What does this button do?... Oh!

[fishfrenzy]

Hi all! As you can probably see, I'm an atheist. I don't believe in god. BUT, I'm what you call an Agnostic atheist, meaning that I don't think I have proof that there is no god.

The reason I'm joining is because I honestly want to know something: what reason is there to believe in god? Not your reasons, I'm looking for something to convince me that there is a god, and that you guys (christians in general) have got the right one.

I look forward to reading some good responses!

 

[Jesusizthe1]

Welcome to CF! I don't know that any explanation or reason I could give you would be sufficient to satisfy you, so I won't even try. Hope you enjoy your stay here.

 

[~A.Pure.Heart~]

Hi all! As you can probably see, I'm an atheist. I don't believe in god. BUT, I'm what you call an Agnostic atheist, meaning that I don't think I have proof that there is no god.

The reason I'm joining is because I honestly want to know something: what reason is there to believe in god? Not your reasons, I'm looking for something to convince me that there is a god, and that you guys (christians in general) have got the right one.

I look forward to reading some good responses!

There are many seekers on this site. But, everyone must find their own answers. Good luck finding yours.

But, this is not the forum to start a discussion like this. This is just a welcome to the forum, forum.

I'm sure if you look at the home page, (click on home at the top left corner) and scroll down, you'll be able to find what you're looking for.

Welcome to Christian Forums!

 

[Minty]

Hello and welcome to CF Lovely to meet you.


As to your question...well...I don't quite know what to say, really. :o

I think it is a matter of personal choice.

I cannot convince you there is a God just like you could not convince me that there isn't one (even if it could be proved that the Lord exists, there would always be someone that would not believe it).
To me, the fact that I'm sitting here and writing this to you proves God's existence to me (there is just too much uncertainty to explain it any other way).

I know that isn't exactly what you were looking for, but I think it is one of those 'if you believe you don't need proof, but if you don't you do' type questions. Sorry

Minty. xx

 

[ShyFlower]

Welcome to the forums

 

[SweetDaisyMae]

Welcome to Christian Forums!!

The Creation tells me there is a Holy God. That's just for a start.

 

[FaithfulWife]

Hi, welcome to Christian Forums! You've been blessed by a CF Angel.

My name is FaithfulWife and I'm glad you're here. This place can be big and confusing, so here are a few things that might help you:

To get blessings, you can go to the Blessings Exchange forum. We play games and take quizzes to earn blessings!

To get a character, Click Here or go to the top of the page sort of in the middle, and click on [Character]. You will need to select a body, hair, eyes, lips, and eyebrows/facial hair. I personally chose NOT to have a beard!
We also have two forums for some free clothes: Armory Giveaway for Newbies and Free Clothes for Newbies.

Finally, you might want to look in the Life Stages forums to find a group that fits you. I'm in the Women's Discussion, Parenting, and Marriage Ministry, and there's a life stage there to fit YOU!

If you have any newbie questions you can give me a Private Message (PM) anytime. Likewise if you would honestly like an answer to some of your questions I would be willing to talk via PM and tell you why I believe there is a God--or maybe we could start another thread for that discussion. Meanwhile right now...on this thread...let me welcome you!

 

[jessesgirl]

Thread moved to Questions by Non-Christans from New Member Intros. No clean up necessary. Thank you all and God bless you!

 

[zeke37]

when you find God (so to speak) it all makes sense...God's Spirit leads and wisdom is gained...the first step is to search....

Now I could go into detail about why I believe we are all here, if that is of interest to you.
if you wanna hear my opinion (educated I believe) I would be happy to give it.



for a starting point, read Psalm 22, written a 1000 years before Jesus' ministry. 1000 years.




in His service
c

 

[MrFreshdew]

hi fishfrenzy
ya have to hear God's word first
heres a scripture of His word for you
For the Son of man did not come to detroy men's lives but to save them-luke 9:56
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,that whoever believes in
Him should not perish but have eternal life-john 3:16
So then faith comes by hearing,and hearing by the word of God-romans 10:17
may Jesus open your heart and ears and eyes fishfrenzy so that u may see and hear and b delighted in your heart

 

[fishfrenzy]

Wow, sorry, but this site is a little strange to browse, and it's difficult at first to organize things. I intended to start a specific thread with the questions in my intro post, but I guess in my effort to state my reason for joining I inadvertently derailed my own intro thread. I suppose, since the thread is already moved, I might as well continue in the same vein.

