What happens if we live a Carnal Christian Life ?

[Behold]

You're kind of missing my point. Repentance simply means we have changed our way about the sin we used to indulge in. \ But being a Christian does not give us a license to sin.

Readers,

What sin has Jesus not already forgiven?

Redemption is not discontinued the day after a person is born again.

Some Christians have been taught a very peculiar non-scriptural idea that would be this...

Yes, you are now born again today, so all your sin is gone....
But tomorrow, when you wake up, at 12:01a, all your sin is back, and you then have to remember to keep repenting and confessing to KEEP YOURSELF SAVED., or "keep being forgiven". = You are now trying to keep yourself saved, and you have no faith in Christ.
See, it can't be both... You can't be on one hand talking about how much you Trust in Jesus, yet, you don't as proven by the fact that you BELIEVE that if you don't repent and confess sin, (SELF EFFORT) then the Cross is VOIDED and the Blood of Jesus, USELESS.

This is one of the worst theological bondages that the devil has ever created for many believers to believe.
Its the idea that the Cross only takes care of some of your sin, and you take care of the rest of it by repenting and confessing.
This is LEGALISM.
Its where the blood atonement has been SUBSTITUTED for "SELF SELF SELF SELF, EFFORT". to STAY SAVED.

This theology offends Jesus, denies the Cross, rejects "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross", and literally REJECTS the blood atonement.

Many believers are caught up in this heresy.

 

[JulieB67]

Its the idea that the Cross only takes care of some of your sin, and you take care of the rest of it by repenting and confessing.

Christ covered the sins of the whole world but,

Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Repentance is a huge part of salvation. It truly means a change of heart, a new way of thinking. Sometimes it takes years to get to true repentance, I know. We can't con God, he is a heart knower.

But thank goodness he is long suffereing,

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

I John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This theology offends Jesus, denies the Cross, rejects "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross", and literally REJECTS the blood atonement.

Christ finished the work on the cross, he only had to die once. No one needs to get "saved again and again" but upon repentance he will cleanse us from all unrigheousness.

The salvation is always there Christ didn't fail but Christians can walk away of their own
accord.

So it really is your belief that someone can supposedly get saved and then live their lives the way they want without repenting?

 

[pescador]

Christ covered the sins of the whole world but,

Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Repentance is a huge part of salvation. It truly means a change of heart, a new way of thinking. Sometimes it takes years to get to true repentance, I know. We can't con God, he is a heart knower.

But thank goodness he is long suffereing,

II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

I John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



Christ finished the work on the cross, he only had to die once. No one needs to get "saved again and again" but upon repentance he will cleanse us from all unrigheousness.

The salvation is always there Christ didn't fail but Christians can walk away of their own
accord.

So it really is your belief that someone can supposedly get saved and then live their lives the way they want without repenting?

I am not going to comment on your response except to say that I don't agree with you. And I disagree with how you interpreted Behold's post.

What I am going to comment on is your (and some others') interpretation of 1 John 1:8-9. John was writing that portion of his letter to non-believers. His writing style is a good example of being gentle to non-believers instead of accusing them directly.

Pulling isolated verses from Paul's, Peter's, and John's letters to prove a point is ridiculous. What do you think of this part of your post? "Christ covered the sins of the whole world but..." That's some "but"! Either Christ covered everyone's sins or He didn't.

And "long suffereing"; what is "suffereing"? Is that the same thing in you mind as "suffering"?

See how easy it is to jump on another believer's errors?

John's attitude is good practice that many people should follow, including yourself, toward believers and non-believers.

 

[JulieB67]

What I am going to comment on is your (and some others') interpretation of 1 John 1:8-9. John was writing that portion of his letter to non-believers. His writing style is a good example of being gentle to non-believers instead of accusing them directly.

If you want context, go up a few verses,

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

This would be after a person is saved. And it's the same subject that this thread is. We can't serve the flesh and God. Are you suggesting we can? That's what I'm disagreeing with.

I John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

And "long suffereing"; what is "suffereing"? Is that the same thing in you mind as "suffering"?

Sorry that at my age my fingers are faster than my brain

"Christ covered the sins of the whole world but..

Exactly as I wrote it. Christ only had to die once and the salvation is there for all if anyone chooses it. But to think we don't need repentance if someone falls away is not biblical.

You keep accusing me of cherry picking but I keep telling you the entire bible should be read chapter by chapter and verse by verse as not to lose context. But we certainly can't post the entire bible to prove a point. So we post verses and if one goes back and reads those chapters you will get the context.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

FeaturedWhat happens if we live a Carnal Christian Life ?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

If that's one's full time condition?
With no true Repentance
probably won't be pretty later.
M

 

[ViaCrucis]

yes i read te Bible verse. i just wondered whether there was a point of no return some christians say there is, some say there is not.

