What happened to the jew's Messiah?

[LittleLambofJesus]

According to christians and muslims, the Lord is returning in the future.
How can that happen before the messiah the jews are waiting shows up? Thoughts?

Jeremiah 31:31 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a new covenant,

Isaiah 65:17 " For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem [as] a rejoicing, And her people a joy.

 

[peepnklown]

According to Christians and Muslims, the Lord is returning in the future.

And this is meaningless to the followers of Judaism. How about you stop posting ‘proof text’ and start learning about the Jewish Moshiach.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And this is meaningless to the followers of Judaism. How about you stop posting ‘proof text’ and start learning about the Jewish Moshiach.

Jesus is the Moshiach in the Bible.

How about you explaining why christians and muslims are waiting on the return of the Lord and New heaven and earth of Isaiah 65 which cannot happen until the jews' Messiah/Moshiach shows up to Israel. Do the jews understand that? Peace.

Jeremiah 31:31 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a new covenant, 33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days,

Isaiah 65:17 " For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem [as] a rejoicing, And her people a joy.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2869312-questions-for-all-religions-on-revelation.html

 

[arunma]

Jesus is the Moshiach in the Bible.

Not to mention that the Messiah of the Christian Bible is vastly different from the Messiah of Judaism. From what I can tell, the Jewish messiah is little more than a politician. And what need does the world have for one more of those?

 

[peepnklown]

Jesus is the Moshiach in the Bible.

The requirements of the Moshiach are outlined in the Hebrew bible, and if the person doesn’t fulfill them all, he is not the Moshiach. I will give you a hint, Jesus did not fulfill them.

Not to mention that the Messiah of the Christian Bible is vastly different from the Messiah of Judaism.

I can agree that the modern ideal of the Messiah (Christainity) is vastly different from the Jewish Moshaich. The author of Matthew went to great lengths to say that Jesus was the Jewish Moshiach. But, Jesus didn’t fit the mold.

From what I can tell, the Jewish messiah is little more than a politician.

Well, its not only what the Jewish Moshiach will do, but the age which comes when he comes.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The requirements of the Moshiach are outlined in the Hebrew bible, and if the person doesn’t fulfill them all, he is not the Moshiach. I will give you a hint, Jesus did not fulfill them.
I can agree that the modern ideal of the Messiah (Christainity) is vastly different from the Jewish Moshaich. The author of Matthew went to great lengths to say that Jesus was the Jewish Moshiach. But, Jesus didn’t fit the mold.
Well, its not only what the Jewish Moshiach will do, but the age which comes when he comes.

How did Jesus not fulfill them?
If Jesus wasn't the Moshiach then we nor the jews have to worry about the Day of the Lord until He shows up. Do the jews know that

(Young) 2 Peter 3:10 and it will come--the day of the Lord--as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.

(Young) Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more; 2 and I, John, saw the holy city--new Jerusalem--coming down from God out of the heaven,

 

[arunma]

I can agree that the modern ideal of the Messiah (Christainity) is vastly different from the Jewish Moshaich. The author of Matthew went to great lengths to say that Jesus was the Jewish Moshiach. But, Jesus didn’t fit the mold.

If only you said that Jesus didn't fit the mold that modern Jewish rabbis have made in place of the word of God, then I would agree. But as it stands, I contest your claim on the requirements of the Messiah, as given in the Scriptures.

Well, its not only what the Jewish Moshiach will do, but the age which comes when he comes.

And what else does he do? From what Jews tell me, he restores a political state of Israel, and somehow coerces the world to obey the Torah. Where is the theodicy in this?

 

[peepnklown]

How did Jesus not fulfill them?

Honestly, it’s rather annoying when you make claims and haven’t done the research.
I will give you only one of the criterions: The Moshiach will rebuild the Temple (physical Temple, not a spiritual one) and re-establish its worship.
The Jews (who follow Judaism) know that the Moshiach hasn’t shown up.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Honestly, it’s rather annoying when you make claims and haven’t done the research.
I will give you only one of the criterions: The Moshiach will rebuild the Temple (physical Temple, not a spiritual one) and re-establish its worship.

The Jews (who follow Judaism) know that the Moshiach hasn’t shown up.

