What exactly is a God experience?

[andreha]

Congratulations. Amazing birth date for her and the circumstance is intriguing. She is a cute one and bet she has you wrapped around her tiny finger. Enjoy her. They grow up quickly. I didn't get a chance for a daughter. I have three sons. I won't have to fight off boyfriends. lol

She does indeed grow up fast - she's 6 months old, and already weighing 20 pounds. She's a picture of good health.

 

[razeontherock]

I am curious if you are messianic. The way you type God is pretty common for people who follow that path.

As far as Torah observance, no I don't do that so I couldn't be called a Messianic Jew. I will say G-d has Blessed me with abundant understanding of the Old Testament, or rather I should say He took me to task for asking so many questions and riddled me with more than I could take in in 20 years but I never spelled G-d like that in all that time. Only when I came here and wound up writing about Him so much, have I found the need to write it that way to keep me humbly aware of how much I don't know, and cautious about what i connect Him to. It's not perfect and neither am I, but I have found it to help.

And thank you. Everyone here seems to be very kind and helpful and not at all what I am used to. It is appreciated.

You are a joy! Agreement or disagreement is not so much the issue, but the ability to hear one another and appreciate one another's perspective can bring great benefit.

This place seems to be organized just right to keep the naughty ones at bay.

Glad you find it to be working! We'd all like to be sheltered from problems, and they do arise on CF. I say that just so you won't be too let down if you do witness such an imperfection. Just take those in stride, and you can develop some beneficial relationships with very interesting people here.

 

[Mud Hole]

OK - this is going right back to the beginning....

When I was in primary school I had a really bad time with bullies at my Catholic school. Sometimes I would slip into the church on the school grounds and there I would experience peace that I never got at school or at home (my parents had a very unhappy marriage). I felt comforted there - kind of felt God's actual presence that was nothing like I felt anywhere else - and that helped develop a further interest in the Catholic faith. I always had teachers who were strong in their faith as well and they were the most supportive towards me.

Come to think of it, every genuine christian I have known have been the nicest people ever. Except for my husband who is an atheist but that is another story.

---


From what you are saying it sounds like the Bible was used as an instrument of abuse from a very unstable mother!!! God is nothing like that. I am so sorry that you had to go through what you have.

The feeling of peace and comfort you had in the chapel, is that describable? Most people seem to have a hard time equating physical descriptions to emotional feelings.

Husband is an atheist? So you are a 1 Cor 7:13 kind of girl? lol All joking aside, I am glad you have at least one good experience with an atheist. We are more bark than bite.

As far as my mother is concerned, you take the good with the bad. If you can turn something bad into something good then you have done what most people choose not to do. While I could look at it as nothing but bad, I choose to look at it with more of a positive twist. She taught me valuable study lessons and the memorization techniques helped me in school. I have let the issues I had with it growing up, go. No sense in harboring that. Do I still think she is looney? You betcha! Am I brave enough to say that to her face? Not a chance! lol

 

[razeontherock]

Retention and full understanding are two different things. I also understand what false prophets are and that they are amongst those who are not, making them all the more shady and undetectable.

This is a very interesting statement! I'd like to see you expound on this, spelling out your understanding.

 

[joey_downunder]

The feeling of peace and comfort you had in the chapel, is that describable? Most people seem to have a hard time equating physical descriptions to emotional feelings.

Imagine going from feelings of real turbulence and misery to feeling getting the affects of a real hug from someone who loves you but without the actual arms around you. It was very precious to me. I didn't often feel loved.

Husband is an atheist? So you are a 1 Cor 7:13 kind of girl? lol All joking aside, I am glad you have at least one good experience with an atheist. We are more bark than bite.

Yes I met him after I backslid and after a particularly abusive relationship with a so-called christian (knew enough christian lingo to fool a very naive girl). I have often said to other christian women that the only thing I would change was for him to become christian. He is stable and strong in every area I am not. God sent me that atheist.

