What happened to the jew's Messiah?

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Talmud and the Koran have nothing in common. As I've written to you elsewhere: the only way you could make this remotely understandable is if you said the following:

"The Talmud is to the Tanakh what the Hadith are to the Koran." Unfortunately, you ignored that part.

As for Jesus' and Paul's prophetical abilities, it's a fine belief to have; but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

If not for the fulfillment of their prophecies, I myself would probably have turned atheist.

But rejoice!!!! Jesus did promise to restore the kingdom to Israel But I think Judah was left out of the picture as in Jeremiah 31:33.

Acts 1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom [#932] to Israel?"

 

[AutumnJ]

i would like to know more please. I don't know much on the subject and am no one to debate, which one came first?

 

[corvus_corax]

I am not the one missing a Temple and Sanctuary and having a Gold Dome in the middle of my city either.

Matt 23: 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

Im to that point...
The point where I am now seeing LLoJ's bigotted comments for what they are.
LLoJ has already stated that the Gentile followers of the Tanakh (such as Chokmah and I) are "as bad as atheists" when it comes to discussing scripture.

Yes, LLoJ, you said that.
You said that Noachides (such as chokmah and I) and Christians-turned-Jews are NO BETTER than atheists.
Have fun pretending that we dont follow the God of Israel.

You, of course, completely IGNORE the 1000+ years the Jewish culture has on christians when it comes to understanding the Tanakh.
You, in your arrogance, seem to think that you (in your short little experience in a non-christian culture) have a greater insight into the Tanakh than the Jews do (who have a nearly 3000+ year advantage on you regarding language, culture and the scriptures themselves)

You present yourself as a strawman-arguing neophyte, but your posts reveal your bigotry and prejudice.

At least Jesus had some cultural exposure to the scriptures he spoke of. You pretend to have such, but have none in fact.

 

[peepnklown]

If Daniel and Revelation are not the fulfillment of the OT/OC prophecies, then Jesus, Daniel and Paul were indeed false prophets.

I agree with my brother, you are out of your league.
A - Which prophecies from the Hebrew bible are you talking about? Your vague ideal of ‘prophecies’ is meaningless until you give us the specifics.
B – I agree that Jesus and Paul were false prophets (according to the Greek scriptures) but, you make a huge mistake (lack of knowledge mostly), Daniel was never considered a prophet. Prophets speak to their generation!

so he will be about as bad as an atheist discussing scriptures.

You haven’t provided any commentary on your ‘proof text.’ You haven’t supported any of your claims. Yet, you fallaciously attack atheists and the followers of Noah? Please…

No disrespect intended.

I disagree, you have disrespected me. Post#42 shows your slander against me. You haven’t added a single thing to this discussion, so how about you stay silent until you can provide something.

The only laughable thing is Lamb’s refusal to support his claims.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If Daniel and Revelation are not the fulfillment of the OT/OC prophecies, then Jesus, Daniel and Paul were indeed false prophets.

I agree with my brother, you are out of your league.
A - Which prophecies from the Hebrew bible are you talking about? Your vague ideal of ‘prophecies’ is meaningless until you give us the specifics.
B – I agree that Jesus and Paul were false prophets (according to the Greek scriptures) but, you make a huge mistake (lack of knowledge mostly), Daniel was never considered a prophet. Prophets speak to their generation!

Ezekiel 22 appears to be the 4th bowl being poured out on Jerusalem in the first century so the jews won't have to worry about this in the future I think. Peace.
Isn't the jews house a "Wilderness" to this day?

Matt 23:[SIZE=+2][/SIZE]32 "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' [guilt.] 33 "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of gehenna? 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

ezekiel 22:17 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me; they [are] all bronze, tin, iron, and lead, in the midst of a furnace; they have become dross from silver. 19 "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Because you have all become dross, therefore behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 '[As men] gather silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin into the midst of a furnace, to blow fire on it, to melt [it;] so I will gather [you] in My anger and in My fury, and I will leave [you there] and melt you. 21 'Yes, I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you shall be melted in its midst. 22 'As silver is melted in the midst of a furnace, so shall you be melted in its midst; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have poured out My fury on you.' "

Revelation 2:18 " And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, ' These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass:............

