe that is what happens when you sin, even if you were tempted by the devil? THAT was the problem I was having with his reasoning. And, when brought down to brass tacs, he would always be evasive. I am not the only one here who has a serious problem with his irrational take. Matter of fact, I only met him here recently. It did not take long for him to win a place on my Ignore list.

You are trying to be reasonable about this. And, I agree that the devil will tempt us to sin. But not all sinning was the result of demonic temptation. Sometimes its just out own flesh having a tantrum wanting its own way. That was my point. But, maybe you ought to backtrack to see what was taking place. Squint has a very odd view of the activity the devil experiences when we ever sin.

 

[Wordkeeper]

A good time to regroup and review what we have learned.


The Conflict of Two Natures
Romans 7
14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.


Paul, in describing the universal condition of man, speaks of the conflict between his spiritual side and his fleshly side.

The Fleshly Side.

Old Testament commentaries call it the evil inclination. The term is drawn from the phrase "the imagination of the heart of man [is] evil" (Hebrew: יֵצֶר לֵב הָאָדָם רַע, yetzer lev-ha-adam ra),
which occurs twice in the Hebrew Bible, at Genesis 6:5 and 8:21.

This is the part of us that strives to overcome competition from others without any consideration for their rights as property holders or fellow inhabitants of this world. This is not intrinsically evil, because without it God's creatures would have no desire to eat or procreate. It is the uncontrolled exercising of these appetites that make them evil. Controlled exercising of our natural drives is the spiritual side, being appetites that are pursued with consideration for others, manifesting themselves as acts of justice, mercy and love. Commentaries label it the good inclination, the spiritual nature or side, and it is developed, learned over a period out time, the yetzer hatov.

Little children act instinctively, and we lay no blame on them because those actions are natural, without premeditation. You could say God made them that way, supported by Jesus's comment that the kingdom of God belonged to such as these, creatures created by God, acting as God made them, with no influence or direction from their individual persons. Sinless just as animals are sinless. God loves them because they are "of" Him.

It is only when these same children grow, receive teaching, gain experience in differentiating right from wrong do their actions become tinged with rightness or wrongness. If a person walks according to his fleshly nature, he is only rejecting the ability of learning right from wrong God has given him, and he is accountable:

John 9
18The Jews then did not believe it of him, that he had been blind and had received sight, until they called the parents of the very one who had received his sight, 19and questioned them, saying, “Is this your son, who you say was born blind? Then how does he now see?” 20His parents answered them and said, “We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; 21but how he now sees, we do not know; or who opened his eyes, we do not know. Ask him; he is of age, he will speak for himself.” 22His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews; for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed Him to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue. 23For this reason his parents said, “He is of age; ask him.”

If Men learn to differentiate between right and wrong and desire to walk according to the spiritual nature, they have become sensitive and responsive to the ability to learn right from wrong God has given us, and He rewards this obedience with the actual ability to act righteously through the gift of His Son.

Hebrews 11
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

John 3
16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

God loves those who are born again because they are born of the Spirit, "of" Him. They have grown the way He desired for them to grow.

 

[Sophrosyne]

What I have "learned" is that the Law in the old Testament was "given" to a group of sinners and it didn't save them nor change their attitude towards God it only curbed sin mainly because of the looming threat of death for breaking it. The Law didn't increase faith, nor did it inspire obedience, nor did it increase righteousness, instead it just showed the complete depravity of men and was a stumbling block owned by Israel. I am so glad I am not stuck under such a system that Jesus kept the Law to free everyone who has faith in him from it.. forever.
It is amazing how people take one simple verse of Paul and throw it in the trash, stomp on it, and spit on Paul himself like he was insane when he wrote it. How can someone be in the spirit AND under the Law at the same time unless Paul was an outright liar and fraud? The Bible talks about being in the spirit and being in the flesh.. and doesn't equate one can do BOTH at the same time. I say if you want to keep the Law you ARE putting yourself UNDER it and ARE telling the Holy Spirit in you to essentially.. TAKE A HIKE, that the Law is BETTER than he is. I choose to follow the spirit, and tell the legalists to TAKE A HIKE.

 

[squint]

What I have "learned" is that the Law in the old Testament was "given" to a group of sinners and it didn't save them nor change their attitude towards God it only curbed sin mainly because of the looming threat of death for breaking it. The Law didn't increase faith, nor did it inspire obedience, nor did it increase righteousness, instead it just showed the complete depravity of men and was a stumbling block owned by Israel. I am so glad I am not stuck under such a system that Jesus kept the Law to free everyone who has faith in him from it.. forever.
It is amazing how people take one simple verse of Paul and throw it in the trash, stomp on it, and spit on Paul himself like he was insane when he wrote it. How can someone be in the spirit AND under the Law at the same time unless Paul was an outright liar and fraud? The Bible talks about being in the spirit and being in the flesh.. and doesn't equate one can do BOTH at the same time. I say if you want to keep the Law you ARE putting yourself UNDER it and ARE telling the Holy Spirit in you to essentially.. TAKE A HIKE, that the Law is BETTER than he is. I choose to follow the spirit, and tell the legalists to TAKE A HIKE.

