What exactly is the law?

bugkiller · Feb 11, 2013

toLiJC said:
"inimical" means something: unfavorable, hostile, malicious, or prejudicial, because we testified about the fact that many israelites/jews casued harm to the(ir) neighbour(s) exactly because of the ordinances which ordered to be done so

Blessings

Yes I read the definition I posted. Glad you agree. Why is one told to do or not do something?

bugkiller

toLiJC · Feb 11, 2013

bugkiller said:
Yes I read the definition I posted. Glad you agree. Why is one told to do or not do something?

bugkiller

we already explained that on the one hand satan had an inner/domestic power in the times before the New Testament whereby it was able to inculcate an inimical part of the ordinances in the old testament, while on the other hand God the Father has after annulled the inimical part of the ordinances in the Testament by His Son - Jesus Christ replacing them with relevant good substituents(ordinances) and destroying the inner/domestic power of satan permanently

Blessings

Emmy · Feb 11, 2013

Dear bugkiller. Jesus tells us exactly in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus states this fact: " On these two Commandments hang ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS." Jesus also told us: " If you Love me you will follow my Commandments. By following Jesus`s Commandments we show that we are His followers, and that we Love Him and Obey Him. Two Commandments:
Love and Obey. Everything we say or do, everything we advise or stand for,
Must be from Love for God, and love and compassion for our neighbour: all we
know and all we meet, friends and not friends. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with his Love, also. Then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with all around us. (Matthew 7: 7-8)
" Ask and ye will receive." We keep asking God and thanking God, and sharing all with our neighbour. God wants our Love, freely given and No conditions tagged on. I say this with love, bugkiller. Greetings from Emmy,
your sister in Christ.

bugkiller · Feb 11, 2013

toLiJC said:
we already explained that on the one hand satan had an inner/domestic power in the times before the New Testament whereby it was able to inculcate an inimical part of the ordinances in the old testament, while on the other hand God the Father has after annulled the inimical part of the ordinances in the Testament by His Son - Jesus Christ replacing them with relevant good substituents(ordinances) and destroying the inner/domestic power of satan permanently

Blessings

OK I guess you need to express it more on my level. I do understand the word as the definition I posted. It is an uncommon word for me and not part of my active vocabulary. I do believe you can dumb it dow for me.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Feb 11, 2013

Emmy said:
Dear bugkiller. Jesus tells us exactly in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus states this fact: " On these two Commandments hang ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS." Jesus also told us: " If you Love me you will follow my Commandments. By following Jesus`s Commandments we show that we are His followers, and that we Love Him and Obey Him. Two Commandments:
Love and Obey. Everything we say or do, everything we advise or stand for,
Must be from Love for God, and love and compassion for our neighbour: all we
know and all we meet, friends and not friends. Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with his Love, also. Then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with all around us. (Matthew 7: 7-8)
" Ask and ye will receive." We keep asking God and thanking God, and sharing all with our neighbour. God wants our Love, freely given and No conditions tagged on. I say this with love, bugkiller. Greetings from Emmy,
your sister in Christ.

Thank you. I think of you as a sweetheart. I did not say my sweetheart. Nice post and good to see you. BTW happy Valentined Day.

bugkiller

toLiJC · Feb 12, 2013

bugkiller said:
OK I guess you need to express it more on my level. I do understand the word as the definition I posted. It is an uncommon word for me and not part of my active vocabulary. I do believe you can dumb it dow for me.

bugkiller

read here and take notice of the examples in blue: inimical - definition of inimical by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Blessings

bugkiller · Feb 12, 2013

toLiJC said:
read here and take notice of the examples in blue: inimical - definition of inimical by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Blessings

OK, here is proof I at least visited the link -

1. Injurious or harmful in effect; adverse: habits inimical to good health.
2. Unfriendly; hostile: a cold, inimical voice.

[Late Latin inim c lis, from Latin inim cus, enemy; see enemy.]

1. adverse or unfavourable
2. not friendly; hostile [from Late Latin inimīcālis, from inimīcus, from in-1 + amīcus friendly; see enemy]

Adj.1.inimical - not friendly; "an unfriendly act of aggression"; "an inimical critic" unfriendly
hostile - characterized by enmity or ill will; "a hostile nation"; "a hostile remark"; "hostile actions"

To threaten or require punishment is hostility toward someone. That would be an adverse action toward the desire and effectively and eventually the life of an individual.

Eph 2:15

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace; KJV

Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees; that he might make the two in himself into one new man, making peace; Douy-Rheims

by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, NIV 1984

He made of no effect the law consisting of commands and expressed in regulations, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace. Holman Christian 2009

He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace, ISV 2012

And he has canceled the hatred by his flesh and the law of commands in his commandments, that for the two, he would create in his Person one new man, and he has made peace. Aramaic 2010

by setting aside the Law with its commandments, expressed, as they were, in definite decrees. His design was to unite the two sections of humanity in Himself so as to form one new man, Weymouth NT

having abolished in the flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace; WEB

the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new man, making peace, YLT

Please note the word enmity in some of the versions. Please also not the making peace (unity) found in them.