If you can turn something bad into something good then you have done what most people choose not to do. While I could look at it as nothing but bad, I choose to look at it with more of a positive twist.

Yes I have tried to do the same. I am a mother hen to anyone who is hurting and from difficult family backgrounds. That can be a good and a bad thing. I also have a very soft spot for foreigners and/or newcomers to groups- I have moved around Australia so much I understand how hard it is to fit in somewhere new.

She taught me valuable study lessons and the memorization techniques helped me in school. I have let the issues I had with it growing up, go. No sense in harboring that. Do I still think she is looney? You betcha! Am I brave enough to say that to her face? Not a chance! lol.

Well they do say there is a fine line between genius and insanity.... it sounds like you've managed the whole situation just fine and you're a lot saner than many of us "artistic types".

 

[Mud Hole]

As far as Torah observance, no I don't do that so I couldn't be called a Messianic Jew. I will say G-d has Blessed me with abundant understanding of the Old Testament, or rather I should say He took me to task for asking so many questions and riddled me with more than I could take in in 20 years but I never spelled G-d like that in all that time. Only when I came here and wound up writing about Him so much, have I found the need to write it that way to keep me humbly aware of how much I don't know, and cautious about what i connect Him to. It's not perfect and neither am I, but I have found it to help.

That makes sense to me.

You are a joy! Agreement or disagreement is not so much the issue, but the ability to hear one another and appreciate one another's perspective can bring great benefit.

Anyone can disagree without being a camel's behind. It doesn't take much effort to consider someone else before you post. It is harder to control the words that come from your mouth, which can't be unspoken, than the words typed on a screen which have multiple options for editing both before and after posting. If you can control yourself when you are face to face then what added ability should you possess in text? I have little respect for scoffers and trolls. I pay them no mind, but I have been known to put them in their place after I have seen about enough of it. Many are too stuck on themselves to consider the view of another. They believe it shows weakness in their position. But should one not consider a weakness in their position? Only a reasonable person would say YES! If my position is weak, I intend to consider that.

Glad you find it to be working! We'd all like to be sheltered from problems, and they do arise on CF. I say that just so you won't be too let down if you do witness such an imperfection. Just take those in stride, and you can develop some beneficial relationships with very interesting people here.

Being sheltered from problems is not as much of an issue as having some order. The rules here, the way they are set up, promotes reasonable discussion without sidebars full of dissention and name calling which distracts from the discussion. So far, so good. You all seem to be quite interesting and reasonable. I am sure that will not be the extent of my experiences here (lol) but I am very laid back and non aggressive. Moderators will most likely never know I even exist.

 

[Mud Hole]

This is a very interesting statement! I'd like to see you expound on this, spelling out your understanding.

You may need to be a little more specific. Are you wanting me to expound on an understanding of the bible or of false prophets, and exactly what point of it should I be expounding on? It is a very deep topic that would need a bit of direction to hit what you are wanting to know.

 

[Mud Hole]

Imagine going from feelings of real turbulence and misery to feeling getting the affects of a real hug from someone who loves you but without the actual arms around you. It was very precious to me. I didn't often feel loved.



Yes I met him after I backslid and after a particularly abusive relationship with a so-called christian (knew enough christian lingo to fool a very naive girl). I have often said to other christian women that the only thing I would change was for him to become christian. He is stable and strong in every area I am not. God sent me that atheist.


Yes I have tried to do the same. I am a mother hen to anyone who is hurting and from difficult family backgrounds. That can be a good and a bad thing. I also have a very soft spot for foreigners and/or newcomers to groups- I have moved around Australia so much I understand how hard it is to fit in somewhere new.


Well they do say there is a fine line between genius and insanity.... it sounds like you've managed the whole situation just fine and you're a lot saner than many of us "artistic types".

You sound like a very giving person. I would warn you to protect your heart, because giving only works when there is supply to be given. Remember to refill your supply for yourself.

 

[aiki]

I can respect that!

I don't think I was resisting anything but you have to understand that I was 10 years old before anything about God was ever presented to me. Christmas was about santa claus and Easter was about bunnies and eggs. I was religiously ignorant.