Antinomianism above.

Sin remains condemned under the law in whomever it is found, which is in all. The death penalty for sin has been in place since Adam.

The 'son of the flesh' is still in conflict with the 'son of promise.' We just don't perceive it as transpiring between our own two ears.

Believers are called to divide from the slaveship of sin. Believers who are led to lie about being sinners, who justify their sins under grace, who deny Gods Words are merely showing sons of the flesh continuing realities.

In the final analysis, sin is of the devil.

The law is written against that lawless one. The law is not made to make the tempter behave, but to aggravate the condition until sin is known for what it is.

When we draw near to God, we do so with an evil conscience.

Believers are led to think the entirety of themselves is only heaped with Grace and obedience.

That is not the case.

Abraham had two external flesh sons. Abraham also had a son of the flesh and a son of promise in his own lump of flesh. The external matter of Abrahams two sons is in fact a picture of our own sinful condition. Just as it is in many other showings in the scriptures. Cain and Abel, Esau and Jacob are like pictures.

Sons of promise will understand these correlations. Sons of the flesh will resist the same Words. Both struggle between our own two ears.

The Law is against sons of the flesh. That same Law is the ally of sons of the promise. Certainly no wonder why there is continual struggle on the subject matter when the struggle is within us all.

s

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is no slur to any believer that the law is against sin and evil and that sin is of the devil.

These are some of the most elemental understandings of Christiandom and are no cause for anyone's anger.

Well, almost anyone. If we look at the components it is interesting to observe 'who' may find dispute in the fact findings.

s

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS AND PAUL VS THE JUDEAN RULERS

John 8:44
"Ye out of a father, the devil are,
and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing".


.

 

[GenemZ]

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS AND PAUL VS THE JUDEAN RULERS

John 8:44
"Yeout of a father, the devil are,
and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing".


.

Doing the desire of the devil, is to be doing what he desires of man to do. That does not mean he jumps in and shares with the sinner in his sin. Ever notice how Squint is always mentioning how what he says angers believers? I asked him many times to clarify if he believes that the Devil is intimately sharing with us in the sin. He always evaded a straight answer. The best I could extract from him was..."Well, do the math." He never disagreed with my assessment. So, he is on Ignore.

 

[squint]

Doing the desire of the devil, is to be doing what he desires of man to do. That does not mean he jumps in and shares with the sinner in his sin. Ever notice how Squint is always mentioning how what he says angers believers?

I really don't need you to speak for me genez. And obviously it seems to bother you that the scripture connects sin to being of the devil.

Being tempted in mind by the tempter is not a recent development in christian understanding.

s

 

[GenemZ]

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
JESUS AND PAUL VS THE JUDEAN RULERS

John 8:44
"Yeout of a father, the devil are,
and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing".

Little Lamb... John 8:44 was spoken to evil unbelievers, not believers.

The twisting of the meaning, to mean that the desire *and its fulfillment* is being co-experienced with Satan and the believer is tantamount to momentary demon possession.

1 John 4:4

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because
greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


​

The only one who is in the believer is the Holy Spirit. Satan is external. It says that he is only in the world.

If Satan desires that someone commit adultery? And, the person commits that sin? That does not mean while that man, while having illicit sex, that Satan was possessing his body. Squint simply tells you to do the math, because he confuses "of" Satan, for "with" Satan. That is how Squint has distorted the meaning "of" the Devil.

1 John 4:4

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because
greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


​

Satan is in the world -and in demon possessed people- only. He never gets IN the believer... though his thoughts can. This malady more than evident with believers who promote false doctrine. (1 Tim 4:1) For its doctrines of demons. These believers are demon influenced. But, never demon possessed if they are a believer in Jesus Christ.

I do not wish to keep repeating this. But its only most recently. Squint is on my Ignore list. If he says something that you would like me to address, just let me know. As far as dialoguing with him, I am through. His teaching about when we sin is tantamount to temporary demon possession. The Holy Spirit has no guest room in the temple he now has taken up his permanent residence forever. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you,
whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?


​

I hope everyone here reads that. We are not our own. We are the property of the Lord. The Lord would never allow any demon access into where he lives. What Squint teaches about the meaning of "of" the devil is blasphemy. God owns our temple! Not us. Who enters that temple is not up to us. God is not going to have Satan walk through the door, even if we choose to leave it unlocked.

 

[squint]

His teaching about when we sin is tantamount to temporary demon possession.

Sorry genez, temptation in mind by the tempter is NOT possession and is common to man, particularly believers.

Too bad you want to hold up lies claiming they are my statements.

The TANT(rum)AMOUNT is your own inserted imagination and continuing slur attempts.

s