What does this verse mean?

[Dominus Fidelis]

Hi-

I was hoping for some explanation on one of your beliefs in light of this verse I read in the Bible.

"Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, no neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned." - John 15:1-6

Jesus says if we don't remain in Him we will be thrown out and burned.

How do you all reconcile this verse with the belief in eternal security and a one-time justification? (If you do believe that idea)

If we are to REMAIN in Him...that means we were ALREADY in Him...thus it would be illogical to say that this verse is to the non-saved, no?

Thanks!

 

[eldermike]

This passage describes a system, God's church, His body, however you want to say it.

For the root to bear fruit through the branches non fruit bearing branches need to be removed. Otherwise you see a dead looking vine with some fruit but hidden in the dead branches.

For the fruit to show and be seen by a lost world the dead branches have to go.

The purpose of the Church is to witness to God's glory, it's not for our good but for His Glory.

This passage has nothing to do with salvation, it's about our witness to the world we live in now.

Eldermike

 

[onetruechurch]

Hi-

I was hoping for some explanation on one of your beliefs in light of this verse I read in the Bible.

"Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, no neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned." - John 15:1-6

Jesus says if we don't remain in Him we will be thrown out and burned.

How do you all reconcile this verse with the belief in eternal security and a one-time justification? (If you do believe that idea)

If we are to REMAIN in Him...that means we were ALREADY in Him...thus it would be illogical to say that this verse is to the non-saved, no?

Thanks!

this is a very simple verse- that is why I don't understand the once saved always saved theory. If you are not profitable to God and do not keep his commandments, then you will be thrown out. go on to read verses 7-11."if ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love." yes,This verse is for the saved,but he is saying look, if you don't do what I say and abide in me, then you won't be saved-I don't see anything about "witnessing".

 

[eldermike]

I am not debating this, the question was to get an idea of what the verse could mean in light of OSAS. I don't see a question that says let's see if we can start a debate on eternal security.
If you are in the insecure camp, then be happy.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

This passage has nothing to do with salvation, it's about our witness to the world we live in now.

Eldermike

It doesnt? What is the talk about being thrown out and burned if not salvation?

Thanks Mike.

 

[eldermike]

Scripture has to be taken in total. A doctrine is formed by the study of scripture. A verse found on the moon would not lead you to anything but a verse found on the moon. If you form your doctrine based on a verse then you will have to change it over and over as you read on.

My question to you is: How do you justify the many scriptures that support OSAS in light of the few that you use to justify a OSNAS?

Eldermike

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

My question to you is: How do you justify the many scriptures that support OSAS in light of the few that you use to justify a OSNAS?

Eldermike

I haven't found any to be honest.

Would you mind answering my question about what the "burning" refers to?

 

[onetruechurch]

I am not debating this, the question was to get an idea of what the verse could mean in light of OSAS. I don't see a question that says let's see if we can start a debate on eternal security.
If you are in the insecure camp, then be happy.

Did I say I was debating? how come you can answer a question how you see fit, and just b/c I answer differently, I am debating? The verse plainly states, if you abide in God you will be saved, if not you will burn.

 

[Andre]

I believe He is refering to believers that choose to cut themselves from Chirst, you can't loose your salvation by backsliding or because you sinned, but if you choose to reject Christ you cut yourself from the Tree. If you have Jesus as your Lord and Savior you will bear fruit as a result of your faith, sometimes you will have to be pruned in order to start bearing fruit, Jesus can do that also, but you must be following Him and allowing Him to do the work in you, but you can choose to reject that, that's when you can be cut from the tree so that the rest of the tree can bear more fruit, we have free will.

Hebrews 6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

One thing you can be sure, if you repent God will take you back, you will see that thru the Bible, doen't matter how many times you fall, God is always willing to take you back, but I believe that you can get to a point where God will let you go, and He won't use the Holy Spirit to try to get you back, it will be up to you to go back and ask for forgivness.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Andre-

I agree completely.

 

[onetruechurch]

My question to you is: How do you justify the many scriptures that support OSAS in light of the few that you use to justify a OSNAS?

Where are the verses about osas? NOT A DEBATE. Just a question.

 

[eldermike]

Defens0rFidei,

Burning refers to burning. However, burning does not refer to hell. It refers to how you clean up after you finish pruning a vine.

God uses us to reveal His glory, if your not willing to be part of that, then He's not going to use you.

Jesus said this to men He hand picked for a purpose. He was talking about the purpose. He said He would send them a "Helper". To help with what? staying saved? Come on now------read it again.

We are called to a purpose. Jesus never stopped talking about the reason He came and the reason He called men to be fishers of men.

BTW, a reminder:

This is not your debate forum, you have my answer.

Eldermike

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Anyone else want to take a stab at it for me?

I did not find eldermike's answer satisfying personally but I can't press the issue further per forum rules.

 

[eldermike]

Where are the verses about osas? NOT A DEBATE. Just a question.

You will find endless debate on this issue in the Soteriology forum.

 

[onetruechurch]

not a debate, just an answer

 

[onetruechurch]

You will find endless debate on this issue in the Soteriology forum.

ok I am sure I will see you there!!!! still don't understand how you can anwser the way you want to and I can't?????

 

[eldermike]

ok I am sure I will see you there!!!! still don't understand how you can anwser the way you want to and I can't?????

I didn't mean to say you can't answer the question. I meant that we were not going to debate with the OP based on forum specific rules. You may answer the question.

Eldermike

 

[Caedmon]

If you are in the insecure camp, then be happy.

May I inquire the connotation of the word, "insecure"?

 

[eldermike]

May I inquire the connotation of the word, "insecure"?

The connotation is frustration. No answer will do here, it's not a question that can be answered, it's a an issue that has it's own forum, that's how large it is. And, the answers will not be accpeted they will just lead to endless debate in the worng forum.

Perhaps I should move it.

 

[Caedmon]

The connotation is frustration. No answer will do here, it's not a question that can be answered, it's a an issue that has it's own forum, that's how large it is. And, the answers will not be accpeted they will just lead to endless debate in the worng forum.

Perhaps I should move it.

I asked because it looks like you associated the term, "insecure," with those in the OSNAS "camp." The word, "insecure," can also connote emotional instability. Furthermore, believing in "OSNAS" (a term which I do not believe does justice to the belief system(s) that it represents) does not render a Christian insecure in her faith, imho.