Hey, I was raised in the Christian faith and at ten years old I too thought Christmas was about Santa Claus and Easter about bunnies and eggs! I heard all the stories about Christ's birth and death but they didn't compel my attention like the presents at Christmas and the chocolate at Easter did.

When my mother converted overnight it was very traumatic and I thought everyone had lost their minds. It sounded like some television show.

I see...

I was an atheist from the first day I knew what God was supposed to be because it sounded insane, not to sound disrespectful of course, but I don't know any other way to explain it.

No offense taken. I've become used to atheists holding this perspective on my worldview.

Maybe it works better on younger kids but it sure did not work on me. What is that popular saying? Going to church doesn't make you any more of a Christian than standing in your garage makes you a car? lol That applies here.

I think it applies to many so-called Christians, too.

You had mentioned my disorder. I was explaining that for me to assume that this situation IS a tugging at me by God, as you said, and not an effect of my disorder then I would also have to assume that God is tugging at me by making me feel forced to do all of the other things that my disorder causes me to do.

Forgive me, but I still don't understand how God tugging at your heart and prompting an interest in Him is exactly the same as the compulsion to unplug all your appliances before you can fall asleep. The latter instance is about feeling secure about your environment, the former about curiosity regarding your Maker. These don't appear to be the same sort of thing at all to me...Does every inner prompting you experience have to be an effect of your OCD? If not, how do you decide which is and which isn't?

I was just giving you an example of some of the things that it causes, so you could see that it doesn't really make sense for me to assume God is causing either one.

Oh, I don't know about that...It seems a pretty easy out just to assign your mild interest in God to the effect of OCD. I suppose, though, since you believe God does not exist, you have little choice but to do so.

The topic being religion is just a new one for me. I have never had much interest in religion before.

I understand.

My time in college only confirmed my atheism for me. Science on the college level was very different from what we receive in high school and it made it much more convincing to me that we were most likely not put here by a god, or at least not one of any of the Abrahamic religions.

Yes, the university culture is definitely opposed to anything that isn't ultimately naturalistic in its outlook. I am not surprised at all to hear you felt confirmed in your atheism; I would expect nothing else from a secular educational institution.

Many people here complain that college creates atheists. It isn't college. It is information that you happen to get there.

At least where I attended university there was a very distinct antagonism to things Christian. It wasn't merely a matter of information but the way in which it was presented and the careful avoidance by all the professors of any information contrary to a relativistic/naturalistic worldview. My wife works at another university and she finds this to be the case there as well.

Selah.

 

[elman]

Interesting. Thank you. Glad you found some comfort in that stressful situation.

I have been in a lot of hospitals over my seventy years. That was the only time I ever heard a nurse belting out a hymn. Did you ever experience that happening? I understand this is not proof of anything divine or spiritual. I did not believe in God being active in this life for the first twenty five years of my life. However there came a point when my experience was so coincidental that I began thinging of the other coincidences I had experienced in my life. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that it was more reasonable to believe there was something else involved here than coincidence. Now that I can look back on seventy years of these coincidences--I find it completely unreasonable to assume they are just coincidences.

 

[Mud Hole]

Hey, I was raised in the Christian faith and at ten years old I too thought Christmas was about Santa Claus and Easter about bunnies and eggs! I heard all the stories about Christ's birth and death but they didn't compel my attention like the presents at Christmas and the chocolate at Easter did.

But you had an understanding of God at a younger age. I believe that made this easier to grasp. I don't know if being raised with this information, if you can see how it appears from an outsider's perspective where at an age of basic reason, it made little to no sense. Immaculate conception? WHAT? I had just had the talk by my mother, and prior to his death, my father, about the nature of reproduction. I already had an understanding prior to being told a woman could be magically impregnated. Then being told somebody walked on water, then angels, demons, being raised from the dead. It was all science fiction sounding. All I could do is stare at these people with shock when they showed concern that I must not be a very bright young man because I just didn't get it. And then we went from learning about Jesus to the old testament and boy was that a rude awakening. It amost seemed like to seperate planets. Being ten and learning about God was not easy nor was it enjoyable.

