What exactly is repentance?

[greenonion]

Hello-

This is something I've been struggling with as a new Christian. What exactly is repentence? Jesus and John the Baptist called us to repent of our sins. Many churches teach that repentance is nessesary for salvation. Others teach that faith alone is nessesary for salvation. The "secular" dictionary definition of repentance makes it sound like a "work"- to stop sinning and turn around. However, I know that nothing you "do" can make you right with the Lord, only the blood of Christ. Some say that repentance is a "part" of belief- changing your mind about sin and your need for a savior.

So which understanding of repentance is the correct one? Is it the turning from sin, or is it a part (somehow) of belief? Thank you in advance.

 

[Simonline]

For the correct answer to your question (in it's correct Biblical context) see: The Normal Christian Birth by David Pawson, available online from www.anchor-recordings.com (UK) or www.Goodseed.org (USA) or from your local Christian bookstore or public lending library.

The truth is that 'salvation by faith alone' in the sense that all one has to do is simply 'believe' (i.e. give mental assent to a set of theological propositional truths) without actually doing anything, is heresy and is not taught in the Scriptures. There is an active as well as a passive dimension to salvation. We are saved by grace, through faith for good works (Eph.2:8-10; 1Tim.3:16-17; Jas.2:14-26).

If one is trusting in the fact that one agrees with certain Biblical truths to save one then one is in fact not saved and one is still dead in one's tresspasses and sins and heading for the everlasting Lake of Fire. Real faith is radical faith that revolutionizes the whole of one's life and not just changes what one thinks. Much of what is taught and believed by many Christians today is anything but genuine Christianity. As I've already said, if you want the full picture then you won't do much better than David Pawson's superb definitive work The Normal Christian Birth.

Simonline.

 

[Ant21]

repentence consists of 1. a true sence of ones own guilt and sinfulness; 2. an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ; 3. An actual hatred of sin (psalm 119:28; Job 42:5-6; 2 Corinthians 7:10) and turning from it to God; and 4. a persistant endeavour after a Holy life in a walking with God in the way of His commandments.

 

[greenonion]

My "responses" will be in PURPLE. Thank you.

The truth is that 'salvation by faith alone' in the sense that all one has to do is simply 'believe' (i.e. give mental assent to a set of theological propositional truths) without actually doing anything, is heresy and is not taught in the Scriptures. There is an active as well as a passive dimension to salvation. We are saved by grace, through faith for good works (Eph.2:8-10; 1Tim.3:16-17; Jas.2:14-26). I understand this part. Even the devil knows about Christ and His sacrifice. I understand how one can intellectually understand how Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins, yet not accept Christ has his Lord and Savior.

If one is trusting in the fact that one agrees with certain Biblical truths to save one then one is in fact not saved and one is still dead in one's tresspasses and sins and heading for the everlasting Lake of Fire. Real faith is radical faith that revolutionizes the whole of one's life and not just changes what one thinks. I understand about this radical faith, when you give your life to Christ and accept Him as your Lord and Savior. This faith manifests itself in acts of love. That is what James is all about, correct?

Much of what is taught and believed by many Christians today is anything but genuine Christianity. As I've already said, if you want the full picture then you won't do much better than David Pawson's superb definitive work The Normal Christian Birth. I will see if I can find this book in my local store. Thank you for the recomend.

Simonline.

So then, Simonline, is repentance (as defined by Ant21) a part of "true faith" - faith that is "backed-up" by actions. Faith that is all encompassing trust in the Risen Lord?

 

[mannysee]

Hi greenonion,

Repentance is a change of mind, and to repent means to change your mind concerning something. The New Testament mentions repentance from dead works (a change of mind from doing 'dead' works). Now a change of mind would result in turning away from dead works also. i.e. "Repentance toward God, faith toward Christ". It is God who gives this repentance.

 

[holo]

I don't think we need to know neither greek definitions of words nor lenghty books to understand how to get from here to heaven.
In any case our salvation is brought to us by Jesus.

I think sometimes it's good to see what the bible does NOT say.
We don't have to feel any particular way to be saved.
It is not by works, becaus then it cannot be of faith, and it would depend on us. Besides, it would mean we're saved one minute and doomed the next.

I think repentance most of all has to do with admitting that you can't make it on your own - that you need God.

 

[Simonline]

My "responses" will be in PURPLE. Thank you.



So then, Simonline, is repentance (as defined by Ant21) a part of "true faith" - faith that is "backed-up" by actions. Faith that is all encompassing trust in the Risen Lord?

Hard to say, simply from what is written, seems to be, though I would class point four as essentially sanctification rather than repentence.