Reve 6:17 "For the Great Day of His Wrath has come, and who is able to stand?......revelation 16:8 Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Matt 23: 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Naos of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be Casting- Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

How do the jews feel about the muslims making muhammad the one to come like unto moses? Christians say it is Jesus. So I guess God must be the author of confusion after all

Acts 3:22 Moses, indeed, said--A prophet, unto you, shall the Lord God raise up among your brethren, like unto me: unto him, shall ye hearken respecting all things whatsoever he shall speak unto you.

(Young) Mark 9:7 And there came a cloud overshadowing them, and there came a Voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is My Son--the Beloved, hear ye him!!!!;'

(Young) Mark 12:29 and Jesus answered him--`The first of all the commands [is], Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one;

 

[Charles_Murphy]

I don't how true this is, but apparently the test for a false prophet according to the Jewish scripture is one who claims to be sent by God and is subsequently killed by crucifixion. Could a Jew confirm that?

Then if we are to accept that, then I guess the Jews would be justified in the rejection of Jesus if he really was crucified and on the day of judgement they will be able to succesfully argue their case.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't how true this is, but apparently the test for a false prophet according to the Jewish scripture is one who claims to be sent by God and is subsequently killed by crucifixion. Could a Jew confirm that?

Then if we are to accept that, then I guess the Jews would be justified in the rejection of Jesus if he really was crucified and on the day of judgement they will be able to succesfully argue their case.

Well, One was promised to them and in my view, Jesus the Christ accomplished EVERYTHING written about Him.[SIZE=+2] [/SIZE]

(Young) Luke 24:44 and he said to them, `These [are] the words that I spake unto you, being yet with you, that it behoveth to be fulfilled all the things that are written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms, about me.'

But like the muslims, they don't read the NT/NC.

Romans 11:6 and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, `There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob, 27 and this to them [is] the covenant from Me, when I may take away their sins.'

(Young) Isaiah 27:9 Therefore by this is the iniquity of Jacob covered, And this [is] all the fruit--To take away his sin, in His setting all the stones of an altar, As chalkstones beaten in pieces, They rise not--shrines and images.

Isaiah 59:20 And come to Zion hath a redeemer, Even to captives of transgression in Jacob, An affirmation of Jehovah. 21 And I--this [is] My covenant with them, said Jehovah, My Spirit that [is] on thee, And My words that I have put in thy mouth, Depart not from thy mouth, And from the mouth of thy seed, And from the mouth of thy seed's seed, said Jehovah, From henceforth unto the age!

Jerem 31:33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people. 34 And they do not teach any more Each his neighbour, and each his brother, Saying, Know ye Jehovah, For they all know Me, from their least unto their greatest, An affirmation of Jehovah; For I pardon their iniquity, And of their sin I make mention no more.

 

[Charles_Murphy]

Could you please demonstrate this. Because I have never seen this before to be honest. Obviously you will have to use the Torah and an objective interpretation of it.

And how do you explain (if it is true - still needs to be confirmed by a Jew) the fact that Jesus meets the criteria for a false prophet (i.e. death by crucifixion) according to their scriptures which he claimed to live by.

 

[chokmah]

How do the jews feel about the muslims making muhammad the one to come like unto moses? Christians say it is Jesus.

As a Noachide, I can say that there is no difference between Christians saying that Jesus was like Moses and Muslims saying Mohammed was like Moses. No difference whatsoever.

So I guess God must be the author of confusion after all

Fortunately, G-d is not swayed by your opinion nor your interpretation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How do the jews feel about the muslims making muhammad the one to come like unto moses? Christians say it is Jesus. So I guess God must be the author of confusion after all

As a Noachide, I can say that there is no difference between Christians saying that Jesus was like Moses and Muslims saying Mohammed was like Moses. No difference whatsoever.

Fortunately, G-d is not swayed by your opinion nor your interpretation.

God does not LIE either, though muhammad might "Fib" a little.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2925815-did-muhammad-bring-the-nc-promised-in-ot.html

Romans 11:6 and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, `There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob, 27 and this to them [is] the covenant from Me, when I may take away their sins.'