I see...

I really hate when you say this. I can't figure out what it is supposed to mean. Is it derrogatory?

No offense taken. I've become used to atheists holding this perspective on my worldview.

Well I apologize. I always try to be the atypical atheist. I believe I failed at it this time. I just couldn't be more creative to try to find some common understanding.

I think it applies to many so-called Christians, too.

Yes, I would agree. I was just using it to make a point.

Forgive me, but I still don't understand how God tugging at your heart and prompting an interest in Him is exactly the same as the compulsion to unplug all your appliances before you can fall asleep. The latter instance is about feeling secure about your environment, the former about curiosity regarding your Maker. These don't appear to be the same sort of thing at all to me...Does every inner prompting you experience have to be an effect of your OCD? If not, how do you decide which is and which isn't?

LOL I was afraid you still wouldn't understand. I chose this particular act because it is the least embarassing and actually has some purpose behind it. I could very well tell you that I have to hire a CPA because I can't keep my own books for my business because I would never finish calculating at the end of the day. Only even whole numbers are right and all odd, fractions, and decimals are mostly wrong. There are even rules inside of these to make some of them more or less wrong. This means I can never get an answer to a mathematical problem whose real answer does not lie in these boundries. THIS act has NO purpose. Does that mean God gave me this as some sort of divine sign? The number 1 or 3 isn't really of importance to God,But that 40, 12, 6,4 and on seem to be significant? I am just throwing out some numbers in the bible. Just because you can find another reason for why my obsessions or compulsions manifest doesn't mean one way or the other that God did it, in my opinion. The only reason I am curious now is because of the topic. All of the things surrounding the topic are identical. The topic itself is the ONLY new thing to consider. But it could have just as well been aboriculture. I have never had that topic become an obsession or compulsion before either. I don't know how to explain it any better. I can't assume either way. I am just saying that I am open to an alternate explanation should it fit the scenario well enough.

Oh, I don't know about that...It seems a pretty easy out just to assign your mild interest in God to the effect of OCD. I suppose, though, since you believe God does not exist, you have little choice but to do so.

Yes maybe it is easy. They share all of the same signs. If this is the case. I have no way to determine the difference because I am unaware of what any calling from God would be like. Which was kind of the point of the OP.

Yes, the university culture is definitely opposed to anything that isn't ultimately naturalistic in its outlook. I am not surprised at all to hear you felt confirmed in your atheism; I would expect nothing else from a secular educational institution.

I was always fascinated at the thought of a biblical institution. How do they function? Religion is so subjective that I don't see how they could operate to teach anything.

At least where I attended university there was a very distinct antagonism to things Christian. It wasn't merely a matter of information but the way in which it was presented and the careful avoidance by all the professors of any information contrary to a relativistic/naturalistic worldview. My wife works at another university and she finds this to be the case there as well.

It may depend on your major as well. It was only the information available to me that confirmed my opinion. It wasn't the professors or how they shared the information. If one thing makes sense and another doesn't, how else will you decide?

 

[Mud Hole]

I have been in a lot of hospitals over my seventy years. That was the only time I ever heard a nurse belting out a hymn. Did you ever experience that happening? I understand this is not proof of anything divine or spiritual. I did not believe in God being active in this life for the first twenty five years of my life. However there came a point when my experience was so coincidental that I began thinging of the other coincidences I had experienced in my life. The more I thought about it, the more I realized that it was more reasonable to believe there was something else involved here than coincidence. Now that I can look back on seventy years of these coincidences--I find it completely unreasonable to assume they are just coincidences.

