What does this verse mean?

[eldermike]

I asked because it looks like you associated the term, "insecure," with those in the OSNAS "camp." The word, "insecure," can also connote emotional instability. Furthermore, believing in "OSNAS" (a term which I do not believe does justice to the belief system(s) that it represents) does not render a Christian insecure in her faith, imho.

I'll buy that. I should have held my words. My wife is actually a OSNAS believer and I have mastered the art of keeping my mouth shut at home. So, if I offended anyone, please forgive me.

Eldermike

 

[BBAS 64]

DOF



How have you been? This is the way the bible presents the truth of the power of the “Vine” whom is Christ. I would also say that this is not the only context in which we see this truth proclaimed I think of the wheat and tares in Mathew to further shed truth on this passage and also Romans. The branch that shows forth fruit is dependant on the power of the vine to supply the essential elements of the fruit.



Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.





Jesus very clearly says to abide in him this requires an action because this is a verb, The question now becomes HOW do we abide? The verse 15:5 tells us “for with out me you ca do nothing” so our ability to abide in him is based on him. Abiding though the Faith that God has given us in a measure as a gift that always will result in grace.



Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.





Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

I do not see any conflict in this passeage that would lead to the problems you have identified in the OP. When taken in the context off all of scripture "premise unpon premise" using the clear teachings of scripture to help us to understand those thing we may see as unclear.



Hope this helps.



BBAS

 

[Caedmon]

I'll buy that. I should have held my words. My wife is actually a OSNAS believer and I have mastered the art of keeping my mouth shut at home. So, if I offended anyone, please forgive me.

Eldermike

It's ok. I just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding.

 

[pmarquette]

a little Botany 101 .....
abide in the vine - we are grafted into the chosen people , a "V" cut into stem, wrapped , and nutured so as to grow together

plants have little tubes that go from the roots to the leaves [xlylem ] and tubes that go from the leaves to the roots [phloem] . if you cut the outer 1" of the tree off [gird ], you cut off the food and water from the plant , the connection between the roots and leaves [ between us and God - sin ], and the plant dies .

So , as long as we fellowship , pray , repent , intercede , work , walk , obey , submit ... we are in the vine and the fruit of the vine : God's grace water , and the Ministry of the Holy Spirit - food continue to flow in our lives .

sin and rebellion , weaken or cut off our food and water [ spiritual ] and we backslide , walk away , or separate ourselves from God.

 

[onetruechurch]

a little Botany 101 .....
abide in the vine - we are grafted into the chosen people , a "V" cut into stem, wrapped , and nutured so as to grow together

plants have little tubes that go from the roots to the leaves [xlylem ] and tubes that go from the leaves to the roots [phloem] . if you cut the outer 1" of the tree off [gird ], you cut off the food and water from the plant , the connection between the roots and leaves [ between us and God - sin ], and the plant dies .

So , as long as we fellowship , pray , repent , intercede , work , walk , obey , submit ... we are in the vine and the fruit of the vine : God's grace water , and the Ministry of the Holy Spirit - food continue to flow in our lives .

sin and rebellion , weaken or cut off our food and water [ spiritual ] and we backslide , walk away , or separate ourselves from God.

very good answer!! and caedmon thanks for backing me. Yes I am very secure in my faith.

 

[duster1az]

"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it, that it may bear more fruit"..."If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned" (John 15:2, 6).

It's my position this passage speaks of the believer's ability to be a useful witness in the cause of christ.

At the very opening of this passage a branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit is spoken about, indicating there is such a thing, and human experience demonstrates this to be possible. Therefore, the thought of abiding in Christ doesn't suggest the idea of remaining in a saved estate, but speaks of an unbroken communion with Him on the part of the one who through grace has entered into that union.

Believers who don't abide in communion with Christ, though saved, are powerless with respect to testimony and service; and being broken off from communion are withered in spiritual power. Then they (man not God) reject the pretense of the believer whose daily life becomes deplorable in their eyes and gathers them and cast them into the fire. It is true that only faith will justify before God, but only works will justify before man.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[BAChristian]

I'll buy that. I should have held my words. My wife is actually a OSNAS believer and I have mastered the art of keeping my mouth shut at home. So, if I offended anyone, please forgive me.

Eldermike

The fact of the matter is, brother Mike, OSAS vs. OSNAS has been debated in the official debating forum thoroughly...

It's also been debated for the last, oh, what...500 years...or more...

No one can agree -- I'm with you, I say we stop the action before it starts. IMO, debating over this issue, in a non-formal debate forum, is a total, and utter waste of time. (And it causes too much frustration, and possibly sinful thoughts and actions.)

 

[Pink Angel]

My personel opinion on that verse is that In order to remain him we must come to him. He is saying that we need to trust and stay with God, if we doubt him than we can very easily fall away from him. He is the vine we are the branches. In order to grow in Him spiritually, we must have the fruit of the spirit. The vine produces off the branch. just as we are called to save, he speaks through us on that occasion where you are witnessing to him. I hope this makes sence

If we fall away from God then it is hard for us to come back to him, depending on how far away we stray. The leaf burning on the ground is just symbolizing the situation. See now if we start to die in him (the leaf starts to turn brown) then since we are still consumed in him we can get our faith back, and turn green once again. Now if we go so far as to completely stray away and neglect him, then we become the leaf that is burning on the ground. Now that does not mean your salvation has died, it simply means that you have strayed so far away that it is extremely hard to come back.

If you have strayed that far then you are mostlikely consumed with sin, and temptation. God is a very forgiving God, yes, but it will take more that just forgiveness to become branch or leaf again. Again I hope this wasnt confusing.

I hope I have helped. God bless!

Pink Angel

 

[Serapha]

Hi-

I was hoping for some explanation on one of your beliefs in light of this verse I read in the Bible.

"Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, no neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned." - John 15:1-6

Jesus says if we don't remain in Him we will be thrown out and burned.

How do you all reconcile this verse with the belief in eternal security and a one-time justification? (If you do believe that idea)

If we are to REMAIN in Him...that means we were ALREADY in Him...thus it would be illogical to say that this verse is to the non-saved, no?

Thanks!

Hi there!



To paraphrase from Louis Talbot....

The first statement tells what God does with a fruitless branch, and the second what men do with a fruitless branch. But the branch remains attached for both.


"people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned"


~malaka~

 

[A. believer]

Hi-

I was hoping for some explanation on one of your beliefs in light of this verse I read in the Bible.

"Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, no neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned." - John 15:1-6

Jesus says if we don't remain in Him we will be thrown out and burned.

How do you all reconcile this verse with the belief in eternal security and a one-time justification? (If you do believe that idea)

If we are to REMAIN in Him...that means we were ALREADY in Him...thus it would be illogical to say that this verse is to the non-saved, no?

Thanks!

Here's a Reformed exegesis of the passage from James White's website.

The vine and the branches