That is what they think.
Is that after or before the Great Day of the Lord God Almighty?

Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye, for near [is] the day of Jehovah, As destruction from the Mighty it cometh. 7 Therefore, all hands do fail, And every heart of man doth melt. 8 And they have been troubled, Pains and pangs they take, As a travailing woman they are pained, A man at his friend they marvel, The appearance of flames--their faces! 9 Lo, the day of Jehovah doth come, Fierce, with wrath, and heat of anger, To make the land become a desolation, Yea, its sinning ones He destroyeth from it.

(Young) 2 Peter 3:10 and it will come--the day of the Lord--as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.

 

[peepnklown]

If only you said that Jesus didn't fit the mold that modern Jewish rabbis have made in place of the word of God, then I would agree.

The Moshiach’s requirements have been known to the Jewish people from the 1st century BCE until now. Moshiach claimants have been around since the 1st century BCE.

But as it stands, I contest your claim on the requirements of the Messiah, as given in the Scriptures.

So, from where do we get the requirements of the Moshiach? Where did the author of Matthew look for them? In the Hebrew bible…

From what Jews tell me, he restores a political state of Israel, and somehow coerces the world to obey the Torah.

It’s not only about what the Moshiach will do, it’s also about the World to Come. If you would like me to enlighten you, I will.

 

[peepnklown]

That is what they think.

If Jesus fulfilled the requirements then by all means, site each requirement and tell us how Jesus fulfilled it.

Is that after or before the Great Day of the Lord God Almighty?

First, stop quoting ‘proof text’ out of context, and without any commentary.
Second, answer the challenge above and then we’ll continue this.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That is what they think.
Is that after or before the Great Day of the Lord God Almighty?

Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye, for near [is] the day of Jehovah, As destruction from the Mighty it cometh. 7 Therefore, all hands do fail, And every heart of man doth melt. 8 And they have been troubled, Pains and pangs they take, As a travailing woman they are pained, A man at his friend they marvel, The appearance of flames--their faces! 9 Lo, the day of Jehovah doth come, Fierce, with wrath, and heat of anger, To make the land become a desolation, Yea, its sinning ones He destroyeth from it.

(Young) 2 Peter 3:10 and it will come--the day of the Lord--as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.

If Jesus fulfilled the requirements then by all means, site each requirement and tell us how Jesus fulfilled it.
First, stop quoting ‘proof text’ out of context, and without any commentary.
Second, answer the challenge above and then we’ll continue this.

Nope. Just answer the question. Does the jew's Moshiach come before or after the Great Day of the Lord? The jews can build but it sure won't be God's Sanctuary or temple.

zeph 1:2 " I will utterly consume everything From the face of the land," Says the LORD; 3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD. 4 "I will stretch out My hand against Judah, And against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off every trace of Baal from this place,

 

[peepnklown]

Nope. Just answer the question.

Of course you won’t, because you haven’t done your homework.
So, before I answer your question you have to support your claim.

Jesus is the Moshiach in the Bible.

Now, if Jesus is the Moshiach, then site each requirement and tell us how Jesus fulfilled it.
Then, I shall move on.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That is what they think.
Is that after or before the Great Day of the Lord God Almighty?

Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye, for near [is] the day of Jehovah, As destruction from the Mighty it cometh. 7 Therefore, all hands do fail, And every heart of man doth melt. 8 And they have been troubled, Pains and pangs they take, As a travailing woman they are pained, A man at his friend they marvel, The appearance of flames--their faces! 9 Lo, the day of Jehovah doth come, Fierce, with wrath, and heat of anger, To make the land become a desolation, Yea, its sinning ones He destroyeth from it.

(Young) 2 Peter 3:10 and it will come--the day of the Lord--as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.

Of course you won’t, because you haven’t done your homework.
So, before I answer your question you have to support your claim.
Now, if Jesus is the Moshiach, then site each requirement and tell us how Jesus fulfilled it.
Then, I shall move on.

Does the jew's Moshiach come before or after the Great Day of the Lord? If you can't answer that, then you haven't done your homework.

zeph 1:2 " I will utterly consume everything From the face of the land," Says the LORD; 3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD. 4 "I will stretch out My hand against Judah, And against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off every trace of Baal from this place,

 

[arunma]

So, from where do we get the requirements of the Moshiach? Where did the author of Matthew look for them? In the Hebrew bible…

That isn't at issue here.

