What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

[Tzaousios]

But I was also interested to see if the Round Table would actually take the cue and swing into action.

Can you please explain exactly what you mean by this statement?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Albion

But I was also interested to see if the Round Table would actually take the cue and swing into action.
​

Can you please explain exactly what you mean by this statement?

Have you gandered at this thread yet?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7789950/
Impetus for "The Round Table"

Regarding the 'Members of the Round Table' thing, what was the motivation for members here to start this? What are some of the standards that guide you in discussion?

 

[Tzaousios]

Have you gandered at this thread yet?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7789950/

Yeah, I posted a bunch of times in it!

 

[Nanopants]

The funny thing is that in many translations justice is translated as judgment

For example:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. (KJV)


Since justice and judgment are basically the same. Jesus is rebuking them for not judging which goes against what your telling me and agrees with what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:31

Given that He was constantly being judged by His opponents as recorded in the Gospels, leading up to His execution, and that He warned us about judging others, I sincerely doubt your interpretation. Secondly, Moses himself gave instruction to judge justly, though if you want to neglect the fact that God is just, I won't stop you.

They judged according to the flesh

you don't have to do anything, but if you want to engage in a debate you should at least listen to the other persons side of the argument

Luke12:54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

Discernment isn't a sixth sense. it's based on logic and reason. Discernment isn't making assumptions. It isn't second guessing a persons motives and intentions

Saying "He used paedophile priests in his question therefore he must have an ulterior motive" is not discernment

anyway biblical discernment is simply the ability to know right from wrong and see the truth.

What is biblical discernment and why is it important?

How can I increase my spiritual discernment?

Also Hebrews 5 is not saying discernment is a gift exclusive to some Christians, it's saying the opposite

Heb 5: 11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. (NIV)


Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil (KJV)


it means newbies to the word of God should be fed with milk like babies since they have trouble understanding/discerning.
Paul was chastising them because they should have been teachers by then but they themselves still needed to be taught
Heb 5:14 means anyone who studies the word can gain good discernment

Maybe, though 1 Cor 2:7,8 seems to say that not everyone who studied the word knew what the Apostles knew, else they would not have crucified Christ.

I was pointing out the obvious

Wait...

Only God knows our true motivations and intentions so only he can judge righteously

well you accused me of having an ulterior motive for asking my question. Something you have yet to prove

What suspicions? you've clearly done the things I've listed

Has the Spirit of God led you to these thoughts?

logic and reason led me to those thoughts

Are you sure?

No. This is the statement you made:

If all you can pin me on is that I've made an assumption, then, OK, but I'd add that the assumption that I've made an assumption is itself an assumption.

You were accusing me of making an assumption that you had made an assumption. That wasn't the case

You did notice the word "if", being a component of a proposition, at the beginning of the sentence, right?

Here is the definition of an assumption: A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

I can directly quote you on where you made an assumption(proof). So what I was saying wasn't an assumption.

If you know anything about propositional logic, you would know that a proposition is not an accusation (because it is not an assertion- the word "if" indicating that I was elaborating on only a possibility), therefore your claim that I accused you of making the assumption that I've made an assumption, is incorrect, and is itself a false accusation.

You still haven't given a good reason

Again if you're going to be in a debate you need to engage in it. if you can't give me an example I'm just gonna assume it's because you don't have one.

I prefer to choose my battles, and I prefer to debate with those who value intellectual honesty.

it's a documentary that means it's purpose is to show the facts. So I really don't see how it is untrustworthy.

I'm not trying to persuade you on changing your views on what happened to you I'm trying to show you the judgment on pedophile priests is not unjust

so does the judgment become invalid if they judged out of pride?

Pride is the Achilles' heel of God's own adversaries, and I'm inclined to believe that their decisions don't really matter much at all, at least in His eyes, except in the sense that what they're doing to others is wrong.

yes this is talking about hypocritical judgment like the "judge not" verse

This takes nothing away from the verse I just gave you about judging ourselves so that we aren't judged

Are you practicing what you preach?

 

[Rev Randy]

The list is of course accurate. But I was also interested to see if the Round Table would actually take the cue and swing into action. And guess what? ::

If your assumptions are correct they'll boot me as i'm leaving this to the Catholics. I was just tickled that you think your list is not flawed. Not surprised. Just laughing.

 

[MKJ]

I don't think it is a given that a change in teaching or practice means something was an error. Things that are appropriate in one circumstance may be inappropriate in another. Almost inevitable the response to the change will come after the change itself so there will be a period of time when the practice is not ideal for all.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't think it is a given that a change in teaching or practice means something was an error. Things that are appropriate in one circumstance may be inappropriate in another.
Almost inevitable the response to the change will come after the change itself so there will be a period of time when the practice is not ideal for all.

Are you just now figuring that out?



.

 

[MKJ]

Are you just now figuring that out?

.

No, it was based on the last few posts - I probably should have quoted for clarity.

I was responding to the idea that the fact that the Catholic Church changed some practices - like giving the Blood to the laity - means that the older practice was an error.