(Young) Isaiah 27:9 Therefore by this is the iniquity of Jacob covered, And this [is] all the fruit--To take away his sin, in His setting all the stones of an altar, As chalkstones beaten in pieces, They rise not--shrines and images.

Isaiah 59:20 And come to Zion hath a redeemer, Even to captives of transgression in Jacob, An affirmation of Jehovah. 21 And I--this [is] My covenant with them, said Jehovah, My Spirit that [is] on thee, And My words that I have put in thy mouth, Depart not from thy mouth, And from the mouth of thy seed, And from the mouth of thy seed's seed, said Jehovah, From henceforth unto the age!

Jerem 31:33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people. 34 And they do not teach any more Each his neighbour, and each his brother, Saying, Know ye Jehovah, For they all know Me, from their least unto their greatest, An affirmation of Jehovah; For I pardon their iniquity, And of their sin I make mention no more.

 

[chokmah]

God does not LIE either, though muhammad might "Fib" a little.

It's a shame you don't see the irony of your judgment. What you accuse Muslims of is the very thing you stand guilty of. You just happen to be standing behind a different fence.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How do the jews feel about the muslims making muhammad the one to come like unto moses? Christians say it is Jesus. So I guess God must be the author of confusion after all

As a Noachide, I can say that there is no difference between Christians saying that Jesus was like Moses and Muslims saying Mohammed was like Moses. No difference whatsoever.

Fortunately, G-d is not swayed by your opinion nor your interpretation.

It's a shame you don't see the irony of your judgment. What you accuse Muslims of is the very thing you stand guilty of. You just happen to be standing behind a different fence.

So you side with the muslims as muhammad being the one to come? What the heck are you talking about?

Romans 11:6 and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, `There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob, 27 and this to them [is] the covenant from Me, when I may take away their sins.'

(Young) Isaiah 27:9 Therefore by this is the iniquity of Jacob covered, And this [is] all the fruit--To take away his sin, in His setting all the stones of an altar, As chalkstones beaten in pieces, They rise not--shrines and images.

Isaiah 59:20 And come to Zion hath a redeemer, Even to captives of transgression in Jacob, An affirmation of Jehovah. 21 And I--this [is] My covenant with them, said Jehovah, My Spirit that [is] on thee, And My words that I have put in thy mouth, Depart not from thy mouth, And from the mouth of thy seed, And from the mouth of thy seed's seed, said Jehovah, From henceforth unto the age!

Jerem 31:33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people. 34 And they do not teach any more Each his neighbour, and each his brother, Saying, Know ye Jehovah, For they all know Me, from their least unto their greatest, An affirmation of Jehovah; For I pardon their iniquity, And of their sin I make mention no more.

 

[chokmah]

So you side with the muslims as muhammad being the one to come? What the heck are you talking about?

Is your first language English? That is not what I said nor I insinuated.

You claim that Jesus is the like Moses, and Muslims believe that Muhammed is like Moses. You accuse them of being wrong when you yourself are also. It's just you interpret Jesus as being correct.

That is the irony.
That is the different fence you stand behind.

Do you understand now?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is your first language English? That is not what I said nor I insinuated.

You claim that Jesus is the like Moses, and Muslims believe that Muhammed is like Moses. You accuse them of being wrong when you yourself are also. It's just you interpret Jesus as being correct.

That is the irony.
That is the different fence you stand behind.

Do you understand now?

Whatever you say bro. I am not the one without a temple anyway of which the muslims do agree this prophecy was fulfilled on the Jewish nation as I do. Thanks for your input.

Matt 23: 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Naos of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be Casting- Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Christians use this passage to show that God had just hardened part of Israel.

Romans 11:25 For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret--that ye may not be wise in your own conceits--that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fulness of the nations may come in; 26 and so all Israel shall be saved, according as it hath been written, `There shall come forth out of Sion he who is delivering, and he shall turn away impiety from Jacob,

Isaiah 4:3 And it hath been, he who is left in Zion, And he who is remaining in Jerusalem, `Holy' is said of him, Of every one who is written for life in Jerusalem. 4 If the Lord hath washed away The filth of daughters of Zion, And the blood of Jerusalem purgeth from her midst, By the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.[SIZE=+2] [/SIZE]