What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

Elder 111 · Jan 3, 2014

VictorC said:
Do you realize that you proved my observation to be correct?

There is no mention of "Ten Commandments" found anywhere in verse 27:
And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

And what does the Law say?
Exodus 12
43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it. 44 But every mans servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him, then he may eat it. 45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat it. 46 In one house it shall be eaten; you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house, nor shall you break one of its bones. 47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. 48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.

Your burden of proof is for the sabbath, and you can't seem to remember this. When the High Sabbath comes around, you transgress the Law in order to fabricate a argument of feigned compliance. In the end, you threw away the sabbath and falsified your claims.

To remind you of your claims you can't find support for:

In your contentions you violate the Law you make your boast in, by speaking directly contrary to its own testimony from God speaking to Moses. As a seventh-day Adventist you have torn Exodus 31 from your copy of the Bible, and you argue that others should do the same and violate the Law as you do.

You are desperately trying to prove me wrong and failing miserably to do so.

The text from Exodus 12 has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
You purposely, for I fail to see you not realizing it, that in the context of Romans 2 the law spoken of is the Ten Commandments. (that have been demonstrated already) 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Now tell everyone which Commandments these are taken from? Does Exodus 12 speak of the same?
Verse 27 now speak of fulfilling, that is doing. Doing what? The law! What law? The Ten Commandments! Who want to be foolish can believe you, not the wise in Christ.

VictorC · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
You are desperately trying to prove me wrong and failing miserably to do so.

Let's make this simple. Your last episode showed that you discarded the sabbath, concurrent with your unsupported claims that Gentiles and God's adopted children are asked and/or commanded to keep the sabbath.

The bottom line is that you're a miserable failure. You contradicted the Law and speak from utter darkness.

Sophrosyne · Jan 3, 2014

genez said:
I do understand what you were getting at. But, the Ten Commandments were only a small part of the Law.

The Law of Moses actually was given for that means. The 10 C's were not enough. There were no punishments mentioned in the 10's. Punishment is what was used in the Law to keep the people from self destructing.

Galatians 3:19a

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Grace and peace.....

Actually the 10 were the major part of the Law so much that God emphasized their importance to Israel by inscribing them into stone.
I think he was drastic in dealing with sin by death, but I think it had a twofold effect in that it got rid of many who were not interested in God, and it discouraged those who wanted to be part of the nation just for benefits of it not to be a part of God's chosen people.

from scratch · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
You are desperately trying to prove me wrong and failing miserably to do so.

The text from Exodus 12 has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

You purposely, for I fail to see you not realizing it, that in the context of Romans 2 the law spoken of is the Ten Commandments. (that have been demonstrated already) 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Now tell everyone which Commandments these are taken from? Does Exodus 12 speak of the same?

Verse 27 now speak of fulfilling, that is doing. Doing what? The law! What law? The Ten Commandments! Who want to be foolish can believe you, not the wise in Christ.

You take the quoting of a commandment in any way as requiring to keep it. You should ask what is Paul really doing here. Is he requiring the keeping of the law? No!

Does Ex 12 apply to the Ten Commandments? Yes because circumcision is a requirement to participate in the rituals of the covenant. Circumcision is part of the law.

Sophrosyne · Jan 3, 2014

from scratch said:
You take the quoting of a commandment in any way as requiring to keep it. You should ask what is Paul really doing here. Is he requiring the keeping of the law? No!

Does Ex 12 apply to the Ten Commandments? Yes because circumcision is a requirement to participate in the rituals of the covenant. Circumcision is part of the law.

There are two Abrahams.... the carnal one who was given a covenant and whom birthed future Israel whom carried on circumcision and the spiritual Abraham who exemplified faith in God. People who tie carnality to Faith destroy that Faith the two don't really mix. One can do deeds out of faith but to demand deeds of faith makes it not of faith. To demand circumcision and tie it to faith.... makes it undone because then you are saying faith cannot exist without it which is false. This is the same thing they are doing with the Sabbath trying to tie it into faith saying without it you don't have faith which is false. Faith comes before salvation and we are a sinner before salvation so our compliance to the Law prior to saving faith is MEANINGLESS as if we are 100% compliant do we need faith at all? If we are 99% compliant we are 0% compliant according to God and still need saving faith.

from scratch · Jan 3, 2014

genez said:
He is not even close to a Jew. I was born and raised Jewish. People like that used to make me think religion is nonsense when I was growing up. So proud of the acts they do in the name of God, but one look at their soul it made me wonder what kind of world they live in. I am glad when I got saved that the Holy Spirit opened my eyes that life with Christ is beyond religion. Religious people are self deluded. All forms of religion is Satan's cheap substitute.

This is the only religion the Bible approves of..

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows

in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

What can you say to someone who has no ears to hear? He's not my problem. His problem will take place when he appears before the Lord who has a great disdain for Pharisaical souls.