It may have been an error, or it might be that it made sense at one time, and then something changed.

 

[WisdomTree]

Where's the list for this one?

 

[Rev Randy]

Where's the list for this one?

There is a short list here;http://www.christianforums.com/t7767882-64/#post64632531

 

[Albion]

Where's the list for this one?

The list is in the OP. Not at all hard to find.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by WisdomTree

Where's the list for this one?
​

There is a short list here;http://www.christianforums.com/t7767882-64/#post64632531

There is a larger list on this other thread, but alas, it was closed down from too many Mod Hats coming on it

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870602/#post54128344
Roman church errors and inventions

MOD HAT AGAIN...

Closing thread pending review.

Mark

Theology Admin.



.

 

[Godisgood12]

What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

Yes.

 

[Godisgood12]

We are not at war in the flesh. We havn't ever been at war in the flesh.

 

[Rev Randy]

We are not at war in the flesh. We havn't ever been at war in the flesh.

Huh? Really?

 

[Standing Up]

Like the list in Protestant errors, not everyone will agree on these Roman Catholic errors. Feel free to suggest others.

1) Eucharist Adoration (the worship of the bread, rather than God).
2) Accepting bad theology from those who contradict scripture (devotions to "sacred" hearts, worship of angels).
3) Accepting "regenerative" baptisms of heretical groups as on par with Christian baptism.
4) Maintaining the clergy/laity split, rather than promoting the biblical priesthood of believers.
5) Believing Christ died on Good Friday.
6) Believing Christ rose in the night or at sunrise Easter Sunday.
7) Maintaining more than 66 books of the bible as inspired (God breathed).
8) Believing there is salvific information necessary for Christians apart from the bible.
9) Maintaining that Jesus Christ was not born in the normal human way (with afterbirth), thus ending virginity.
10) Believing there is another way to God besides Christ (the Roman Church sums up this belief Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.) .
11) Ignoring tradition that ties directly to scripture.
12) Defining "apostolic succession" as anything other than "teach the same" as apostles.
13) Believing Peter assigned anyone at Rome his authority (1 Peter 5:1-3 Peter calls the elders of Asia Minor and gives them the same authority (feed His sheep) that Christ gave him).
14) Assumption of Mary as a salvific belief.
15) Immaculate conception as a salvific belief.
16) Sacerdotal sacrament.
17) Works necessary to maintain salvation.
18) Submission to the Pope as salvific (unam sanctam and lumen gentium, confirming same doctrine)
19) Purgatory.
20) Transubstantian.
21) Ignoring Council decisions.
22) Failing to discern the Body of the Lord, calling them communities, rather than churches.
23) Believe the pope is infallible.
24) Failing to understand the Roman Church is a denomination.
25) Pretending the authority of apostles (Firmilian 256ad).

 

[Standing Up]

Where's the list for this one?

See the post above.

 

[Rick Otto]

We are not at war in the flesh. We havn't ever been at war in the flesh.
​

Huh? Really?

Still got that rash?

 

[Rev Randy]

We are not at war in the flesh. We havn't ever been at war in the flesh.
​

Still got that rash?

Just trying to understand the cryptology.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Where's the list for this one?

Glad you ask!

See the post above.

Nice list and thanks!

Like the list in Protestant errors, not everyone will agree on these Roman Catholic errors. Feel free to suggest others.

1) Eucharist Adoration (the worship of the bread, rather than God).
2) Accepting bad theology from those who contradict scripture (devotions to "sacred" hearts, worship of angels).
3) Accepting "regenerative" baptisms of heretical groups as on par with Christian baptism.
4) Maintaining the clergy/laity split, rather than promoting the biblical priesthood of believers.
5) Believing Christ died on Good Friday.
6) Believing Christ rose in the night or at sunrise Easter Sunday.
7) Maintaining more than 66 books of the bible as inspired (God breathed).
8) Believing there is salvific information necessary for Christians apart from the bible.
9) Maintaining that Jesus Christ was not born in the normal human way (with afterbirth), thus ending virginity.
10) Believing there is another way to God besides Christ (the Roman Church sums up this belief Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation.) .
11) Ignoring tradition that ties directly to scripture.
12) Defining "apostolic succession" as anything other than "teach the same" as apostles.
13) Believing Peter assigned anyone at Rome his authority (1 Peter 5:1-3 Peter calls the elders of Asia Minor and gives them the same authority (feed His sheep) that Christ gave him).
14) Assumption of Mary as a salvific belief.
15) Immaculate conception as a salvific belief.
16) Sacerdotal sacrament.
17) Works necessary to maintain salvation.
18) Submission to the Pope as salvific (unam sanctam and lumen gentium, confirming same doctrine)
19) Purgatory.
20) Transubstantian.
21) Ignoring Council decisions.
22) Failing to discern the Body of the Lord, calling them communities, rather than churches.
23) Believe the pope is infallible.
24) Failing to understand the Roman Church is a denomination.
25) Pretending the authority of apostles (Firmilian 256ad).