No, I have never had an identical experience in a hospital. I have seen many people praying, chaplains, and people reading bibles to loved ones. This is all something I saw as part of the dying or healing process that gave these people comfort. I didn't consider it anything spectacular to myself. Maybe I am more of one of those get in my face kind of guys. If it doesn't slap me in the face then maybe it gets overlooked. That or I am just harder to convince. Coincidences have seemed to be very minimal in my life. Maybe some have passed that I didn't pay attention to or my view is too black and white. I do agree that based on your particular experiences and understanding of the coincidences that you have had, it would be reasonable for you to come to that conclusion.

 

[aiki]

But you had an understanding of God at a younger age. I believe that made this easier to grasp. I don't know if being raised with this information, if you can see how it appears from an outsider's perspective where at an age of basic reason, it made little to no sense.

I had a childish understanding of God when I was ten; certainly nothing that would have withstood the questions and criticisms of my faith that I have encountered as an adult. As a child I was far more credulous and willing to accept what the Bible revealed of God and His involvement in human history. I had no problem believing a supernatural Creator could do and did the supernatural things the Bible relates. Even now this makes a certain basic sense.

Immaculate conception? WHAT? I had just had the talk by my mother, and prior to his death, my father, about the nature of reproduction. I already had an understanding prior to being told a woman could be magically impregnated.

LOL! Well, you had an understanding of how humans procreate; but God isn't human, is He? It seems to me an odd thing to expect Him to function exactly as we do. The miraculous, supernatural birth of Christ seems quite in keeping with his supernatural, divine origin. I think that now and I thought that when I was a child.

Then being told somebody walked on water, then angels, demons, being raised from the dead. It was all science fiction sounding.

Yup, its pretty incredible stuff! But, as I said, I would expect nothing less from the Word of God. Seeing the world from God's infinite, incorporeal, omnipotent perspective is going to be naturally jarring to my own mundane, finite perspective.

All I could do is stare at these people with shock when they showed concern that I must not be a very bright young man because I just didn't get it. And then we went from learning about Jesus to the old testament and boy was that a rude awakening. It amost seemed like to seperate planets. Being ten and learning about God was not easy nor was it enjoyable.

It doesn't sound like it! Its too bad this was how things sat with you. But, your story isn't finished yet. Who knows what God will do with you?

I really hate when you say this. I can't figure out what it is supposed to mean. Is it derrogatory?

Absolutely not! My apologies for giving you that impression!

Well I apologize. I always try to be the atypical atheist. I believe I failed at it this time. I just couldn't be more creative to try to find some common understanding.

Really, there is no need to apologize. You have been in many respects pleasantly atypical as an atheist.

LOL I was afraid you still wouldn't understand. I chose this particular act because it is the least embarassing and actually has some purpose behind it. I could very well tell you that I have to hire a CPA because I can't keep my own books for my business because I would never finish calculating at the end of the day. Only even whole numbers are right and all odd, fractions, and decimals are mostly wrong. There are even rules inside of these to make some of them more or less wrong. This means I can never get an answer to a mathematical problem whose real answer does not lie in these boundries. THIS act has NO purpose. Does that mean God gave me this as some sort of divine sign?

Why would something you think has no purpose be a divine sign?

The number 1 or 3 isn't really of importance to God,But that 40, 12, 6,4 and on seem to be significant? I am just throwing out some numbers in the bible. Just because you can find another reason for why my obsessions or compulsions manifest doesn't mean one way or the other that God did it, in my opinion.

Yes, I agree, but I don't think I've suggested that your OCD, or anything emanating from it, is from God. Am I reading you right, here?

I have no way to determine the difference because I am unaware of what any calling from God would be like. Which was kind of the point of the OP.

Actually, it seems to me that you have made yourself blind to God both by your atheism and by thinking your OCD is the primary source of your internal impulses and interests. Even if you were having a genuine calling from God, you have already decided such a thing is impossible and must simply be the product of your OCD. How, then, can you discern a calling from God when it is there? It doesn't seem to me that you can't discern God's call because it is vague and easily confused with other feelings, but because you have decided, a priori, that a call from God is impossible.

