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<>< said:I mean "murder." Oops.
butxifxnot said:hm? it also says to obey God rather than men.
I will not kill for the sake of telling they're compatriots that they're way is wrong.
hm? so if the government says to kill all your firstborn, you do it? arguing, of course, that God Himself says to obey the government?12volt_man said:Once again, you're taking scripture out of context.
The verse you're referring to, Acts 5:29, is referring to preaching the Gospel.
The principle here isn't that we should ignore God's command to be in submission to Earthly authorities, but that we should choose to follow God's laws over man's when the two contradict. Since I can't find anyplace in scripture where warfare or soldiering are condemned, I don't see how this verse is applicable here.
While we should always try to obey God rather than men, simple logic tells us that, if we are commanded to be in submission to the government, then to obey the government is to obey God.
It simply isn't logical to say, "I will obey God by disobeying God."
Nor would I.
oh! don't listen to the first para. let me rephrase that.butxifxnot said:hm? so if the government says to kill all your firstborn, you do it? arguing, of course, that God Himself says to obey the government?
And that is what the war on Iraq is about. We go to war to establish a democracy, saying that they're government is not right as it is.
"it is enough that a slave be like his master."12volt_man said:Once again, you're taking scripture out of context.
The verse you're referring to, Acts 5:29, is referring to preaching the Gospel.
The principle here isn't that we should ignore God's command to be in submission to Earthly authorities, but that we should choose to follow God's laws over man's when the two contradict. Since I can't find anyplace in scripture where warfare or soldiering are condemned, I don't see how this verse is applicable here.
While we should always try to obey God rather than men, simple logic tells us that, if we are commanded to be in submission to the government, then to obey the government is to obey God.
It simply isn't logical to say, "I will obey God by disobeying God."
Nor would I.
butxifxnot said:hm? so if the government says to kill all your firstborn, you do it? arguing, of course, that God Himself says to obey the government?
And that is what the war on Iraq is about. We go to war to establish a democracy, saying that they're government is not right as it is.
oh, yes. very good point.12volt_man said:I believe you're smart enough to realize that there is a difference between going to war to defend your country, your allies and your interests and arbitrarily killing babies.
Actually, that's not why we continued the war in Iraq at all. The fact that we have replaced their dictatorship with a rudimentary democracy is a pleasant consequence, but not the reason we reconvened the war.
Regardless, whether you agree or disagree with the war is another discussion for another thread. This thread concerns, specifically, the morality of killing in wartime.
butxifxnot said:Now, do you see Jesus as going to basic training being taught how to kill people in numerous ways?
The Israelites did not have a military. They were only the citizens with some swords they picked up, all the other countries outmatched them in skill and usually numbers, but only through God did they win. They did not have a military.
And we train them, not trusting in God as the Israelites did; seeing as your justification comes from the OT.
I can only give my thanks and prayers to you Kat. I am a vet and I and my family know the sacrifices you and your husband are dealing with. While others here will curse you and condemn you and your husband I can only offer up my prayers for you. It's apalling to me that there are christians on this site that would even suggest what your husband is doing is some how wrong.Katydid said:Let me just say that I will not argue definitions or scriptures on this one. This is the second time that I have felt that my family, especially my husband, is being judged. My husband is the most faithful, prayerful, loving man I know. He is completely nonconfrontational in every way. He is truly a turn the other cheek kinda guy. Yet, he is a soldier. To you, that seems like those two things don't go together, but what you don't realize is the mindset of a soldier. They do not fight because they want to. They don't do it for glory or honor or medals or to look tough. They do this out of love. Love for their G-d, thier country, their family, and all of you who don't understand or don't care. My husband believes, as do I, that he is protecting your right to pray, your right to protest, your right to live and breath. If G-d were to look at him and tell him, "hey, you killed someone so you can't get into heaven", his first question would be, "but my wife and kids and family can, right?". He is the definition of selfless service. I cannot believe how many people judge soldiers for what they do. They are usually the ones praying when all others don't. We have Chaplains there to give people their appropriate rituals if they die, to minister to them before, during, and after battle. The medics and Chaplains are also there to help the enemy troops. Please do not judge my husband or any other soldier for what they do. You do not have the right to do that, only G-d does. Is murder right, NO. Is protecting your family and billions of strangers right, YES. That is what my husband does. He protects your right to state that he may go to hell. That he is a murderer. So the next time you decide that his job is wrong, then just remember that he and all the men by his side now, those from the past, and those yet to come are the ones giving you the right to feel that way.
Many multiples less than what the other half of the world has killed of it's own!<>< said:How many people have "CHRISTIANS" from USA killed since then? In the name of who?
I'm sure he wouldn't but I'm also sure that you have condemned all those men in your tidy little photo to hell anyway!<>< said:Would you kill/murder the people in my icon photo for GW Bush?
The point was directed at a person who claims to be a Christian who lives in USA. In the eyes of some, USA is a "Christian" nation (actually, a nation with many Christians), hence the significance of my jab. ("the other half of the world" isn't claiming to be Christian, are they?)nephilimiyr said:Many multiples less than what the other half of the world has killed of it's own!
<>< you love to judge christians from the USA but don't at all take into account the heart in which those men fought and died? You don't show yourself as on any kind of moral high ground sir! I pray you fall down on your knees and pray to the almighty God!
I reject their religion as the religion that comes from God, but I do not condemn the individuals.nephilimiyr said:I'm sure he wouldn't but I'm also sure that you have condemned all those men in your tidy little photo to hell anyway!
I can only assume that this is a reference to me, although the name is greatly mutilated.nephilimiyr said:As for the forumer(TRISHBOD) who rudely disgraced this women and her husband by questioning her husbands job I can only offer up my prayers to you too sir. May the Lord have mercy on you. You may think you're above it all but untill you realize your nothing God will treat you as so!
Isn't that the pope in the white?<>< said:I reject their religion as the religion that comes from God, but I do not condemn the individuals.
I would agree with that statement.TSIBHOD said:In my opinioin, at least, the issue is not salvific. I just think that Christians would do better to not be soldiers. But, each man must obey his own conscience, I suppose.
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