Okay, thanks for the answers so far! It seems that the general consensus is that to be convinced of god's existence you first have to accept Jesus, and therefor god, into your heart. Isn't that a little circular?

 

[MrPolo]

I look forward to reading some good responses!

My 2 cents. By reason alone you have to at least admit to a 1st cause, correct?

If you are comparing Christianity to other major religions, consider how Christianity alone bears the witness of hundreds or thousands to the Resurrection of Christ. Compare that to other religions which tend toward an individual professing to transmit a message from God.

Have you ever read Thomas Aquinas? Or Socrates? Or Paschal's wager?

They could probably provide you more thorough responses that address all of your objections.

 

[fishfrenzy]

I don't see why reason should dictate a first cause. I don't see any reason why there must be a "beginning" to the universe, nor and end. Besides, by your own reasoning, wouldn't god himself need a first cause? Are you honestly going to try to tell me that somehow god came first? that he existed for untold eons before one day he decided to make a universe 6,000 years ago?

What hundreds or thousands attest to the resurrection? As far as I know there's only a few sources, and all of those entirely dependent on each other (in reference to the "gospels").

I have not read Aquinas, I have read extensively from Socrates' "works", and I am quite familiar with Pascal's Wager. So to return a question, from each with which I am familiar, is good good because your god said so, or is your god good because he does what is good? Pascal's postulate had four parts: God exists and you believe, god exists and you don't believe, god doesn't exist and you believe, and god doesn't exist and you don't believe. According to the Wager, you don't lose anything by worshiping god. But what god is the right one? Suddenly there aren't four basic options, there are hundreds of gods from whom to pick, and if you pick the wrong god, then you still go to hell. How can you be sure that you were born into the correct religion when so many people in other religions are just as sure? Are you confident enough to fly a plane into a building if you were sure your god demanded it? There most certainly are people who are that confident that their god is the right one.

Do you see my dilemma? Not do I have to look for proof of a god, but I also am stuck trying to figure out which one is the right one!

 

[Adstar]

Wow, sorry, but this site is a little strange to browse, and it's difficult at first to organize things. I intended to start a specific thread with the questions in my intro post, but I guess in my effort to state my reason for joining I inadvertently derailed my own intro thread. I suppose, since the thread is already moved, I might as well continue in the same vein.

Okay, thanks for the answers so far! It seems that the general consensus is that to be convinced of god's existence you first have to accept Jesus, and therefor god, into your heart. Isn't that a little circular?

[FONT=&quot]You where quoted scripture in an earlier reply that stated that faith comes from hearing the Word of God.

Jesus is also known as the Word of God. That is one of His titles like Messiah and Lord.

So it is not circular when it has a starting point of one hearing the Word of God. It is a message taken in its entirety that resonates within the very core of a person, With the prompting of the Holy Spirit the Word itself starts faith within one who hears it with an open and receptive mind.

It's up to each Seeker to make up their own minds if they will embrace the Word of God as loving wisdom beyond human conjuring or wether they will reject it as foolishness or injustice.

So if your interested the best advice i could give you is to read the gospel and the letters of the apostles.

You can ask us about specific occurrences or teachings within the Word but in the end it is the action of the Holy Spirit upon the conscience of a conscientious person that brings one to understand that God is and His will is expressed through the Word of God, Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]

 

[Adstar]

I don't see why reason should dictate a first cause. I don't see any reason why there must be a "beginning" to the universe, nor and end. Besides, by your own reasoning, wouldn't god himself need a first cause? Are you honestly going to try to tell me that somehow god came first? that he existed for untold eons before one day he decided to make a universe 6,000 years ago?

What hundreds or thousands attest to the resurrection? As far as I know there's only a few sources, and all of those entirely dependent on each other (in reference to the "gospels").

