What does..........

[Joe the 2nd]

No Christ spoke about the Religiousness of the Pharisees. I think you maybe seeing it through a bit of a liberal lens.

Look again. Christ spoke against the teachers of the law for putting an overwhelming burden on the people and not lifting a finger to help:

Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them."

He was talking about the extreme religious regulations that the teachers of the law were putting on the people and which made their conditions even worse.

When Jesus invited people to come to him with the words, "For my yoke is light", part of the meaning is that he would not impose the same harsh conditions on them. People would not have to try to get right with God through fulfilling endless religious regulations under the new faith that he was introducing.

So Jesus spoke out against oppression and sometimes liberated people from it (there are similar examples).

When we are not prepared to do the same, we become liberal ourselves. Rather than being prepared to do the thing that God expects us to do, we try to dodge out of it with rationalisations. And when liberal Christians seek justice as God tells us to do, they become conservative on that particular point.

 

[LinuxUser]

Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them."

He was talking about the extreme religious regulations that the teachers of the law were putting on the people and which made their conditions even worse.

Yes, religious oppression. The rest of your post I disagree with, Christ did not come for "Social Justice". Christ came to save us from sin not to make us rich. If you think Christ came to wrench poverty away you have it completely wrong.

 

[A New Dawn]

It's an interesting question and I can't answer with regard to the situation where you live.

The first thing that springs to mind is that my local churches don't know what the justice issues are in the community. We have community meetings called PACT meetings, where residents meet to discuss local issues that need sorting out. No members from the churches attend, and consequently they don't know what the issues are when I talk to them.

One problem has been with a social landlord collecting rents from all the people each month but neglecting their responsibility to maintain the children's play area. Another has been the local authority trying to close down a school with special needs kids to save money. Church leaders could attend the public consultations, ask pertinent questions, and make sure that the people are being listened to. But they don't come to the consultations to be able to do that.

So how can these leaders and laity do what God tells them to do - and stand up for social justice - if they don't find out what the issues are and come to the meetings in the first place?? The next Sunday in church they'll be talking again about Christianity as a relationship with God, without seeing God's heart in the struggles of the community

At the national level, it is also very rare to see the churches stand up for justice. One Christian tried to set up a system where churches in each part of the UK meet with their MP four times a year, to examine whether their MP is really caring for the poor with his/her policies. But only a handful of churches across the country are interested in doing that.

Greedy corporations find legal loopholes to avoid paying millions and billions in tax, while our government cuts welfare to some of the most vulnerable people in society. One firm has dodged paying an estimated £6 billion in tax, while the government has just cut winter fuel allowance to the elderly. This year thousands of extra elderly people will die of the cold as a result.

But when I attend the peaceful protests against this economic scandal, I end up inadvertantly rubbing shoulders with some Marxists and Anarchists in the crowd. They are the ones who seem to care about the unjust situation; the Christians are nowhere to be seen.

You know what? I do understand that it is hard to see people living in those situations, and share the concern that it's very wrong for them to be treated in that manner, but I believe that Christianity is involved in community issues, though they differ from the list that you present. Christianity is deeply involved in the issue of abortion, which, at it's deepest level, is much more of a problem than what you listed. When the very life of an individual is snuffed out, without consideration, it shows that the sanctity of life is not valued. And until the sanctity of life is valued, then we will continue to see the decline in society that we are seeing now. You can't give society a right to trample on life and then not expect them to do so. So, maybe people are looking in the wrong direction. Let them look at the most basic things first, and that would be right where Christianity is taking it's stand.

 

[LinuxUser]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm thinking abortion might not be such a bad idea now that I've heard that many babies will be born damned to hell anyway. Why not spare them the agony of having to go through a crappy life, and just send them straight to hell, since there's a good chance they are going there anyway? Obviously god doesn't value the sanctity of life if he creates people with no choice to seek him and go to heaven. Sorry...I can't get over it.

What's you heard is wrong and a distortion, I am sorry to you for those people. That view is a reformed/Calvinist view. Christians can have different kinds of views and not all who label themselves Christian are such

Everyone born gets a choice when they get to the age of accountability, knowing wrong from right, which is debated in Christian circles when that is. God sends no one to Hell, nor is He happy when the wicked parish. Why? It is because they do it to themselves even though they blame God. In this life we got ample opportunity to respond to Him after that it's to late.

We don't know what happens to babies who never get a chance, that is best left up to God's mercy and love.

 

[Torporeal]

Well whose definition is that? It's not mine. In Isaiah 59:14-16 the Lord looks and is displeased that there is no justice and nobody prepared to intercede on the side of justice.

We can't dodge the importance of justice by redefining it.

I agree.

First, the definition isn't mine - it belongs to those who espouse social justice, either admittedly or consequentially. There can be no argument as to its veracity.

Second, what do you think Isaiah is saying in that verse? Do you think he is espousing "social" justice? There's a huge difference between that and "justice"; the distinction is not trivial.

Why was/is there no one to intercede on the side of justice? Isaiah is explicit in telling us - in verse 2 (our iniquities, our sins). In verses 3 - 7 he outlines for us what those sins are, specifically. In verse 8 he concludes - "therefore" they did not know peace, there was no justice in their tracks, their paths crooked - and whoever follows them know no peace either.

In verses 9-15 he describes the outcome of all that, the symptoms of sin - justice, righteousness, truth, uprightness - all fall by the wayside as a consequence of sin.

-- Do you believe that is justification for giving to government the responsibility for "social" justice? Because make no mistake, "social" justice leaders seek exactly that. Is that what you believe is the solution to the problem of justice you quote from Isaiah?

Consider then verses 16 and on. Of whom or what do these verses speak? You cited verse 16:

And He saw that there was no man, and He was astonished that there was no one to intercede; then His own arm brought salvation to Him, and His righteousness upheld Him.

No one to intercede for whom? The "why" should be clear now - salvation, redemption.

See verse 20 - "And a Redeemer will come to Zion." Of whom do you think He is speaking?

The danger (and heresy, in my opinion) of "social" justice is that the leaders of its cause do not care about God's justice (indeed quite the opposite) but seek the ability to dispense their own version of "justice" via the halls of government. Indeed, their goal is the very antithesis of justice - and if history is any judge of their purposes, this should be evident with a little discernment.

The sobering aspect in all this is how those [social justice] leaders have gotten some in the Christian community to follow them, and with a few select verses extracted from context, they now think they wield scriptural support for their cause - which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I would urge you therefore to delve deeper into this cause and the ideology that is really driving it.

God bless...