What does this mean:

[Iollain]

1Cr 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.


1Cr 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you.


1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.


1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head.


1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.


1Cr 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.


1Cr 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.


1Cr 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.


1Cr 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.


1Cr 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on [her] head because of the angels.


1Cr 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.


1Cr 11:12 For as the woman [is] of the man, even so [is] the man also by the woman; but all things of God.


1Cr 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?


1Cr 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


1Cr 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering.


1Cr 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Could someone explain this, especially the 'because of the angels' part.
Thanks

 

[Yhudah]

Could someone explain this, especially the 'because of the angels' part.

This is my understanding concerning those verses and this in particular in which you have asked about.

Firstly, as I understand it, Rav Sha'ul (Apostle Paul) did not veiw the Body of Messiah (Church) as a little group of people tucked away on their own in some religious building.

Rather he veiwed the Body of Messiah, as part of a vast, action-packed drama spanning both earth and heaven.

Participation in their meetings was not limited to human beings but could also include angels, both good and evil.

In particular, Sha'ul warned that human woman participating in the worship of the congregation needed to be aware of the possible presence of both good and evil angels.

Their appropriate response was to have a suitable covering on their heads.

In this way, they affirmed that they were under the authority that Messiah has vested in the Body of Messiah, the Church.

By having a suitable covering on their heads, they paid due respect to the good angels who might be present and at the same time protected themselves against impure spiritual infuences that might proceed from evil angels.

The instructions concerning worship which Sha'ul gave in the verses you asked about in 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 can be summed up on one word: reverence.



Be blessed as you seek to bless others!


Yehuda

 

[ShirChadash]

Here's an article you may find helpful...

http://crossover.ellison.net/HeadcoveringIntro.htm

 

[MyLittleWonders]

I have read the same explanation that Yhudah wrote. David Stern, in his Jewish New Testament Commentary writes, "A difficult verse, perhaps to be understood from Isaiah 6:2, where the angels cover themselves in the presence of ... God ... ." (pg. 475) So, this is what Isaiah 6:2 reads: "Seraphs stood in attendance on Him. Each of them had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his legs, and with two he would fly."

Most every commentary I've read (and especially those from Messianic mindsets) say that the verses regarding men and head coverings do not mean that men are not to wear kippah or tallis. Rather, I guess the custom of the pagan religion at the time (and around Corinth), men would veil their faces either with a physical veil (cloth) or by growing their hair long and pulling it down over their eyes/face. That's why it seems Paul goes on in vs. 14 & 15 talking about men who have long hair, that it is a shame to them, but women who have long hair, that is a glory to her. And then there are the verses about women covering ... I really like the link that Zemirah posted ... though you will also find commentaries the write that the covering on the woman is symbolic of the husband's headship.

 

[Iollain]

Thanks very much for your answers, i think i understand now.

 

[Iollain]

Is this for today, and what about unmarried people?

It looks like a thing between woman and God, not woman and man, because women do not pray to men, they pray to God.

 

[MyLittleWonders]

Personally, I take it that it applies today. I tend to be covered most of my waking hours (though I'm not right now ). Sometimes I cover completely much like an Orthodox Jewish woman would. Sometimes I leave out my bangs. Sometimes I just use a capp or wide head band (usually when I'm just around the house though). I am not sure about the married/unmarried thing. I know Paul uses the analogy of G-d, Yeshua, man, woman - but this seems to be his way of reminding the Corinthians of the order of life, the order of Creation (man was created, then woman from man). I don't think, necessarily, that because of that only married women are to cover, but rather any woman of an age where she is accountable before G-d. We don't have daughters, but if we do someday, I will probably explain to her why I cover (as I will my sons) and help her pray about whether that is something G-d is wishing from her and when.

 

[1vel]

Good morning Ladies!

I've been thinking about this thread, and waiting to have something insightful to say; I don't, but I'm gonna talk anyway!

First; Thanks for the link Zemirah. It was wonderful to read a commentary that backs up my pov on the subject.

I cover. I came under conviction to do this shortly after we started observing the Sabbath day. I read and re read 1Cor11, and could come to no other conclusion thaI I should cover. I like the idea of Christ being the covering for us, though. My only question here is, then why would Paul have even brought it up?

I have a question:

1Cor 11v6: "For f the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn; but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

Does this mean that if I cut my hair short (it's shoulder length) that I do not need to cover?

v15: "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering"

I have to admit, I get a little hung up here. Is this saying that a woman should have long hair (if it is her glory), is the hair the hair the covering if it is long vs. short? Is it OK to cut our hair?

Thanks to all...

Blessings;

Vel

 

[ShirChadash]

Shalom, Vel

My understanding of the concept of "shorn" is that it referred to women of ill-repute... temple prostitute type persons, and it fully meant "shorn" as in completely shaved or shaved very close so as to possibly deceive about their gender. So this verse is saying, very literally that if a woman is not covered she might as well be shorn (and by this the Apostle sought to make comparison to the people reading his words -- evoking the connection to inappropriateness with regard to the shaved heads of the prostitutes):

1Cor 11: 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn; but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.


As for whether this is for today, as an earlier poster asked, of course I say, "Yes, it is." Those who say it was merely a "cultural" thing that is no longer valid for our culture... well what on earth is so good about our culture that we should thumb our noses at the established "good" the Bible tells us to practice, in favor of our culture's preference? No, if we want to claim G-d's Word is timeless, then the lessons we find in G-d's Word are timeless, and have no connection to "culture" nor can they be constrained by cultural limitations. Is it fun to look different from others? Nope. In this culture, we often draw MORE attention to ourselves, rather than less as one might hope, in dressing modestly and covering.