Very well written!

from scratch · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Do you know what fulfill means?
It means to do, to carry out, to comply with. So that in verse 27 it clearly states that the Gentles who complied or carried out the requirements of the Ten Commandments will judge the Jews.
Circumcision has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments!
God is just marvelous!

I guess your trying to show those who observed the law will have the opportunity to judge and condemn those who don't at the judgment. Wrong-o. Men will appear before God the Judge - not men.

from scratch · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Originally Posted by genez

Good point!

This is all that was ever commanded of the Gentiles by Law abiding believer Jews.

Acts 15:19-20

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

No mention of them keeping the Sabbath. SDA's are primarily Gentiles, who believed.

genez's argument is flawed isn't it? There is no mention of even worshiping God alone, nor coveting etc. does that mean we are free to do those things? Get rid of the stupid arguments and face the facts.

Why do you insist on arguing some here say the Christian has the right to sin? The only one making such a statement are the SDA people. Where did God grant the right to sin prior to the law?

GenemZ · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Do you know what fulfill means?
It means to do, to carry out, to comply with. So that in verse 27 it clearly states that the Gentles who complied or carried out the requirements of the Ten Commandments will judge the Jews.
Circumcision has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments!
God is just marvelous!

The Jerusalem church was crushed by God like a gnat because they remained stubbornly zealous for the Law. They had rejected the Christian way of life which is to be by walking in grace and Truth. In 70 AD God's foot came down.

The Jerusalem Church was given about 40 years to get right with God. How much time has God given you so far? To live by the Law is like riding a horse on a super highway and then demanding that everyone slow down.

Having been a Jew from birth, I have no sympathy for your nonsense. I felt the same way towards the very religious Jews. You both share in a mental state that is driven to finding self satisfaction by seeing yourselves fulfilling what can be seen - works of the Law.

I wish you well, and that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of your heart to first be made able to see yourself.. That it is yourself you seek to please, done in the name of the Lord, But, not pleasing the Lord who told us there was a time coming when we will need to worship God in spirit and Truth. NOT, by following the Law.

John 4:22-24
You Samaritans worship what you do not know;
we worship what we do know, for salvation is from
the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come
when the true worshipers will worship the Father in
the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers
the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must
worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

See that???

The time was coming (for believers) and had come (Christ's example) that men will put aside the Law and become inwardly made to be the Truth made alive by the power of God's grace!

I do not expect you to get it. For I believe you have become too dull. For anyone who thinks its good to follow the Law is. I said what I did for the sake of those here who do desire to worship the Lord God in His Grace and Truth. To live as He did in relationship with The Father, not by Law. But, in Grace and Truth.

I do wish you well. That is why I told you the truth.

Elder 111 · Jan 3, 2014

VictorC said:
Let's make this simple. Your last episode showed that you discarded the sabbath, concurrent with your unsupported claims that Gentiles and God's adopted children are asked and/or commanded to keep the sabbath.

The bottom line is that you're a miserable failure. You contradicted the Law and speak from utter darkness.

That is ridiculous. For the Ten Commandments Law ask us to keep the Sabbath, so how can I contradict the law when I support the very thing the law speaks of?

VictorC · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
That is ridiculous. For the Ten Commandments Law ask us to keep the Sabbath, so how can I contradict the law when I support the very thing the law speaks of?

It has been cited at least a dozen times! Why didn't you bother to look it up?
Exodus 31
12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.

We have seen over 2000 posts in three threads pass by, where you have spoken against the Law each time you claim we're to keep the sabbath. It was never given to the Gentiles, nor to God's adopted children. The same is true of the old covenant Moses named the Ten Commandments.

Elder 111 · Jan 3, 2014

Originally Posted by Elder 111

You are desperately trying to prove me wrong and failing miserably to do so.

The text from Exodus 12 has nothing to do with what we are discussing.
You purposely, for I fail to see you not realizing it, that in the context of Romans 2 the law spoken of is the Ten Commandments. (that have been demonstrated already) 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Now tell everyone which Commandments these are taken from? Does Exodus 12 speak of the same?
Verse 27 now speak of fulfilling, that is doing. Doing what? The law! What law? The Ten Commandments! Who want to be foolish can believe you, not the wise in Christ.

from scratch said:
You take the quoting of a commandment in any way as requiring to keep it. You should ask what is Paul really doing here. Is he requiring the keeping of the law? No!

Does Ex 12 apply to the Ten Commandments? Yes because circumcision is a requirement to participate in the rituals of the covenant. Circumcision is part of the law.

Words fail me in describing this,:o

You don't even care what the text says. Its talks about the Ten Commandments! It says there kept it.
Paul is not requiring anyone to keep the law, he says there are keeping it.
What does eating have to do with the Ten Commandments? Did it say thou shall not eat in there too? The Ten Commandments says that we should be circumcised too? You are going too far with this, you are no where near the Gospel of Christ with this nonsense.

Elder 111 · Jan 3, 2014

VictorC said:
It has been cited at least a dozen times! Why didn't you bother to look it up?
Exodus 31
12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.