This really says the law is hostile and was done away with.

There are plenty of commentaries with great comments on this verse.

Rom 8:7

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. KJV

the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. NIV 1984

For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to Gods law; indeed, it cannot. ESV 2001

because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, NASB 1995

Because the mind of the flesh is hatred toward God, for it is not subject to the law of God because it cannot be. Aramaic 2010

So the hostility is a mutual thing. I have shown from the Scripture the law (10 Cs) are hostile in compliance with the definition of inimical. I have also shown that the hostile law (ordinances) are done away with and inaffective having no jurisdiction. There are many more passages related to the subject and issues brought up with these two verses.

bugkiller

toLiJC · Feb 13, 2013

bugkiller said:
OK, here is proof I at least visited the link -

1. Injurious or harmful in effect; adverse: habits inimical to good health.
2. Unfriendly; hostile: a cold, inimical voice.

[Late Latin inim c lis, from Latin inim cus, enemy; see enemy.]

1. adverse or unfavourable
2. not friendly; hostile [from Late Latin inimīcālis, from inimīcus, from in-1 + amīcus friendly; see enemy]

Adj.1.inimical - not friendly; "an unfriendly act of aggression"; "an inimical critic" unfriendly
hostile - characterized by enmity or ill will; "a hostile nation"; "a hostile remark"; "hostile actions"

To threaten or require punishment is hostility toward someone. That would be an adverse action toward the desire and effectively and eventually the life of an individual.

the written, independently of what is it, cannot hurt any human/soul without be fulfilled/executed, but if it orders something which is inimical to some human, then if it be fulfilled/executed, some human may thereupon be affected, and the law is called "law" because it does not act alone of itself, but there should be someone who fulfils/executes it, otherwise the "law" would not be fulfilled/executed - and we have meant that exactly all this make the adverse law inimical, then the word "inimical" can be used in all cases, because there is no difference between injunction and execution in its meaning

bugkiller said:
Eph 2:15

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace; KJV
.......
Please note the word enmity in some of the versions. Please also not the making peace (unity) found in them.

This really says the law is hostile and was done away with.

There are plenty of commentaries with great comments on this verse.

Rom 8:7

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. KJV
.......
So the hostility is a mutual thing. I have shown from the Scripture the law (10 Cs) are hostile in compliance with the definition of inimical. I have also shown that the hostile law (ordinances) are done away with and inaffective having no jurisdiction. There are many more passages related to the subject and issues brought up with these two verses.

bugkiller

the 10 Commandments are not hostile of themselves, but the hostility may come only from someone who is hostile to another human, however the 10 Commandments are still in force and are not done away with, and here is how Jesus has shown their harmlessness:

John 8:3-11 "the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not(viz. in order to remind them about the Ten Commandments written with the Finger of God). So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her(viz. thus you can violate the Ten Commandments). And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground(viz. and He again continues to remind them about the Ten Commandments written with the Finger of God, one of which is: "Thou shalt not kill."). And they which heard it(i.e. and then they understood what exactly He alluded, and), being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more(viz. and it would be good if you also keep the Ten Commandments)."

because in good hands they are not harmful

Blessings

WailingWall · Feb 13, 2013

Tangible said:
Why? Christ is the end of the law for righteousness.

What does this mean?

Alls that means is what it says. No matter how well we keep Gods law we will fall short. We will be as filthy rags. By the keeping of the law no one will be made righteous. Its only by the blood of Christ. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness.

bugkiller · Feb 13, 2013

toLiJC said:
the written, independently of what is it, cannot hurt any human/soul without be fulfilled/executed, but if it orders something which is inimical to some human, then if it be fulfilled/executed, some human may thereupon be affected, and the law is called "law" because it does not act alone of itself, but there should be someone who fulfils/executes it, otherwise the "law" would not be fulfilled/executed - and we have meant that exactly all this make the adverse law inimical, then the word "inimical" can be used in all cases, because there is no difference between injunction and execution in its meaning

You know that is true stone can not hurt you while is laying on the ground unless you fall on it. True a picture hang on the wall can not hurt you. IOW thihngs in and of themselves cannot hurt you. But do have the power to hurt you? Absoultely! when you interact with them in some way. The problem with the law is you interact with it liked or not. It is not the stone that hurts you it is the unavoidable interaction with the stone that does. It will do violence to you. In this case it is both spiritually/mentally and physically. Is this not hostile causing unfavourable as in detrimental transactions to an individual?

