What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

Pteriax · Aug 23, 2013

Erose said:
and I also corrected you false understanding on this subject, by pointing out simply, that you are assuming much, about the capacity of those already in heaven.

You corrected nothing, and you have understood nothing I have said. You just keep repeating the same garbage as if that will make it true.

Erose said:
Show me were I said He needs anyone. Again putting words out there that are not there. One thing that the Bible is very explicit on, and that is that God LOVES to work through His Children, and makes His presence felt more through them, than through miracles. The Bible is full of stories of God's work through His Prophets and Saints. It's the way He works, so why would this be shut off when we get to heaven?

He works through prophets and saints on earth. Period. And the Bible is indeed very explicit on this. I want to know why you think praying to Mary or some other supposed saint is better than praying to the one and only mediator between God and man - Jesus the Christ.

Erose said:
When He said that through the Holy Spirit He will guide His Church into all Truth. You misunderstand the roll of a prophet. A Prophet proclaims the Word of God, this doesn't necessarily require predicting the future. The Church as a whole is God's Prophet. The church through her ministers, proclaims the Word of God. The time of the Prophets hasn't ended, in fact if anything, we are all called to be Prophets, in that we are suppose to bring God's word to the world.

No, I do not. I know exactly what a prophet's role is. As far as this conversation is concerned it doesn't matter if the prophet is speaking of what God intends to do in the future or His commands for the present.

Where does the Bible say that the church is God's prophet? Chapter and verse please. Or is that yet another invention of the RCC?

Erose said:
God is the one answering the prayers. If you intercede for someone, and their prayer is answered, are you the one that answered the prayer? Of course not! The same holds for the saints in heaven, they may intercede for you, just as you may intercede for others. The biggest difference, is that relationship with God has been perfected, where ours has not as of yet.

Actually, I am pretty sure that the Bible says I am made perfect by the blood of Christ and that there is no condemnation in me. I am just as qualified as any so called Catholic saint to beseech God for help, thank Him for His many blessings, and worship Him. The priesthood has passed away. Now we can all have equal access to Jesus, our high priest.

Erose said:
Remember what St James says:
James 5:16b For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much. [17] Elias was a man passible like unto us: and with prayer he prayed that it might not rain upon the earth, and it rained not for three years and six months. [18] And he prayed again: and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

And that has nothing to do with praying to anyone but God. I will ask again. Where in the Bible, chapter and verse, does anyone pray to someone other than God except the pagans?

Rick Otto · Aug 23, 2013

Rev Randy said:
God indeed said not to make and worship graven images. Then He promptly told them to make this: Numbers 21:8
So did he mean to make no gods or not to carve?

Could we not infer that He meant by that, only by His commissioning?
That would seem to be most reasonable, no?

Rick Otto · Aug 23, 2013

quote=Pteriax; You corrected nothing, and you have understood nothing I have said. You just keep repeating the same garbage as if that will make it true.

Not true, just believed to be so.

He works through prophets and saints on earth. Period. And the Bible is indeed very explicit on this. I want to know why you think praying to Mary or some other supposed saint is better than praying to the one and only mediator between God and man - Jesus the Christ.

Maybe they think she's more forgiving?

Where does the Bible say that the church is God's prophet? Chapter and verse please. Or is that yet another invention of the RCC?

Click to expand...

Good question(s).

Actually, I am pretty sure that the Bible says I am made perfect by the blood of Christ and that there is no condemnation in me. I am just as qualified as any so called Catholic saint to beseech God for help, thank Him for His many blessings, and worship Him. The priesthood has passed away. Now we can all have equal access to Jesus, our high priest.

The partitioned (Levitical) priesthood & their animal sacrifice duties have passed away, the priesthood of believers is now in effect, so (&) you're right. Direct access is possible, so why not use it unless you feel unworthy? If that's the case, this feeling is a bigger problem of which praying to physicaly deceased saints is a symptom, in my opinion.

And that has nothing to do with praying to anyone but God. I will ask again. Where in the Bible, chapter and verse, does anyone pray to someone other than God except the pagans?