It’s not only about what the Moshiach will do, it’s also about the World to Come. If you would like me to enlighten you, I will.

By all means. But as you know, I consider the rabbis to be false teachers and liars, and I would recognize the divine authority of an Imam before I would theirs, so I'm curious as to how you will go about this.

First, stop quoting ‘proof text’ out of context, and without any commentary.

I too am fond of commentaries. Here is that of John Wesley:

Behold - And not only with the Jews, but all those who should be ingrafted into that Olive. It is not called the new covenant, because it was as to the substance new, for it was made with Abraham, Gen_17:7, and with the Jews, Deu_26:17-18, but because it was revealed after a new manner, more fully and particularly, plainly and clearly. Nor was the ceremonial law any part of it, as it was to the Jews, a strict observance of that. It was likewise new in regard of the efficacy of the spirit attending it, in a much fuller and larger manner.
​

Is there another commentator whose work you would like us to quote alongside the Biblical text? If you were looking for us to quote Jewish commentators, then I don't think you'll be able to debate us, since we do not recognize their authority.

 

[peepnklown]

If you can't answer that, then you haven't done your homework.

Of course, a typical dodge, why don’t you be honest and say that you cannot substantiate your claim?
You made the claim in post #3 and haven’t supported this claim but want me to continue answering your questions but will not support your claim? No, I will not let you run from this one.
“The buck stops here!”

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Of course, a typical dodge, why don’t you be honest and say that you cannot substantiate your claim?
You made the claim in post #3 and haven’t supported this claim but want me to continue answering your questions but will not support your claim? No, I will not let you run from this one.
“The buck stops here!”

Actually, the buck stopped upon the destruction of the Jewish Nation and Temple in the first century.

Does the jew's Moshiach come before or after the Great Day of the Lord?

zeph 1:2 " I will utterly consume everything From the face of the land," Says the LORD; 3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD. 4 "I will stretch out My hand against Judah, And against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off every trace of Baal from this place,

Matt 23: 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Naos of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be Casting- Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

 

[peepnklown]

That isn't at issue here.

It became an issue when you said this:

But as it stands, I contest your claim on the requirements of the Messiah, as given in the Scriptures.

If you contest my claim on the requirements, then you will have to supply your claim on the requirements.

By all means. But as you know, I consider the rabbis to be false teachers and liars, and I would recognize the divine authority of an Imam before I would theirs, so I'm curious as to how you will go about this.

The odd thing about this is that the requirements were known of the Jewish people long before ‘rabbis’ whom didn’t come into the picture till after 200 CE. One doesn’t have to be a Sage or a Rabbi to find clues of the Moshiach, one only have to connect the dots. So, how about this, tell me your view on the requirements.

Is there another commentator whose work you would like us to quote alongside the Biblical text?

I never asked for a commentator, I asked him to supply some type of commentary along with his proof text instead of posting a proof text without even talking about it or supporting it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Does the jew's Moshiach come before or after the Great Day of the Lord?

zeph 1:2 " I will utterly consume everything From the face of the land," Says the LORD; 3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD. 4 "I will stretch out My hand against Judah, And against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off every trace of Baal from this place,

Matt 23: 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Naos of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be Casting- Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

Of course, a typical dodge, why don’t you be honest and say that you cannot substantiate your claim?
You made the claim in post #3 and haven’t supported this claim but want me to continue answering your questions but will not support your claim? No, I will not let you run from this one.
“The buck stops here!”

Did Jesus make a false prophecy here? I doubt if a True Jewish Moshiach would make a prophecy like this and it not come to pass, otherwise he would be a False Moshiach, correct?

Luke 21:22 "For these are the Days of Vengeance, that ALL Things which are Written may be Fulfilled.

1 Peter 4:7 But the End of ALL things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.

 

[peepnklown]

Actually, the buck stopped upon the destruction of the Jewish Nation and Temple in the first century.

Technically, Israel as a nation was disbanded long before the destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 CE.
Are you going to support your claim or not? If you will be honest about not supporting your claim or finally support your claim I shall answer your question.