One may say adiltery has not hurt me. Really? Be honest. At the least it changes permently the relationship on every level with one's spouce and in some cases even causes death. One may also say such is not related to the law. Really? The law always wins unless one finds grace which voids the law. This holds true for any law anywhere a law has jurisdiction. The interesting thing is the law has no jurisdiction over the Christian. For the Christian the law has been revoked and has no jurisdiction/power.

But wait am I saying adultery still can not hurt an individual even as the law requires? No! This is because adultery is sin. Sin also destroys. Remember sin was present before the law. So sin is not only violation of the law. Most all sin also violates the law. No not all sin violates the law. Rom 14:23 ...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. There is no point to be found in the law requiring faith i.e. thou shalt have faith. Yet lack of faith is sin.[/quote]

the 10 Commandments are not hostile of themselves, but the hostility may come only from someone who is hostile to another human, however the 10 Commandments are still in force and are not done away with, and here is how Jesus has shown their harmlessness: [/quote]Then the 10 Cs have no value in reality if your argument holds water. No the hostility (actual physical manifestations) between two things or people is a result of sin and not casued by the law. The law seeks to regulate sin out of existence. The law has failed miserably thanks to God's gift of free will that can not be rejected. This is the fault of the law: the law can not change the heart. (see Rom 8) Free will can be surendered by submission, but that is a choice of free will and submission can changed back to rebellion.

Now to tell some one not to do something is against/hostile to/inimical to them and their free will.

John 8:3-11 "the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not(viz. in order to remind them about the Ten Commandments written with the Finger of God). So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her(viz. thus you can violate the Ten Commandments). And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground(viz. and He again continues to remind them about the Ten Commandments written with the Finger of God, one of which is: "Thou shalt not kill."). And they which heard it(i.e. and then they understood what exactly He alluded, and), being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more(viz. and it would be good if you also keep the Ten Commandments)."

because in good hands they are not harmful

Blessings

Are you adding to the Scripture with your comments. Jesus' verbal conversation was - He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. There is no record of law discussion.

Your use of the Ten Commandments written with the Finger of God, one of which is: "Thou shalt not kill." violates the law's requirements as you have used it. This invalidates and makes the law worthless. Violation requires death administered by the law as mentioned in the quoted passage.

Now do you want to talk about cheap grace?

bugkiller

bugkiller · Feb 13, 2013

WailingWall said:
Alls that means is what it says. No matter how well we keep Gods law we will fall short. We will be as filthy rags. By the keeping of the law no one will be made righteous. Its only by the blood of Christ. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness.

Effectively this means there is no salvation and every thing really is only vanity.

bugkiller

Sophrosyne · Feb 13, 2013

bugkiller said:
Effectively this means there is no salvation and every thing really is only vanity.

bugkiller

I think the key word here overlooked is righteousness.
We constantly see preaching here that is directly related to the Law either keeping or gaining favor and righteousness unto God when in fact it does nothing but separate us further from him the more it condemns us of sin. Either we are in Jesus who doesn't condemn us at all and we are seen as righteous or we are under the Law condemned of sin and righteousness is nowhere in sight.
You can't have it both ways, flee to the Law to keep from sinning then flee to grace when the Law condemns you of sinning when you flee to it in the first place. It is like a catch 22 you can't win if the Law is part of the equation.

WailingWall · Feb 13, 2013

bugkiller said:
Effectively this means there is no salvation and every thing really is only vanity.

bugkiller

Vainity? Thats your practice, not mine.

PSALM 119 [113] I HATE VAIN THOUGHTS: BUT THY LAW DO I LOVE. [114] Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word. [115] Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I WILL KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF MY GOD. [116] Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.

My practice

2 KINGS 17 [15] And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and THEY FOLLOWED VANITY, and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the Lord had charged them, that they should not do like them. [16] And THEY LEFT ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.

Your practice

WailingWall · Feb 13, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
I think the key word here overlooked is righteousness.
We constantly see preaching here that is directly related to the Law

Yeah, its the key word

1JOHN2 [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[29] If ye know that he is righteous, YE KNOW THAT EVERY ONE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BORN OF HIM.

This new covenant scripture claims if you are born of God, you will be acting righteously.

DEUT.6 [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments. OBSERVE TO DO! We will fall short.

PSALM 119 [172] My tongue shall speak of thy word: for ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.[173] Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.[174] I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

For ALL thy commandments are righteousness (even the keeping of the sabbath). Also mentioned here is salvation. Being saved.

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and THY RIGHTEOUSNESS as the waves of the sea:

LORD-REDEEMER-HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL (no question as to who that is). The new testament says Jesus was the WORD of God that became flesh. The only WORD of God around when Jesus came was the old testament. In Isaiah OUR REDEEMER tells us we are to keep the commandments if we are to be righteous.

