What happens to non-Christians when they die?

I would say, yes. If you put it "I believe they're saved", it's a different story. But if you say "They're definitely saved", you've gone too far. You just don't know. You can, of course, judge your own soul and know that you yourself are saved, but that's a different thread.

There are some cases when you can definitely know that people are unsaved. I know some professed atheists and anarchists who blatantly deny God's existance. Is it judging if i said they were unsaved? Also, some friends of mine have never accepted Jesus Christ and don't believe they have to...they think they inherited being a Christian from their parents. Some cases are more shady...i have some friends who might actually be saved, but have walked away from God and are hurting because of it. I'm very discriminating, and I try not to judge. Especially since I myself was unsaved a little over a year ago. The fact is, Jesus is the only way. God is the only one who knows for sure, but we can guess. When a guy has reached the generalization that he is God and God from my perspective does not exist, then I think we can guess pretty darn clearly.

I think when non-Christians die, they get the shaft by God, because hes not fair. That is, if there even is a God.

Originally posted by Andrew_B
I think when non-Christians die, they get the shaft by God, because hes not fair. That is, if there even is a God.

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Could you re-phrase this comment and make it less graphic?

I understand you have an opinion - but have a little taste - your bordering on blasphemy here.

There are some cases when you can definitely know that people are unsaved. I know some professed atheists and anarchists who blatantly deny God's existance. Is it judging if i said they were unsaved?

Well, since you really don't know how that person's life is going to pan out--I would say yeah.. it is judging. God's concept of time isn't the same as ours. Who's to say that person won't go to Heaven when they die.

Also, some friends of mine have never accepted Jesus Christ and don't believe they have to...they think they inherited being a Christian from their parents. Some cases are more shady...i have some friends who might actually be saved, but have walked away from God and are hurting because of it. I'm very discriminating, and I try not to judge. Especially since I myself was unsaved a little over a year ago.

Yeah, I try not to judge, too. I figure .. I was lost once so there is hope for everyone.

The fact is, Jesus is the only way. God is the only one who knows for sure, but we can guess. When a guy has reached the generalization that he is God and God from my perspective does not exist, then I think we can guess pretty darn clearly.

I see where you are coming from but what is wrong with 'born again' or 'believer' or just 'Christain'?

It is God who ultimately does the saving so why do we have to make the determination by our references?

Michelle






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Sorry, I just have strong feelings on the topic of religion as a whole.

Andrew_B,

Would that be your perception of fair, or God's?

Of course, if He's not fair, you truly have no idea what happens to non-Christians. Since he's not fair, he could do anything he wanted with them, arbitrarily saving some and not others.

We like people who have strong feelings about religion! We be them! That's why we're here!

Anyway, welcome to the fray.

Miss Shelby: I'm not saying they'll never be saved and they're going to Hell, there's hope for everyone. "Not Saved" means not saved for the moment, there's always a chanced of getting saved, especially if kind-hearted Christians are at work. A person won't got to Heaven when they die if they die without Jesus. Not saved is saying that, if they died this very moment, then they wouldn't go to Heaven. Not without hope. No one is without hope...there are serial killer who have accepted Christ and turned their lives around. It's amazing. I was seemingly without hope, I'm sure. I was weak and did what the crowd did. But the first time I go against the crowd, it happens to be the most important and best decision of my life. Now I do my best not to follow the crowd. No one's without hope.

Andrew B: Have you had a problem with Christians in the past or something? Anyway, I love you and I will pray for you (a compliment )

The scriptures teach that God will hold us accountable for what we did with the truth we knew. It also tells us that we're all given an awareness of Him; that His handiwork is all around us. A person who has never heard the Good News of Christ will be judged according to the relationship they have with the Father.

The scriptures also say that no man comes to the Father except by the Son. There is a verse that says that the Good News was preached to the quick and the dead. Some scholars think that Christ preached to those who died before He came to earth as a man. These people were given the opportunity to choose to believe in Him or reject Him. I don't know that this is what happens to those who didn't get the message during their lifetime, but God will judge us all according to the truth we knew.

Where is this verse about the quick and the dead? I've never seen it...can't find it.

Originally posted by ljmandtina
The scriptures teach that God will hold us accountable for what we did with the truth we knew. It also tells us that we're all given an awareness of Him; that His handiwork is all around us. A person who has never heard the Good News of Christ will be judged according to the relationship they have with the Father.

The scriptures also say that no man comes to the Father except by the Son. There is a verse that says that the Good News was preached to the quick and the dead. Some scholars think that Christ preached to those who died before He came to earth as a man. These people were given the opportunity to choose to believe in Him or reject Him. I don't know that this is what happens to those who didn't get the message during their lifetime, but God will judge us all according to the truth we knew.

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Ahem... wow this is huge.. Mind filling me up, from where do you get this info from? Which verse and book?

The non-Christian will get a fair judgement from God.. THat is no doubt bout that.. Reveleation told us that the sea will gave up the dead and so on... and they will stand in the judgemnt of God...

