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Featured What errors do you think exist within the KJV?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jason0047, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. kenneth558

    kenneth558 Believer in the Invisible

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    I trust any particular translation on a word-by-word basis. I feel KJV is least likely of commonly available hardcopy English versions to deviate from what God said originally. That is my first choice, and I'll even go so far as to allow for the KJV or other Spirit-led translations to enhance from the original in ways that God could decide to honor if He wants to. I would also encourage you to be open to other English translations of the King James period to sometimes choose the more accurate words than KJV.

    That said...

    Another verse where I deviate from KJV into a more understandable, and I strongly feel more accurate, rendering is James 5:16. Instead of "effectual fervent" of the KJV, I believe the best rendering is "energetic", based on the SINGLE Greek word used there: "...the energetic prayer of a righteous man availeth much". I have found NO translation using that term. The consequences are that we miss making our prayers more effective because we don't put energy into them. I used the term "marriage-busting" in my first example. This example is no less, and arguably more, serious.

    Another verse, "same but opposite" issue, is Luke 16:2-4. The word "stewardship" (οἰκονομίας or oikonomia) here is translated "dispensation" elsewhere in KJV. Actually, I wholeheartedly agree with the rendering "stewardship" in this verse but believe KJV should have stayed with using that word in the other occurrences. Several other English translations do stay with "stewardship" consistently. The consequences of the inconsistency are that "dispensational" thinking (where we assume or even hope that offensive-to-us teachings are time- or culture-limited and have become obsolete) is directly opposed to the declaration of Moses that "those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever", that concept being witnessed to in many ways throughout the Bible. This example of KJV inconsistency is serious here, too, given a number of leaven-reducing teachings in I Corinthians not being respected these days.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  2. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Agent for Christ Supporter

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    While I use Modern Translations to help update the 1600's English in the KJV on occasion, I do not make them my final word of authority because they say things that are crazy and corrupt. Some Modern Translations put the devil's name in them in place of God's name or something holy. They water and eliminate important doctrines and truths. Romans 8:1, 1 John 5:7, 2 Timothy 2:15 are just a few of the many examples.

    When somebody is fervent they are passionate. They are intense in what they are doing.

    Fervent | Definition of Fervent by Webster's Online Dictionary

    That is the same as being energetic in my book. So I really do not see the difference.

    You mean, that wives should fear their husbands?
    Should we scream at our wives to fix the towels?
    For me, a strong marriage is built on love and respect with the Lord being the glue or center of that relationship.

    Paul is speaking about the dispensing of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 9:17. This is not in conflict with the context. In verse 16, Paul says, "though I preach the gospel" This is the dispensing of the gospel. Preaching. That is what he was doing. Not a contradiction or unclear statement unless you are looking to find one.
     
  3. kenneth558

    kenneth558 Believer in the Invisible

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    Agreed, but let me ask you: Do you hold the KJV to be a rewrite of the Bible or a translation? I am of the latter persuasion, so that is why I hold the original languages to be more sure...as in II Peter 1:19.


    Well now, looky there. First you say not really a difference, then you imply a really big difference, then you say not really a difference. Wow! The three word pairs we're talking about possess the same level of difference as I see them, and I'd say the KJV translators would agree with that since they translated the word for fear dozens of times in their work and figured close is fine.

    Your questions about how husbands should treat their wives are answered in the Bible just like any questions about how wives should treat their husbands.

    The dispensation thing is not so much a contradiction as it is an unfortunate platform to misunderstand the term. Yes, dispensation is a dispensing of something (an assignment, if you will) and NOT a time period or epoc.

    I've enjoyed the postings after a long absence. If I continue putting time in this discussion though, I'll be irresponsible about some duties I need to tend to. I'll really have to leave off the forum for a while.

    Lord bless!
     
  4. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Agent for Christ Supporter

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    I would not go by either choice. While the KJV is a translation, it is also more than a translation alone. It is God's Word for today. It is a preservation of the Holy Scriptures. It is divine in origin like it's predecessors (i.e. Latin, Greek, and Hebrew).

    The problem is that we really do not know what the original languages say. We did not grow up speaking Biblical Hebrew and Greek. Men who made Hebrew and Greek dictionaries are only guessing as to what these languages are saying. They are not speaking from experience. Also, if a Hebrew or Greek teacher tells his students what a certain word means, they have to take it entirely based on faith in what he is saying. They cannot check it like English (Which is a language that they are familar with or that they can learn to speak).

    You are mixing together what I said. I was talking about how there is not a difference involving the word "fervent" in regards to the KJV. I was not talking about the tons of changes in Modern Translations that are corrupt. You were attacking the KJV, so I was defending it.

    So a wife is not to fear their husband, right?

    I am not arguing that the KJV is written in 1600's English (Which can be difficult to understand sometimes). But just because something is difficult to understand at times does not mean it is a problem. Remember, Jesus spoke in parables.