The new testament says the same thing the old testament said.

1COR.15 [34] AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND SIN NOT; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 JOHN 3 [7] Little children, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[8] HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

LUKE 1 [6] And they were BOTH RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD, WALKING IN ALL THE COMMANDMENTS and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

1 PETER 4 [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[18] And IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

And if not for the gift of grace through faith no one would be saved for all have fallen short. Except of course, JESUS.

WailingWall · Feb 13, 2013

On the other hand INIQUITY

PSALM 94 [11] The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. [12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law; [13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. [14] For the Lord will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. [15] But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. [16] WHO WILL RISE UP FOR ME AGAINST THE EVILDOERS? OR WHO WILL STAND UP FOR ME AGAINST THE WORKERS OF INIQUITY?

LEV.5 [17] And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.

Break commandments=iniquity

NUMBERS 15 [31] Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Break commandments=iniquity

PSALMS 89 [30] If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;[31] If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;[32] Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

Break commandments=iniquity

MATT.7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Ye that work iniquity=I never knew you

1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Theres the children that know the Lord.

JEREMIAH 16 [9] For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride. [10] And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? or WHAT IS OUR INIQUITY? or what is our sin that we have committed against the Lord our God? [11] Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, AND HAVE FORSAKEN ME, AND HAVE NOT KEPT MY LAW;

Verses 14 and 15 of this chapter in Jeremiah speaks of the gathering of Gods people (in the twinkling of an eye) to the 1000 yr period of rest. At that time, the many (Matt.7) will ask what is our iniquity. The answer given will be simple. You have not kept MY law. Gods 10 commandments.

Sophrosyne · Feb 13, 2013

WailingWall said:
[snipped out stuff]
And if not for the gift of grace through faith no one would be saved for all have fallen short. Except of course, JESUS.

Here is the truth of the matter, grace saved us the Law does nothing for us but leads us around in circles confusing us about sin and our relationship to God. Sin erects a barrier between us and God and the Law does nothing but show the barrier while grace shatters that barrier the Law showed us and allows us to walk right past what was there.

WailingWall · Feb 13, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
Here is the truth of the matter, grace saved us the Law does nothing for us but leads us around in circles confusing us about sin and our relationship to God. Sin erects a barrier between us and God and the Law does nothing but show the barrier while grace shatters that barrier the Law showed us and allows us to walk right past what was there.

We are saved by the grace of God...but you say the law does nothing for us? Not according to scripture

EPH.2 [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.[8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

It is by the grace of God that we are saved. But to whom is this free gift given? Verse 10 says that those people who will receive the free gift of grace will be walking in good works. What are these good works which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that "we must walk in"?

2 JOHN 1 [4] I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. [6] And this is love, that WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YE SHOULD WALK IN IT.

Youve heard it from the beginning {before ordained}. Its the 10 commandments that we should walk in.

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.[2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:[3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.[4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.[5] For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:[6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:[7] That they might set their hope in God, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] THEY KEPT NOT THE COVENANT OF GOD, AND REFUSED TO WALK IN HIS LAW;[11] AND FORGAT HIS WORKS, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

We all know who opened his mouth in parables and who established a testimony in Jacob. Yup, its JESUS CHRIST. So according to Eph.2 Gods people who recieve the free gift of grace, will be walking in the WORKS that God ordained {verse 7}. But...verse 9 and 10 prophecies of what will happen to the many, because they refuse to walk after the 10 commandments.

Sophrosyne · Feb 13, 2013

WailingWall said:
We are saved by the grace of God...but you say the law does nothing for us? Not according to scripture
.

When we are saved by grace are we considered sinless or not? Did the Law save us or not?

fhansen · Feb 13, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
I think the key word here overlooked is righteousness.
We constantly see preaching here that is directly related to the Law either keeping or gaining favor and righteousness unto God when in fact it does nothing but separate us further from him the more it condemns us of sin. Either we are in Jesus who doesn't condemn us at all and we are seen as righteous or we are under the Law condemned of sin and righteousness is nowhere in sight.
You can't have it both ways, flee to the Law to keep from sinning then flee to grace when the Law condemns you of sinning when you flee to it in the first place. It is like a catch 22 you can't win if the Law is part of the equation.

This would be true if the purpose of grace was forgiveness only. But the truth is that we can flee to grace to keep from sinning. "Your sins are forgiven, go, and sin no more". The only purpose of the law is to show what we should "look like" if we were righteous- but it has no power to effect that change in us itself. Only grace- only God, not man- can make that happen.

WailingWall · Feb 13, 2013

Sophrosyne said:
Here is the truth of the matter, grace saved us the Law does nothing for us

Proverbs 4

4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.
5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
8 Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.
9 She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.

Says what it says

What exactly is the law?

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Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

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