I have been covering for many years -- i forget the number. But for a while, in there, about mid-way through my time in covering, I stopped covering outside the house because I worried it would make others uncomfortable and that I would be less "approachable" because of it. But I was setting aside what I already knew to be the Truth (that it did make some other women a bit uncomfortable and not because of ME but because it allowed the Spirit to prick their hearts, but it made men much more polite and gentlemanly toward me -- the difference was astounding). Also, I set aside my remembrance of my previous covering experience of never getting any negative attitudes or unkind stares, but loads of positive comments and genuine questions. When I stopped covering outside the house -- out of a self-conscious fear of men instead of G-d -- He kindly brought a number of Hutterite, similar to Amish/Mennonite, women around me whenever I was out shopping and I saw so many women come up to them and touch their covers and compliment them, ask questions and smile. My daughter was with me one day and a Hutterite mom and daughter came into the fabric store we were in. The daughters of Hutterites cover even as young girls, and my daughter covered as well when I first came to covering. She wants to return to it now, as a matter of fact. Anyway, when I had stopped covering outside the home, my DD saw this mom and daughter and ran over to them and said, "we cover our heads too! Well, (feeling her uncovered hair) not right now, but sometimes we do!" Hmmmm. They pleasantly smiled, nodded their heads and went on their way, but what a witness that was to me.

I re-studied the Word, re-determined what I believe the Word tells me is appropriate for me in order to be suitably garbed for my status as a daughter of The King and a married-to-one-man woman, in this day and age. And I returned to covering my hair full-time. Recently, I have to say I got so busy and scattered for the first week of moving house that I stopped worrying about covering. And I didn't fret it at all, really. But about a week after we moved in, I felt the nudging of G-d's gentle Spirit convicting me to cover my lil head, and I wondered how the new people in my life would respond to me and whether it would be an issue. I did notice my new neighbor, whom I had only seen once or twice and uncovered of course, seemed to linger on my scarf a while with her eyes and I could see she was trying to determine just what that was all about... religion, style, ??

I worried a bit, but interestingly I always seem to forget I even have it on by the time I see new people in my day, and I just be *me*. And I can honestly say that never once in all these years of covering have I gotten a negative attitude about my headscarf/snood/cap (I used to wear a few cap-styles when I first covered). My Pastors always supported my covering (although one pastor's wife was not so positive, but she never openly said anything to me. Of course, she very much rules her roost and the churchm btu that's another story LOL...)

Anyway, I know I am rambling, but I wanted to share a bit about my journey. It isn't easy to begin covering. And at times along the way, it isn't always easy to KEEP covering. But one thing I have learned -- anytime something spiritual (and even things that seem merely physical actions, in this world, usually have some spiritual element connected to them) is very trying or difficult or seems unreasonable, it's often because it is something I am challenged to, for my own spiritual health and maturity, press through and "master", that I may grow.

Just my 2,376 cents' worth.

 

[Iollain]

THanks for the replies everyone, i've been looking all over CF and the internet to see what everyone thinks of covering, and i've read this passage at least 50 times in the last couple of days. I've started to cover in my private prayer times with God. I don't pray with DH because he is still a baby Christian, does not read the Written Word at all, but i'm praying for him, he is a sweetie otherwise. My mother-in-law and i were talking on Sunday and she said that every lady had hats on in the Baptist church up until they started to disappear in the 1960's, so i would imagine that women have always covered their heads before that.

I think the reason people are uncomfortable when you wear your covering out is because they do not know what the symbolism is. Up until a few days ago i thought only Muslims and the Mennonites/Amish covered their heads, and i always get mad when i see a Muslim woman wearing theirs because i associate it with the way they are treated sometimes. The Mennonites and Amish (i think that is what they are called) i associated just with old fashioned dressing. But the way Paul puts it in I Cor 11, sounds like this is between God and woman, more than man and woman, because we pray to God not our husbands. Though i do see the association with the husband and wife union in Christ too.

However i keep thinking of verses that are still bugging me they are:

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mar 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Now if the veil was ripped in two between man and God, i wonder if it is right to wear a covering sometimes.

 

[MyLittleWonders]

My understanding has always been that the veil in question was the veil in the temple between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies. Only the high priest was allowed inside the Holy of Holies, and only once a year on Yom Kippur (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) to atone for the sins of the people. When Yeshua died, the veil ripped because no longer was the high priest needed to enter, and no longer was everyone else secluded from the Holy of Holies - Yeshua was our high priest and it was through His blood that we were atoned for and given access to the Holy of Holies. But, I don't think that negates the verses from Paul about covering for prayer/prophecy/teaching ...

I can totally understand your searching for information/articles on covering ... when G-d convicted me of covering, I tried to find everything I could about it! May HaShem bless you in your desire to please Him!

 

[Henaynei]

the veil of the Temple was more analogous to a veil that covered HaShem's face - separating us from Him - this was torn

the "veil" to which the headcovering refers to a covering of submission to authority, or, when the tallit, closes HaShem IN with us in our portable "prayer closet", if you will, rather than closing us out, such as the Temple Veil.

b'Shalom
Henaynei

 

[Iollain]

Thanks for the posts That makes sence.