So for Andrew... don't worry, we all will get a fair judgement... you see. Only the problem is that who will be our lawyer? and I know for sure the prosecutor will be the devil.
My lawyer will be Jesus that I know for sure.

jp

Neo said:

What do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die? If a Buddhist monk lives an exemplary life, devoting all of his time to helping others, will God send him to Hell for an eternity just because he didn't believe in Christ while he was alive?

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Getting to Heaven is not based on merit. It is on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the ONLY way to get to Heaven.
Our good works are filthy rages in God's sight.

Apologist said:

You also have to remember that there are degrees of punishment in hell and degrees of rewards in heaven. Someone who tried to live a good life will not suffer the punishment that Adolf Hitler will suffer. We have to remember that God is infinitely just and will judge with absolute righteousness and holiness.

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What Chapter and verse do you get this from?

Don't give me your opinion. Give me FACTS

"If a Buddhist monk lives an exemplary life, devoting all of his time to helping others, will God send him to Hell for an eternity just because he didn't believe in Christ while he was alive? "

"Well, IF I believed in a god and heaven and all that, I would say that buddhist monk would be right near the front of the line to pass through the pearly gates!"


How does a thread like this, filled with non-christian posts get transferred to this forum?

First, the answer is yes, the person will not see the Kingdom of God, will not enter the Kingdom of God, because he was not born again from above. Second, he sinned and he was conceived in an unholy state in Adam, so being unholy all his righteousness is filthy rags.

The idea here, posed by the person who does not believe in God, is that God would not treat a person who did his best and never had an opportunity to trust in Christ unfairly. Therefore God and Hell do not exist. A silly argument to say the least, built not on scripture but the inventions of men.

The bible tells us two things about Hell and some wise guy put it this way, "You cannot work your way to heaven, but you can dig yourself a deeper pit in Hell. Nothing we do in the way of good deeds puts us in line to the pearly gates. All our deeds are corrupt.
But our deeds can affect our punishement in the afterlife. We are storing up wrath for ourselves by our deeds, the more we sin, the more we will be punished. Some sins get more punishment than others, such as leading someone astray.

In summary, the unsaved receive perfect justice in the afterlife, no more and no less, but they are eternally punished in eternal darkness in that they never enter the Kingdom of God. The point of conjecture is whether while in this state of eternal darkness and after they have received retribution for their misdeeds, they remain aware, or whether their soul is then destroyed. Scripture say God can destroy our bodies and souls in Hell, but just because God has the capacity to do something does not demonstrate He has chosen to do it. So while this is my view, punishement then destruction, all scripture actually says that the lost will receive punishment for their deeds and they will be eternally punished, which could mean eternal separation rather than eternal torment. The verse that says the smoke will rise for ever and ever might only be refering to the eternal consequences of punishment, rather than on-going torment.

How does a thread like this, filled with non-christian posts get transferred to this forum?

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I agree entirely. This is a Christian area only, isnt it?

By the way, Isiah 45:7 does not say God is the author of evil as the OP says. From CARM's site:

Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

(Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"

Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first look at how the word for evil "rah" is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject.
First of all, the Hebrew word for evil "rah" is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible, it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked", "bad", "hurt", "harm", "ill", "sorrow", "mischief", "displeased", "adversity", "affliction", "trouble", "calamity", "grievous", "misery", and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV;
Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." (Isaiah 45:5-7).

Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,

"And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11).
"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6).
From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.

What about the Noahide Law? It is derived from Genesis where all of humanity could be saved if they followed the 7 laws:
1. No Idolatry
2. No Incest/Adultery
3. No Murder
4. No Blasphemy
5. No Theft
6. No Eating Flesh of Still Living Animal
7. Establish Just Courts in the Land


This was the law mankind had to follow (except the Jews who were given the Mosaic Law later). Now, Christ died and freed us from the law (all previous law) and we are saved through Him.

The Jews don't actively convert because they believe that all non-Jews have a place in the hereafter if they follow the universal Noahide Law. Is it then likely that those who have never heard of Christ are still judged based on the ancient Noahide law that applied to all mankind by God? This idea (never heard it before, but it might not be an original idea) makes sense to me in that God is still forgiving and just.


Notice I said "those who have never heard of Christ" which means to willingly reject Him and being ignorant of Him are two completely different things.

Peace.

Canadian75, Paul indicates in Romans 2:11-16 that those who have not had the opportunity to learn of the God of the Bible will be judged based on the Law written on their heart, whether they treated others with integrety, doing unto others as they would do unto themselves. The key here is we are not talking about salvation, of earning a place because we did not have an opportunity to believe. Only that God is just and will punish the lost according to what they knew. John 3:16-18 makes clear that if you did not have an opportunity to believe, you are condemned, not given an alternate route to heaven.

Van said:

Canadian75, Paul indicates in Romans 2:11-16 that those who have not had the opportunity to learn of the God of the Bible will be judged based on the Law written on their heart, whether they treated others with integrety, doing unto others as they would do unto themselves. The key here is we are not talking about salvation, of earning a place because we did not have an opportunity to believe. Only that God is just and will punish the lost according to what they knew. John 3:16-18 makes clear that if you did not have an opportunity to believe, you are condemned, not given an alternate route to heaven.

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I agree , there is only salvation in Christ , outside of Him there is yet to be accounted for sin.