You know, though, God has a way of breaking through all the carefully erected shields we secure around ourselves. It truly does take an act of God to penetrate all the willful blindness and binding behaviours that bar us from interacting with Him. When God becomes the "Hound of Heaven" with you, you will know it. All the excuses, and deflections, and arguments we put up to justify rejecting our Creator crumble and fall away under His supernatural and inexorable revelation of Himself to us. But if He doesn't show you His light, you will never see it - even though we jump up and down, and point at it, and cry out that it is there. If God doesn't illuminate your thinking, all our descriptions and explanations of what we feel when we interact with Him will be meaningless to you. In the end, when God calls you, you will simply know it. You may try to shrug off His call at first, but God is wonderfully persistent, and gentle, and one day you will be unable to ignore Him any longer. And you won't need someone to tell you what you are feeling; you will know God has touched you.

I was always fascinated at the thought of a biblical institution. How do they function? Religion is so subjective that I don't see how they could operate to teach anything.

LOL! Religion is subjective? No more than any worldview is - including an atheistic one. The truth is that the Christian faith has both objective and subjective elements in it.

What exactly do you mean by a "biblical institution?" And why do you think it would be so subjective that nothing could be taught in it?

Selah.

 

[Mud Hole]

I had a childish understanding of God when I was ten; certainly nothing that would have withstood the questions and criticisms of my faith that I have encountered as an adult. As a child I was far more credulous and willing to accept what the Bible revealed of God and His involvement in human history. I had no problem believing a supernatural Creator could do and did the supernatural things the Bible relates. Even now this makes a certain basic sense.

Well, what I was getting at is that it is obviously easier for younger children who are exposed to a god that is invisible and all powerful and unknowable to relate at an older age with a better understanding. I went from there is no such thing as God,because it was never mentioned, to there is a God and all of these other things come with him. It was unsettling. It still is a little. You want to hear something funny? Well it wasn't funny back then, but my first day at my mother's new church there was a special type of youth group that had its own pastor. I was already a little uncomfortable because we were all sitting in a circle of chairs staring at eachother and then when I get introduced as being new the youth pastor asks me if I know Jesus and I was so ignorant at this time that I said "I don't think so. What is his last name?" Everyone's jaws dropped and their eyes got big and I just then realized that I made some very critical error and I almost swallowed my tongue. The rest of that next hour was a total blurr. All I could feel was the blood pooling in my face. If they were talking to me at all it went completely unnoticed. While the youth pastor talked to me about it privately later, it was too late. This is where assuming that everyone has heard of Jesus and understands God proves to be false. Well shame on me for caring about skateboards and mini motor bikes. lol

It doesn't sound like it! Its too bad this was how things sat with you. But, your story isn't finished yet. Who knows what God will do with you?

lol. I am not sure what to do with this one.

Absolutely not! My apologies for giving you that impression!

No problem. I just couldn't figure it out. Usually that is someone's way of being derrogatory.

Really, there is no need to apologize. You have been in many respects pleasantly atypical as an atheist.

Thank you. Sometimes I struggle trying not to offend others. It is hard because we may not share the same concept of what is offensive.

Why would something you think has no purpose be a divine sign?

It may not be. But being interested in religion seems to have no purpose to me as well. And you believe that could or is some kind of divine sign. No?

Yes, I agree, but I don't think I've suggested that your OCD, or anything emanating from it, is from God. Am I reading you right, here?

No. I think we are confusing eachother.

Actually, it seems to me that you have made yourself blind to God both by your atheism and by thinking your OCD is the primary source of your internal impulses and interests. Even if you were having a genuine calling from God, you have already decided such a thing is impossible and must simply be the product of your OCD. How, then, can you discern a calling from God when it is there? It doesn't seem to me that you can't discern God's call because it is vague and easily confused with other feelings, but because you have decided, a priori, that a call from God is impossible.

= Armenian? I don't believe that my atheism is a choice. If I tried to make myself believe in God with what I have to work with now, it would only be a lie.