There's no such thing as a point of no return. When one lamb leaves the sheepfold the Good Shepherd searches high and low to find and rescue the one lost lamb.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

There's no such thing as a point of no return. When one lamb leaves the sheepfold the Good Shepherd searches high and low to find and rescue the one lost lamb.

-CryptoLutheran

Matt 7
13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
...
18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

 

[ViaCrucis]

if i were to repent right now and not sin ever again would God take me back

There's no need for God to "take you back" as you haven't left Him, and He hasn't left you.

There is no never sinning again, as long as you are in this world sin is going to be part of your fallen human nature, you are a sinner.

It's not about you being righteous for God, it is about God being righteous for you. God is righteous for you through the death and resurrection of His Son, and in Him you are the very righteousness of God.

What you need isn't to think in terms of how God can take you back, but instead to remove yourself from that environment of toxic religion which is feeding you false theology and false doctrine. To be part of a living, confessing, believing community that preaches the Gospel, and rightly divides Law and Gospel.

"The law says, 'do this', and it is never done. Grace says, 'believe in this', and everything is already done.

The first part is clear from what has been stated by the Apostle and his interpreter, St. Augustine, in many places. And it has been stated often enough above that the 'law' 'works wrath' and keeps all men under the curse. The second part is clear from the same sources, for faith justifies. And the law (says St. Augustine) commands what faith obtains. For through faith Christ is in us, indeed, one with us. Christ is just and has fulfilled all the commands of God, wherefore we also fulfill everything through him since he was made ours through faith." - Martin Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, Thesis 26

The Law commands what we cannot do; Christ has done what we could not do, and by grace alone through faith gives us His righteousness. Thus what the Law was powerless to do on account of sin, God has done by sending His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, that He might be just and justifier of the unjust. There is, therefore, a righteousness apart from the Law, the righteousness that is by faith; this is the alien, foreign, imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. And it is ours freely, as pure gift, apart from any of our own efforts.

You can, therefore, in faith stand boldly before God as the justified saint of God, righteous on Christ's account. Coram Deo--before God--you are pure, holy, and righteous. Because Jesus Christ is pure, holy, and righteous, and He is yours and you are His.

Repent, yes, but live daily in repentance. Not because God is a tyrant; but because it is through repentance that we starve the Old Adam and deprive him of his power; and it is with faith that we feed the New Man, created in Christ Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

You can, therefore, in faith stand boldly before God

Indeed - we stand only by our faith.

Romans 11
you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[ViaCrucis]

.

 

[pescador]

If you want context, go up a few verses,

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

This would be after a person is saved. And it's the same subject that this thread is. We can't serve the flesh and God. Are you suggesting we can? That's what I'm disagreeing with.

I John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.




Sorry that at my age my fingers are faster than my brain



Exactly as I wrote it. Christ only had to die once and the salvation is there for all if anyone chooses it. But to think we don't need repentance if someone falls away is not biblical.

You keep accusing me of cherry picking but I keep telling you the entire bible should be read chapter by chapter and verse by verse as not to lose context. But we certainly can't post the entire bible to prove a point. So we post verses and if one goes back and reads those chapters you will get the context.

Try going back a few verses...

1 John 1:3, "We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

That is the context of the beginning of 1 John.

... we post verses and if one goes back and reads those chapters you will get the context. (Your words, not mine).

 

[Behold]

but upon repentance he will cleanse us from all unrigheousness.

Here is what i think you are trying to explain.

Christ saved me with His blood, and then i keep myself saved by my lifestyle.
= Thats unfortunate.

As, your lifestyle is the reason that Christ had to save you to begin with...
Our lifestyle is "filthy" always, even after we are saved, when we compare it to JESUS.

The most clean living person you can ever be, is still DIRTY when you compare yourself to JESUS.

So, you can't repent yourself clean, as you are not clean of yourself.

Its only the Blood of Jesus that gives us the Righteousness that we can't of ourselves provide.
This means, that all confessing and repenting does for you, is that it gets rid of your guilt trip.
You'll feel better, if you tell God you are sorry, and you once again try to stop sinning..but you dont.
And THAT lifestyle is exactly why you keep sinning.
You are creating yourself to continue to be a sinner, and that is why you keep confessing and repenting.