What I thought especialy intersting that you pointed out earlier, is that God seperated "to serve" from "bow down before them" explicitly pointing to the behavior apart from the intent (which is the distinction The Catholic Encyclopedia points out is the essential determining factor in defining idolatry).

No small matter, that.

Erose · Aug 23, 2013

apostolic34 said:
The bolded, and especially the part in red, is not exactly true. Another thread states this of the Virgin Mary in the OP:

Source:http://www.christianforums.com/t7768562/#post64008286.

I contended in that thread (and will here as well) that it attributes to Mary that which only Christ can do (preserving flesh and spirit from death).

I'm sorry but posts are not authoritative.

Erose · Aug 23, 2013

Pteriax said:
You really don't see the difference in God telling you to do something, and just deciding on your own? Really?

No, they do not understand scripture. They twist scripture to fit whatever they want it to.

At some point you really need to finish reading Exodus. If anyone is twisting Scripture it you for failing to understand the rest of Scripture. Taking a passage out of Scripture and not looking at it through the lense of the rest of Scripture, will lead you down the road of falsehood.

Rick Otto · Aug 23, 2013

Erose said:
I'm sorry but posts are not authoritative.

Is that why you make them, or is content relevant for you?
If so, you're dismissal of it without regard to content is, ah,... remarkable.

Rick Otto · Aug 23, 2013

Erose said:
At some point you really need to finish reading Exodus. If anyone is twisting Scripture it you for failing to understand the rest of Scripture. Taking a passage out of Scripture and not looking at it through the lense of the rest of Scripture, will lead you down the road of falsehood.

Again you dismiss everything with no discernable reason.
Yes, you mention the rest of scripture, but with no discernable point of contention.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 23, 2013

Originally Posted by Erose

I'm sorry but posts are not authoritative.

Click to expand...

Who knew..............

Rick Otto said:
Is that why you make them, or is content relevant for you?
If so, you're dismissal of it without regard to content is, ah,... remarkable.

Tis called RC apologetics at it's finest......

.

Erose · Aug 23, 2013

Pteriax said:
You corrected nothing, and you have understood nothing I have said. You just keep repeating the same garbage as if that will make it true.

I repeat because it is true. Your failure to properly respond speaks volumes.

Pteriax said:
Well considering that I don't think that praying to Mary is better than praying to Christ, I will leave it at that.

Pteriax said:

Where does the Bible say that the church is God's prophet? Chapter and verse please.[/COLOR] Or is that yet another invention of the RCC?

Click to expand...

Luke 10: 16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

Mark 16:[15] And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature.[16] He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

1Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Quite honestly the whole New Testament proclaims as such.

Pteriax said:

Yes you can beseech Jesus Christ, never denied that, and in fact I am sure that I have affirmed this in my post. But like I wrote it does not hurt to have others intercede for you either. Or I guess you don't believe in intercessory prayer because Catholics do?

Pteriax said:

I will ask again. Where in the Bible, chapter and verse, does anyone pray to someone other than God except the pagans?[/COLOR]

Click to expand...

it is all through the OT. Every time someone speaks to an angel what do you think that is? Concerning praying to saints, at that point Jesus hadn't freed the captives from Sheol yet, so there were no saints in heaven at that time.

Of course we also have the language of the Book of Revelation as well:
Rev 8:[3] And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. [4] And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.

Rev 5: [8] And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints

Click to expand...

Erose · Aug 23, 2013

Rick Otto said:
Is that why you make them, or is content relevant for you?
If so, you're dismissal of it without regard to content is, ah,... remarkable.

I'm not going back to read another thread to answer one post on another thread. Bring you point, and post it. I do not have time to watch everybody's videos, and read threads just for one post. I like the shorts and sweets.

Besides I am still waiting for someone to respond to posts 80-81. But then again, you have that analogy of the pot calling the kettle black, that fits perfectly here.

Tzaousios · Aug 23, 2013

Rick Otto said:
Is that why you make them, or is content relevant for you?
If so, you're dismissal of it without regard to content is, ah,... remarkable.

It is interesting that you did not notice Pteriax's "False...False...No...No" replies. Not much regard to content there, either.

ImaginaryDay · Aug 23, 2013

Erose said:
I'm sorry but posts are not authoritative.