You know, though, God has a way of breaking through all the carefully erected shields we secure around ourselves. It truly does take an act of God to penetrate all the willful blindness and binding behaviours that bar us from interacting with Him. When God becomes the "Hound of Heaven" with you, you will know it. All the excuses, and deflections, and arguments we put up to justify rejecting our Creator crumble and fall away under His supernatural and inexorable revelation of Himself to us. But if He doesn't show you His light, you will never see it - even though we jump up and down, and point at it, and cry out that it is there. If God doesn't illuminate your thinking, all our descriptions and explanations of what we feel when we interact with Him will be meaningless to you. In the end, when God calls you, you will simply know it. You may try to shrug off His call at first, but God is wonderfully persistent, and gentle, and one day you will be unable to ignore Him any longer. And you won't need someone to tell you what you are feeling; you will know God has touched you.

= Calvinist? I am confused on how to respond to you because I can't decipher whether you follow arminianism or calvinism. Baptist includes both types. Could you give me an idea of which way you are swaying here? That way I know which route I need to take with this.

LOL! Religion is subjective? No more than any worldview is - including an atheistic one. The truth is that the Christian faith has both objective and subjective elements in it.

ok. I can go with this.

What exactly do you mean by a "biblical institution?" And why do you think it would be so subjective that nothing could be taught in it?

Bible college. I wonder how opinion that nobody can prove can be taught in any organized manner. It seems like it would be very hard to keep everyone straight. Keep in mind that I have never attended one.

Selah.

 

[joey_downunder]

A comment on your attempt to link OCD with a slight interest in faith/religious experiences and therefore dismiss it via neuropsychiatric scientism:

I did exactly the same thing. I have/had (since surgery nearly gone completely) epilepsy since my teens. Mine was a type that some neuropsychologists have linked to "hypereligiousity" or an excessive interest in religion. That is an area that both sides of the argument are convinced they are right.

I had a very severe bout of doubt that lasted for years after I had the surgery because I felt so differently about so many things - including religion. My poorly controlled partial seizures had affected my moods very badly and the medicines I still need despite the surgery made things worse.

So there was me saying "when I had faith experiences it was just epilepsy" conveniently forgetting it was well before I was diagnosed that I started feeling God with me. Then when my moods were super low and I asked God for help to cope and then they improved for a long time - "it is just a psychological crutch and therefore not valid".

A problem though.... too much just kept *happening* for it to be a coincidence. I was a genuine doubter, I wasn't ever a tester of God or Antitheist like Richard Dawkins. God was very merciful and so when I was ready everything happened as I said in the first entry.

And so what if you need help with an accountant? Your problem is so much more interesting than a mere difficulty in putting 2+2 together like other "mathematically challenged" people have. Even brilliant people are thick in their own way! My Dad would have been the most perfect computer geek but he was so impractical with everyday stuff it was embarressing.

 

[Mud Hole]

A comment on your attempt to link OCD with a slight interest in faith/religious experiences and therefore dismiss it via neuropsychiatric scientism:

I did exactly the same thing. I have/had (since surgery nearly gone completely) epilepsy since my teens. Mine was a type that some neuropsychologists have linked to "hypereligiousity" or an excessive interest in religion. That is an area that both sides of the argument are convinced they are right.

I had a very severe bout of doubt that lasted for years after I had the surgery because I felt so differently about so many things - including religion. My poorly controlled partial seizures had affected my moods very badly and the medicines I still need despite the surgery made things worse.

So there was me saying "when I had faith experiences it was just epilepsy" conveniently forgetting it was well before I was diagnosed that I started feeling God with me. Then when my moods were super low and I asked God for help to cope and then they improved for a long time - "it is just a psychological crutch and therefore not valid".

A problem though.... too much just kept *happening* for it to be a coincidence. I was a genuine doubter, I wasn't ever a tester of God or Antitheist like Richard Dawkins. God was very merciful and so when I was ready everything happened as I said in the first entry.

And so what if you need help with an accountant? Your problem is so much more interesting than a mere difficulty in putting 2+2 together like other "mathematically challenged" people have. Even brilliant people are thick in their own way! My Dad would have been the most perfect computer geek but he was so impractical with everyday stuff it was embarressing.