    I understand. Sometimes I do not get back to a post until a day or so later because I am busy at times, as well.

    Thank you. May the Lord God bless you even more.
     
  5. John Robie

    John Robie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes. That would be Christ. If you are looking to the material rewards, you’re focus is on the wrong thing.
     
  6. John Robie

    John Robie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your outward actions may not be those of worship. But you are exalting a book to near the same level as God Himself. So I have no problem with exaltating the Word. But exalting a modern translation goes too far.
     
  7. John Robie

    John Robie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The KJV is a modern translation.
     
  8. John Robie

    John Robie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is it possible that the KJV was using autographs that added to the text, and that there are many older texts that do not include the extra writings?

    We know that as more older texts are found, we get a more accurate translation.
     
  9. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Agent for Christ Supporter

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    Not at all. I prefer Christ alone as my reward but I know He will reward me with things. Hebrews 11:6 stresses the importance of believing God is a rewarder to those who diligently seek Him. Again. Scripture plainly says you will be rewarded hundred fold if you gave up houses, family, etc. (Matthew 19:29). I choose to believe Scripture and not you.
     
  10. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Agent for Christ Supporter

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    The problem is that the Modern Translations add the devil's name in place of God and in another instance with one of God's people. The watering down of doctrine and certain truths is obvious that they are corrupted. To make matters worse, the guys who written their Greek text (Upon which most all Modern Translations are formed) rests upon the Critical Text formed by occultists Westcott and Hort. So 3 whammies or strikes against the Modern Translations that are not good. But you are free to believe whatever you like.

    For me, I use Romans 8:1 to defend against Eternal Security Proponents. I use 1 John 5:7 against Arians. I use 2 Timothy 2:15 against Liberal Christians who do not have a low regard for Scriptural authority or in what it says.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  11. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Agent for Christ Supporter

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    Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. We have faith in God because of God's Word. We have authority of what we believe because of the Bible. No Bible and no faith. No Bible and no authority. No Bible and there is no Godly righteousness. No Bible and no hearing of the gospel.

    As for your false ad homninem:
    First, nowhere did I say that God is the Bible or that the Bible is above God. The Word of God comes from God. The Word of God breathes in harmony with the Lord. We worship God in spirit and truth but this is only possible if we know the truths of the Bible. You cannot worship God in full spirit in truth without the Bible. Scripture says God glorifies His Word above His name, but this is because God places a high importance on His Word. God wants us to obey Him and not to just say.... "Lord, Lord."

    We are also told to preach the Word, too. So I have a high regard for Scripture. Do I bow down to the Bible and think it has magical powers? No. But the Bible is God's holy instructions for us. If we seek to do our own thing we are not having faith in God's Word. Also, just because something is holy does not mean we worship it, either. The Ark was holy but God did not desire us to worship it. The ground Moses stood on was holy but again, God did not desire Moses to worship it. So while the Bible itself may be Holy, it does not mean we believers worship the Bible. It merely is a means to have faith in God the way God desires us to have faith; And not all Bibles (or faiths) say the same thing. There is only one Word of God or one faith.

    In fact, the Bible is called the "Holy Bible" and not the "holey bible."
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  12. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Agent for Christ Supporter

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    Not by way of comparison to the Bible’s that came hundreds of years after the KJV. Most Christians refer to other bibles (besides the KJV) as Modern Translations.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  13. carrwinn

    carrwinn New Member

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    Jehovah is God's name.
    It appears in over 6,000 places in the Hebrew Scriptures alone such as in Psalm 83:18.
    It has been removed or not included in many translations without justification.
    The Lord's Prayer begins by Jesus telling his followers to pray for God's name to be sanctified.
     
  14. carrwinn

    carrwinn New Member

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  15. John Robie

    John Robie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How many translations were around hundreds of years before the AV?

    There were already English language translations available at the time of the AV. Good ones, too. So anything they came after the Geneva Bible, for example, is a modern translation and should be rejected.
     
  16. John Robie

    John Robie Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I can find all of those truths in the NASB. And, since it’s translated from more accurate texts, I don’t have to worry about things that were never written by the original authors.
     
  17. carrwinn

    carrwinn New Member

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    The King James Version was the Bible for its day and for the purpose of that time but it isn't an original translation , removed God's name many times, and was written in what is now archaic language.
     
  18. carrwinn

    carrwinn New Member

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    Nevertheless the Bible's message is still there(Matthew 6:9,10; Genesis 3:5,6).
     
  19. gordonhooker

    gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

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    Yikes 6000 times in one verse in a Psalm, must be a big verse.
     
  20. carrwinn

    carrwinn New Member

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    Using God's name would demonstrate respect and honor for the Creator.
    The removal of the name is indefensible whether for superstition or otherwise and has been thusly effective in causing most Christians to not view using it or acknowledging it as important. Those seeking to please God would want to be obedient as Jesus and not selective in their decision to obey God's word. (John 10:24)
     
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