Simonline.

p.s. If you do manage to get hold of a copy of David's book I would appreciate any feedback that you might care to share with me?

 

[Simonline]

Hi greenonion,

Repentance is a change of mind, and to repent means to change your mind concerning something. The New Testament mentions repentance from dead works (a change of mind from doing 'dead' works). Now a change of mind would result in turning away from dead works also. i.e. "Repentance toward God, faith toward Christ". It is God who gives this repentance.

Whilst this is true, it isn't the whole picture, and herein lies the problem. This is how many Christians understand 'repentence' (as simply 'a change of mind' rather than a complete change of life). It is not enough simply to change what you think about something...that is not saving faith. It is absolutely imperative that in changing what you think about something it also changes how you act as a result. If it only changes what you think and not also how you act then it is a dead, sterile faith which will not save you from the everlasting Lake of Fire (even if you are theologically sound).

Furthermore, the 'dead' works from which we are to repent are the 'dead' works of self-righteous legalism by which we hope to attain salvation. Such 'dead' works are totally different from the good works 'which God has prepared in advance for us to do'.

Simonline.

 

[Sketcher]

Proverbs 28:13 perfectly defines repentance:

"He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy."

Confessing is acknowledging with your head, and renouncing is turning with your heart. Belief in Jesus is similar. We need to acknowledge what who He is and what He did in our heads, but turn to Him and rely on that in our hearts. We need to make Him the boss of our lives, and take ourselves off the throne.

 

[Simonline]

I don't think we need to know neither greek definitions of words nor lenghty books to understand how to get from here to heaven.
In any case our salvation is brought to us by Jesus.

I think sometimes it's good to see what the bible does NOT say.
We don't have to feel any particular way to be saved.
It is not by works, becaus then it cannot be of faith, and it would depend on us. Besides, it would mean we're saved one minute and doomed the next.

I think repentance most of all has to do with admitting that you can't make it on your own - that you need God.

This is typical of the limited understanding of someone who has been 'saved' through popular Evangelical Christianity (which invariably is reduced to the lowest common denominator - the bare minimum necessary in order to be 'saved') rather than authentic Biblical Evangelical Christianity. Such people really do need to read books such as David Pawson's The Normal Christian Birth in order to get the full Biblical picture of Christian initiation of which they have been so cruelly cheated by popular Evangelicalism a.k.a. 'the Evangelical Sausage machine'.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

Proverbs 28:13 perfectly defines repentance:

"He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy."

Confessing is acknowledging with your head, and renouncing is turning with your heart. Belief in Jesus is similar. We need to acknowledge what who He is and what He did in our heads, but turn to Him and rely on that in our hearts. We need to make Him the boss of our lives, and take ourselves off the throne.

Again, this is all 'internalised' making 'salvation' completely subjective. This is not true Biblical salvation. Unless our subjective faith is worked out in the real world of objective reality (through transformed lives and works of righteousness) then it is nothing more than dead, sterile faith.

Simonline.

 

[Sketcher]

Real faith will produce action, such as repentance when we discover new sins. But as Luther said, "Faith without works is not faith at all." We are saved by grace through faith - real faith follows through with what you know you should do. But what saves you is seriously calling upon the Lord for salvation and forgiveness, believing in Jesus. Even if you don't live another second to do a good deed, you will go to Heaven if you do that.

 

[holo]

This is typical of the limited understanding of someone who has been 'saved' through popular Evangelical Christianity (which invariably is reduced to the lowest common denominator - the bare minimum necessary in order to be 'saved') rather than authentic Biblical Evangelical Christianity. Such people really do need to read books such as David Pawson's The Normal Christian Birth in order to get the full Biblical picture of Christian initiation of which they have been so cruelly cheated by popular Evangelicalism a.k.a. 'the Evangelical Sausage machine'.

Simonline.

Not sure what you mean here.
Faith isn't enough to be saved? Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I come from a legalistic background personally, so I tend to be extreme. And I have to be, because salvation IS extreme.
btw, "popular evangelical christianity" as I know it, was legalistic.

 

[holo]

I think we need to realise that works come from faith. Back when I believed I had to repent all the time and somehow meet God on the halfway, I NEVER bore any kind of fruit except guilt and fear. But the more I lay down my own works, the more I rest and basically just hang around without fear or a worry in the world, fruit is abundant and ever increasing. It's not about not giving a damn about what you do in your everyday life, it's about WHO is doing it. One sows, another reaps, but it is God who gives growth.