That is rough. I have never had a seizure so I can't imagine what that must be like.

I question everything. It seems to be the only way to fell good about your conclusion. I try not to assume something either way. But when things happen that are similiar to something else, it is much easier to dismiss it.

lol. My problem is as interesting to me as your seizures are to you. If they stopped tomorrow, it would be wonderful right? I can do math. That isn't the problem. I just can't accept the answers as correct if they don't meet my guidelines.

 

[razeontherock]

I also question everything, so much so that I exasperated my parents. The first great question I had about Scripture was when I was 4 years old, sitting in a Sunday School class of 2 - 6 graders, because my Mom was teaching it and that was the best arrangement we could make that morning. If anybody else had asked that question they would've been kicked out, and Mom was very upset that it was a reasonable question, that neither she nor the other teacher could answer. My respect for Mom went WAY up, when she admitted that between the two of them they could not come up with a solid answer. This took a bit of class discussion, which was of course far more educational than the lesson plan Mom had prepared with her helper.

I finally got the answer to my question last Summer, 41 years later. Straight from G-d, founded in Scriptures. And it was thrilling! (And a very profound message, obviously)

Reading your posts, it seems VERY likely to me that G-d is working in your life, but He has not shown me one way or the other.

 

[Mud Hole]

I also question everything, so much so that I exasperated my parents. The first great question I had about Scripture was when I was 4 years old, sitting in a Sunday School class of 2 - 6 graders, because my Mom was teaching it and that was the best arrangement we could make that morning. If anybody else had asked that question they would've been kicked out, and Mom was very upset that it was a reasonable question, that neither she nor the other teacher could answer. My respect for Mom went WAY up, when she admitted that between the two of them they could not come up with a solid answer. This took a bit of class discussion, which was of course far more educational than the lesson plan Mom had prepared with her helper.

I finally got the answer to my question last Summer, 41 years later. Straight from G-d, founded in Scriptures. And it was thrilling! (And a very profound message, obviously)

Reading your posts, it seems VERY likely to me that G-d is working in your life, but He has not shown me one way or the other.

Ok. I must know.....what was the question?

And did you want to continue this...?

Originally Posted by razeontherock

This is a very interesting statement! I'd like to see you expound on this, spelling out your understanding.
​

You may need to be a little more specific. Are you wanting me to expound on an understanding of the bible or of false prophets, and exactly what point of it should I be expounding on? It is a very deep topic that would need a bit of direction to hit what you are wanting to know.

 

[Jarnold4108]

I had been an atheist up until this past weekend.. I pretty much closed my eyes and prayed for Jesus to come into my heart as I knew I was missing something in life.. I can honestly say that I saw Jesus standing in front of me.. We were in a cloudy area (might be heaven, I don't know) and I asked him to forgive my sins.. Suddenly, that vision ended and everything was back to the way it was.. However, I felt something inside.. It's not something you can explain to others, but I knew that it was Jesus in my heart.. My attitude changed immediately and I was more compassionate and caring about everything.. I appreciated the wonder and beauty of this world, our nature.. I then read Scripture and felt even more good.. Just a short testimony!

Just wanted to say that I love this!

 

[joey_downunder]

That is rough. I have never had a seizure so I can't imagine what that must be like.

I question everything. It seems to be the only way to fell good about your conclusion. I try not to assume something either way. But when things happen that are similiar to something else, it is much easier to dismiss it.

lol. My problem is as interesting to me as your seizures are to you. If they stopped tomorrow, it would be wonderful right? I can do math. That isn't the problem. I just can't accept the answers as correct if they don't meet my guidelines.

I'm pretty well cured. The medicine controls the last bit of whoozy thoughts and dizziness that only ever happens once every other month and usually from overtiredness.

I am sure there is plenty you don't question.... do you question whether you are male or not? Do you question whether your family loves you? Do you worry if the sun will come up in the morning?