Most Readers...
Its the wrong lifestyle of repenting, confessing, struggling, striving, falling again......all your life....
That is what is wrong with your Christianity, and why its a fail.
See, you can't stop sinning by trying to stop, as this "mind" is "walking in the flesh" which allows the dominion of the Law to empower your flesh to want to sin more.
Most believers are stuck in this "Christian Fail" repent and confess cycle their entire life.
Their entire life is.....>"sinning, confessing, repenting"....and that is all they can do, as they have no power to live a perfected discipleship.
And this is why they are always on a Fourm arguing about the fact that they are always repenting and sinning, and confessing..... as if that is what Real Christianity is supposed to be... And unfortunately it is to them because they have been badly trained.
Listen,
A person whose Christianity is nothing but confessing sin, repenting, starting over, doing it again, repenting again, confessing again, for YEARS......Is a Christian Failure.
This person is no different then an unbeliever, except the unbeliever does not feel GUILTY about their sinning.

Paul said...>"if you walk in the light you will not sin"...."you will not commit deeds of the Flesh".

So, until you are taught how to do that, you will keep confessing and failing.

 

[JulieB67]

1 John 1:3, "We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

Yes, John has taught these people the gospel. But John's teaching here is specifically to believers after they have been saved-

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

Unbelievers don't have the truth in them.

The first two verses I posted,

I John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Again, the unbelievers don't have the truth in them yet. So these specific verses would be after someone has accepted Christ.

I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."


I John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Once again, this is to believers, unbelievers don't have the word in them yet.

He continues even in the 2nd chapter,

The subject is still about sin and the believer

I John 2:1 "My little children, these thing write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: "

What about these verses don't line up with the subject of this thread? That is why I posted them. To think carnally would be putting the flesh first and after we are saved we should constantly be trying to put the spirit first. That's the only way we'll have true fellowship.

Christ saved me with His blood, and then i keep myself saved by my lifestyle.
= Thats unfortunate.

That's so far from the truth about where I'm at in my life. I'm at more peace now with my Christianity and walk than I have ever been in my life. I couldn't say that in my 20s and 30's. I pretty much did my own thing never putting God first.

The most clean living person you can ever be, is still DIRTY when you compare yourself to JESU

Yes, as Isaiah said, our righteousness is as filthy rags. I don't disagree with that.

So, you can't repent yourself clean, as you are not clean of yourself.

Repenting is truly changing your way of thinking. It means you for the most part (we all fall short) will put the spirit over the flesh and you want to put the spirit first. We will always sin and certain believers need to pray about habitual sin. But that's the beauty of Christianity, is the forgiveness that comes with true repentance. I don't have to keep repenting all day long. I've already had a change of heart about most of the sin that Paul taught "can so easily besets us." I don't want to do the things I used to. Some of us can come to that point at different points in our life.

A person whose Christianity is nothing but confessing sin, repenting, starting over, doing it again, repenting again, confessing again, for YEARS......Is a Christian Failure.
This person is no different then an unbeliever, except the unbeliever does not feel GUILTY about their sinning.

Again, that is so far from my lifestyle. I have true peace.

 

[pescador]

Yes, John has taught these people the gospel. But John's teaching here is specifically to believers after they have been saved-

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

Unbelievers don't have the truth in them.

The first two verses I posted,

I John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Again, the unbelievers don't have the truth in them yet. So these specific verses would be after someone has accepted Christ.

I John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."


I John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Once again, this is to believers, unbelievers don't have the word in them yet.

He continues even in the 2nd chapter,

The subject is still about sin and the believer

I John 2:1 "My little children, these thing write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: "

What about these verses don't line up with the subject of this thread? That is why I posted them. To think carnally would be putting the flesh first and after we are saved we should constantly be trying to put the spirit first. That's the only way we'll have true fellowship.







That's so far from the truth about where I'm at in my life. I'm at more peace now with my Christianity and walk than I have ever been in my life. I couldn't say that in my 20s and 30's. I pretty much did my own thing never putting God first.



Yes, as Isaiah said, our righteousness is as filthy rags. I don't disagree with that.



Repenting is truly changing your way of thinking. It means you for the most part (we all fall short) will put the spirit over the flesh and you want to put the spirit first. We will always sin and certain believers need to pray about habitual sin. But that's the beauty of Christianity, is the forgiveness that comes with true repentance. I don't have to keep repenting all day long. I've already had a change of heart about most of the sin that Paul taught "can so easily besets us." I don't want to do the things I used to. Some of us can come to that point at different points in our life.



Again, that is so far from my lifestyle. I have true peace.

Regarding the first part of your post...

You are so wrong about 1 John! Your exegesis makes absolutely no sense.

I don't care about the rest of it.