 

[Simonline]

Real faith will produce action, such as repentance when we discover new sins. But as Luther said, "Faith without works is not faith at all." We are saved by grace through faith - real faith follows through with what you know you should do. But what saves you is seriously calling upon the Lord for salvation and forgiveness, believing in Jesus. Even if you don't live another second to do a good deed, you will go to Heaven if you do that.

I hear what you're saying but I still think that that is the wrong way of looking at it, we're still thinking in terms of 'what's the bare minimum I need to do in order to 'save my scalp''. Such an attitude is very revealing about what we really think inside, i.e. that we're still thinking purely in terms of 'self-preservation', in other words, we are still the center of our own 'universe' and God is still revolving around us as our 'celestial butler' or spiritual 'emergency service' / 'insurance policy', instead of coming to the realisation that actually, God is the center of the universe and absolutely everything else revolves around him. Only when we truely realize this are we then released from our over-riding need to be in control and to 'preserve' ourselves at all cost since we then realize that God is controling and preserving everything for his good pleasure.

Simonline.

 

[holo]

Salvation isn't merely the forgiveness of sin, and I think that's what's behind Peter's (I think) words about "working out our salvation". It's a process, as walk with the Lord. Obviously you can't start walking with the Lord unless you're clean in His sight, and Jesus has already fixed that part.
But we grow and learn. We don't lay the same foundation over and over (though in practice, that's what has happened to a lot of people). Grace doesn't decrease as we move forward and deeper in the knowledge of God. On the contrary, we see and experience it more and more, the fullness of it, the depths of God, how sufficient it is for us at all times. It's humbling.
Less of us, more of Him.

 

[Simonline]

Not sure what you mean here.
Faith isn't enough to be saved? Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I come from a legalistic background personally, so I tend to be extreme. And I have to be, because salvation IS extreme.
btw, "popular evangelical christianity" as I know it, was legalistic.

No, faith is enough to be saved it's just that the Biblical understanding of faith is quite different from that of most 21st century Evangelical Christians' understanding, since the Biblical understanding is infused with it's full meaning instead of being whittled down to it's bare minimum which is how most modern Evangelical Christians seem to understand it.

If you come from a legalistic background then you need to come to a truely Biblical understanding of what it means to be saved by grace, through faith, for good works (Eph.2:8-10; 1Tim.3:16-17; Jas.2:14-26) and to be 'delivered' of your legalistic upbringing.

Salvation is radical, not extreme. Exremeism is the bedfellow of legalism which is the antithesis of true Christian faith.

Popular Evangelicalism can be quite legalistic sometimes especially in it's idolatry of both 'sola fide' and evangelism.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

I think we need to realise that works come from faith. Back when I believed I had to repent all the time and somehow meet God on the halfway, I NEVER bore any kind of fruit except guilt and fear. But the more I lay down my own works, the more I rest and basically just hang around without fear or a worry in the world, fruit is abundant and ever increasing. It's not about not giving a damn about what you do in your everyday life, it's about WHO is doing it. One sows, another reaps, but it is God who gives growth.

Yes, good works of righteousness are the natural outworking ('fruit') of a living faith (which is how we know that the faith is 'living' and not 'dead') but I hear so many so called 'Evangelical Christians' emphatically repudiating anything and everything to do with works of any kind...this is pure unadulterated heresy and as such has absolutely nothing to do with Biblical Christianity. If your faith does not produce works of righteousness then it is dead faith and you are not saved. It is a simple as that but no one seems to be proclaiming this from the pulpits any more? It's alll 'sola fide!' 'sola fide!' 'sola fide!'

Repentence is not a one off occurance as a part of one's initiation into the Christian faith but rather an ongoing process of constantly re-calibrating one's life in order to conform one's self (to be conformed) to the image of the Messiah.

The truth is that salvation is a team effort between God, the individual believer and the Church. Salvation has a corporate dimension to it as well as a personal dimension (current popular Evangelicalism also seems to encourage a lot of rampant individualism). It is not about us sitting back on our haunches and expecting God to do it all. The only time that we are allowed to sit back and 'let God' is when we have done all that God has asked of us and a miracle is required before we can proceed any further...as was the case with the Isrealites when they were trapped between Pharoah's armies and the Red Sea...then Moses commanded the Israelites to 'stand still and see the salvation of your God!'

Simonline.

 

[mannysee]

Simonline, getting back to my definition of repentance (the subject of this thread) you will notice that i did say that repentance is 'turning away' and not just a change of mind.

 

[HotRhymez]

I've been wondering the same thing, too. I am not sure if I have really repented or not cuz I do enjoy sin sometimes but not all the time..but I still believe and I try to do good works whenever I can but still I mess up. Repentance doesn't mean that you won't sin ever again, right?