I agree, but I would assume that a previous Bishop of the RCC, (now considered a Saint) would be and that his views would reflect the teachings of the church. As that thread is now closed I won't reference it again, but it was just an example of the discrepancy I see of what individual RC's say and what the collective seems to demonstrate.

Pteriax · Aug 23, 2013

Erose said:
At some point you really need to finish reading Exodus. If anyone is twisting Scripture it you for failing to understand the rest of Scripture. Taking a passage out of Scripture and not looking at it through the lense of the rest of Scripture, will lead you down the road of falsehood.

At some point you need to stop acting like you know which parts of the Bible I have read / understand. It doesn't say what you want it to say.

decent orange · Aug 23, 2013

I'm not sure the Catholics have any errors or inventions. And if they are alive, and breathing, listen to them, and hear what they have to say. They speak whatever God wills them to speak. We should be happy about all the good that comes out of the Catholic Church's mouth.

Pteriax · Aug 23, 2013

APPARITIONS OF MARY: IS THE VIRGIN MARY THE FOURTH PART OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC "TRINITY"? - YouTube

Mary apparitions

Pteriax · Aug 23, 2013

Luke 10: 16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.

Mark 16:[15] And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature.[16] He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

1Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Quite honestly the whole New Testament proclaims as such.

None of this calls the church a prophet as you claim. next.

Yes you can beseech Jesus Christ, never denied that, and in fact I am sure that I have affirmed this in my post. But like I wrote it does not hurt to have others intercede for you either. Or I guess you don't believe in intercessory prayer because Catholics do?

Intercessors are not in heaven or hell.

it is all through the OT. Every time someone speaks to an angel what do you think that is? Concerning praying to saints, at that point Jesus hadn't freed the captives from Sheol yet, so there were no saints in heaven at that time.

Of course we also have the language of the Book of Revelation as well:
Rev 8:[3] And another angel came, and stood before the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar, which is before the throne of God. [4] And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.

Rev 5: [8] And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints

None of this is an example of someone praying to anyone but God. Next.

Rick Otto · Aug 23, 2013

Erose said:
I'm not going back to read another thread to answer one post on another thread. Bring you point, and post it. I do not have time to watch everybody's videos, and read threads just for one post. I like the shorts and sweets.

Besides I am still waiting for someone to respond to posts 80-81. But then again, you have that analogy of the pot calling the kettle black, that fits perfectly here.

Not realy, but I will concede that I would've copy & pasted for your convenience because it seems about the same effort as linking.

Pteriax · Aug 23, 2013

Erose said:
I'm not going back to read another thread to answer one post on another thread. Bring you point, and post it. I do not have time to watch everybody's videos, and read threads just for one post. I like the shorts and sweets.

lol. don't like evidence, eh? Evidence takes up space, fills pages with text, and videos.

Erose said:
Besides I am still waiting for someone to respond to posts 80-81. But then again, you have that analogy of the pot calling the kettle black, that fits perfectly here.

Already done, quite specifically, but you ignored it because it wasn't "short and sweet". Your problem not mine.

Tzaousios said:
It is interesting that you did not notice Pteriax's "False...False...No...No" replies. Not much regard to content there, either.

Whenever I am asked further about such replies, I expand on them, as you have yourself experienced. Erose refuses to do that.

Rick Otto · Aug 23, 2013

Tzaousios said:
It is interesting that you did not notice Pteriax's "False...False...No...No" replies. Not much regard to content there, either.

Right. I notice you noticed.
Have you noticed enough of either parties posts to make a generalization?
I believe I have. Would you like to hear it, or do you already know what I'm going to say?

Rick Otto · Aug 23, 2013

decent orange said:
I'm not sure the Catholics have any errors or inventions. And if they are alive, and breathing, listen to them, and hear what they have to say. They speak whatever God wills them to speak. We should be happy about all the good that comes out of the Catholic Church's mouth.

Wow.
I spent the first 18 years of my life listening to what they say AND watching what they do.
They do not speak whatever God wills them to speak, unless you are referring to predestinaton.
I am both happy that good comes out of their mouths & that a stopped clock is right twice a day.

What errors and inventions arose in Roman Catholicism?

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