We have seen over 2000 posts in three threads pass by, where you have spoken against the Law each time you claim we're to keep the sabbath. It was never given to the Gentiles, nor to God's adopted children. The same is true of the old covenant Moses named the Ten Commandments.

The reason they were to keep the Sabbath was because it was God's holy Sabbath and they were God's holy people. Are you a holy child of God?

VictorC · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
The reason they were to keep the Sabbath was because it was God's holy Sabbath and they were God's holy people. Are you a holy child of God?

Yes, I am. And no, they aren't - that's why God called them the children of Israel. Contrast that to John 1:12-13, Galatians 4:4-7, etc. Only the children of Israel received the covenant from Mount Sinai and the sabbath contained therein. God's adopted children were never asked nor commanded to observe the sabbath - in contrast, we have entered into God's rest the sabbath never provided.
The Law's testimony is very clear, and once again you violated the Law in your latest post.
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

VictorC · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Words fail me in describing this,:o

You don't even care what the text says. Its talks about the Ten Commandments! It says there kept it.

Paul is not requiring anyone to keep the law, he says there are keeping it.

What does eating have to do with the Ten Commandments? Did it say thou shall not eat in there too? The Ten Commandments says that we should be circumcised too? You are going too far with this, you are no where near the Gospel of Christ with this nonsense.

Anyone who has read the narrative presented in the first few chapters of the epistle to the Romans knows that it starts out showing the problem, where everyone is rendered "guilty before God". It isn't until v3:21 that Paul outlines the solution to the problem he presents. We've already seen that the Gentiles don't have the Law, aren't circumsized, and don't keep the sabbath each year as the children of Israel were required to. You haven't sat down and read the narrative the way the inspired author penned it, and this is the reason you are so ignorant of this epistle's message.

from scratch · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Words fail me in describing this,:o

You don't even care what the text says. Its talks about the Ten Commandments! It says there kept it.

Paul is not requiring anyone to keep the law, he says there are keeping it.

What does eating have to do with the Ten Commandments? Did it say thou shall not eat in there too? The Ten Commandments says that we should be circumcised too? You are going too far with this, you are no where near the Gospel of Christ with this nonsense.

You must be talking about some other text than what I quoted.

No Paul isn't saying the Gentiles keep the law.

You sever the law into little groups having no connection. The law is a single unit and each part effects another.

GenemZ · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
That is ridiculous. For the Ten Commandments Law ask us to keep the Sabbath, so how can I contradict the law when I support the very thing the law speaks of?

ARE YOU A JEW? NO! The Law was for the theocratic nation of Israel!

Hebrews 7:5
Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who
become priests to collect a tenth from the people
—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though
they also are descended from Abraham.

You can't do that one.... So, you broke the Law if its the Law you wish to keep! One does not keep only a part of the Law, if its by the Law they seek to please God. You must keep all of the Law to do so!

Your alleged way of Law following is hypocrisy. Its just doing something that was snatched out from the Law, to make yourself feel like you are doing something special. Something special that others having spiritual common sense would not do.

James 2:10

For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails
in one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

You can not just keep a few parts of the Law and think that it pleases God, if its by means of keeping the Law that you seek to please Him. Its Hypocrisy.

GenemZ · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
You purposely, for I fail to see you not realizing it, that in the context of Romans 2 the law spoken of is the Ten Commandments. (that have been demonstrated already) 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Now tell everyone which Commandments these are taken from? Does Exodus 12 speak of the same?

The Ten Commandments only mention not to commit adultery. Its in the rest of the Law that says you will be executed if you do!

It also says in the Law that if you see someone who does not keep the Sabbath that you should have him executed. Do you keep the Law?

Exodus 31:13-14

Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

How many Sabbath breakers have you executed lately? Starting a cult of murder if you wish to uphold the law concerning the Sabbath?

from scratch · Jan 3, 2014

Elder 111 said:
The reason they were to keep the Sabbath was because it was God's holy Sabbath and they were God's holy people. Are you a holy child of God?

But we're not under their covenant issued at Sinai.

Elder 111 · Jan 3, 2014

VictorC said:
Yes, I am. And no, they aren't - that's why God called them the children of Israel. Contrast that to John 1:12-13, Galatians 4:4-7, etc. Only the children of Israel received the covenant from Mount Sinai and the sabbath contained therein. God's adopted children were never asked nor commanded to observe the sabbath - in contrast, we have entered into God's rest the sabbath never provided.
The Law's testimony is very clear, and once again you violated the Law in your latest post.
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Is the Sabbath the only thing of the Ten Commandments that we can ignore?
Why was the Sabbath given?
Was not the Sabbath of God and given by God?
Abraham's seeds, the Jews, were not sons of God too?
In the light of Gal. 4:4-7, is it that you are saving the we are redeem from the Ten Commandments?
Which would imply that we are not only not obligated to keep the sabbath but that we are not obligated to keep any of the other nine: including not serving God only. That or you have misrepresented/understood scripture.
It is that simple.

What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

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