 

[JulieB67]

Your exegesis makes absolutely no sense

I could say the same for you. There is no way I come away from 1st John 1:6 with the notion that unbelievers say they have "fellowship with Him" How is that even possible? Unbelievers do not have fellowship with Christ. But that is what you are implying.

What is your interpretation of this verse?

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

Edited to add these verses you are talking about,

I John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ."

I John 1:4 "And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full."

I John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all."

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

John is telling them that God is light and in him is no darkness and if we say we have fellowship in him and and walk in darkness the truth is not in us.


Again, if you see it differently what does verse 6 mean to you?

 

[Behold]

Yes, John has taught these people the gospel. But John's teaching here is specifically to believers after they have been saved-

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

Unbelievers don't have the truth in them.

Walking in darkness, having dead faith, being backslid......

These are all types of Christian Disciples, ..... nothing more.

Otherwise, never become confused about an apostle "Having sin".
They didnt have any, but often their audience did.

"if we say we have no sin"...Is not the apostle confessing sin.
Its the apostle preaching to lost people, and using the work "WE", corporally.
This is what preacher's do..
We preach to a group, inclusively, yet, we are not speaking of ourselves, when we say "we".

 

[JulieB67]

Otherwise, never become confused about an apostle "Having sin".
They didnt have any,

Only Christ was without sin.

And even after being saved, we will still sin. John teaches that and yes, included himself.

 

[Behold]

Only Christ was without sin.

And even after being saved, we will still sin. John teaches that and yes, included himself.

God gives the born again His Righteousness.
If you don't have this, you are not going to heaven.
You can't go to heaven, if you "have sin".
What do you think Jesus is doing on the Cross?
He is taking your sin, and giving you His sinlessness., "the righteousness of God in Christ".

You dont understand that "where there is no law, there is no transgression".
If you can realize this, then you will understand that the born again.. "are not UNDER the Law, but UNDER GRACE".

"Jesus has redeemed you from the curse of the law".

 

[ViaCrucis]

Walking in darkness, having dead faith, being backslid......

These are all types of Christian Disciples, ..... nothing more.

Otherwise, never become confused about an apostle "Having sin".
They didnt have any, but often their audience did.

"if we say we have no sin"...Is not the apostle confessing sin.
Its the apostle preaching to lost people, and using the work "WE", corporally.
This is what preacher's do..
We preach to a group, inclusively, yet, we are not speaking of ourselves, when we say "we".

Of course the apostles had sin. St. Paul calls himself the "chief of sinners".

Are you trying to say you're not a sinner? Because you are. And so am I. And so is everyone.

There's only one who was without sin, His name is Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

God gives the born again His Righteousness.
If you don't have this, you are not going to heaven.
You can't go to heaven, if you "have sin".
What do you think Jesus is doing on the Cross?
He is taking your sin, and giving you His sinlessness., "the righteousness of God in Christ".

You dont understand that "where there is no law, there is no transgression".
If you can realize this, then you will understand that the born again.. "are not UNDER the Law, but UNDER GRACE".

"Jesus has redeemed you from the curse of the law".

Christ is our righteousness, that is what makes us righteous before God.
In our flesh we are still sinners, condemned by the Law.

Simul iustus et peccator.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Behold]

Of course the apostles had sin. St. Paul calls himself the "chief of sinners".

-CryptoLutheran

You have an issue with studying the bible.

So, let me help you.
When Paul said he is "chief of sinners"... you forgot to read the rest of the chapter.
And that is because you are not reading a bible at all, you are using some rotten commentary that has ruined your understanding of these verses.
If you pick up a bible, and read the REST of what Paul said, you'll discover that at the end of the chapter he says that Christ always gives him Victory over sin.
You missed that part, because your deceptive commentary left that out.

So, what Paul is doing...is giving his TESTIMONY.
This is where someone stands up in church and says.." I use to be terrible (chief of sinners), but NOW Jesus has made me.....)"
So, that is what Paul is doing.
He starts by saying he was the worst sort of sinner....He is not saying "im STILL a sinner", he's saying i am CHIEF...... in other words.......I use to be a person who was helping murder CHRISTIANS... I WAS THAT GUY.= the worst type of sinner...."Chief"...... = But God, that He might show all of you His Mercy, took ME, a CHIEF of sinners, the worst type, and He caused me (thru God's GRACE) to be the person who wrote most of the New Testament, all of the Church Doctrine, and i did more for Christ, then all the other Apostles COMBINED>

God took the worst sort of sinner, (Chief of sinners) a person who was helping to murder Christians, a CHIEF of SINNERS, and look what He did with ME..= as an example of the amazing mercy and Grace of God.

So, THAT Viacrucis, is the context of "chief of sinners", and you have no idea about this because you are not studying a bible.