I have not read Aquinas, I have read extensively from Socrates' "works", and I am quite familiar with Pascal's Wager. So to return a question, from each with which I am familiar, is good good because your god said so, or is your god good because he does what is good? Pascal's postulate had four parts: God exists and you believe, god exists and you don't believe, god doesn't exist and you believe, and god doesn't exist and you don't believe. According to the Wager, you don't lose anything by worshiping god. But what god is the right one? Suddenly there aren't four basic options, there are hundreds of gods from whom to pick, and if you pick the wrong god, then you still go to hell. How can you be sure that you were born into the correct religion when so many people in other religions are just as sure? Are you confident enough to fly a plane into a building if you were sure your god demanded it? There most certainly are people who are that confident that their god is the right one.

Do you see my dilemma? Not do I have to look for proof of a god, but I also am stuck trying to figure out which one is the right one!

[FONT=&quot]
I see you biggest dilemma is lack of control over the situation.

If there is a God and if that God has not determined that you will be kept from the ability to accept His will. The you must in the end rely on Him to give you the information you need to accept His will and have eternity with Him.

Now this is where one has to give up their control over the situation and truly ask God to lead them to where He wants them to be, in relation to a relationship with Him.

Now this takes something called meekness towards God. This is hard when you see God as being something like a space alien more advanced than us and very powerful but deep down just a being like us capable of corruption and backstabbing and so forth. What one must realise is that God is not just another being. If there is a God (and of course i believe there is) He is a cut above us, He is in a totally different and higher sphere of existence.

So if God is God think of Him as a God and approach Him accordingly. Don't just think of Him like a powerful earthly ruler.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days [/FONT]

 

[fishfrenzy]

Adstar, in regards to your first post, you say that the beginning is hearing the word of god found in the bible. The question then becomes "Why should the bible be taken as the true word of god?" From what I've read - and I have read it, several times - the only answers can come in the form of "The bible is the word of god because god says so right here in the bible," and "Because I accepted god as the word," which leads back to the question "How do we know god?" This, of course, can be answered by
"We know god from his word and through Jesus, whom we know of through the witness of the bible." It's like trying to solve a Samurai Sudoku when you're really stuck ( I love these: [would have posted samurai-sudoku .com, but apparently I don't have enough posts for that] ) - you end up wishing for just one more piece of vital information, or one angle that just isn't there. Just one piece of evidence.

In regards to your second post, how can we know god separate from the scriptures? You could say that we can know him by looking at his creation (I think someone said that above), but what does that tell us? It certainly wouldn't tell us about Jesus - not even if you count vague silhouettes on cheese sandwiches or tortillas. We are once again left depending on the bible, which we are told in the bible was divinely inspired. So then what?

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, in regards to your first post, you say that the beginning is hearing the word of god found in the bible. The question then becomes "Why should the bible be taken as the true word of god?" From what I've read - and I have read it, several times - the only answers can come in the form of "The bible is the word of god because god says so right here in the bible," and "Because I accepted god as the word,"

Yes i think you stated something like this before. So i already know your thinking so there is no point in repeating it. You say you have read it several times. And it seems the message of the Bible has not resonated within you. So be it. But the answer that has been given is truly the only answer that can be given to you. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God.

Now since you have heard the Word of God and you do not accept it as the Word of God then maybe you have already resisted and rejected the work of the Holy Spirit. If that is the case then there might not be much hope for you, other than a complete change of heart, The Word of God says that God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.

which leads back to the question "How do we know god?"
This, of course, can be answered by
"We know god from his word and through Jesus, whom we know of through the witness of the bible." It's like trying to solve a Samurai Sudoku when you're really stuck ( I love these: [would have posted samurai-sudoku .com, but apparently I don't have enough posts for that] ) - you end up wishing for just one more piece of vital information, or one angle that just isn't there. Just one piece of evidence.

Maybe your looking for Proof.... So that you can come to God without needing any element of faith/trust. Maybe your looking for an argument that can totally destroy any logical resistance to belief in God and acceptance of the Messiah Jesus as His Word?

It it clear to me that God has made Himself a deniable reality. That God uses the Word of God to attract the meek and repel the proud. Paul stated that some see the Gospel as foolishness and others as a stumbling stone/blasphemy. While to others it is the wonderful message of Gods forgiveness for them. Does God want to spend eternity with those who think He is a fool?

In regards to your second post, how can we know god separate from the scriptures?

You have stated twice the term "know god"

If you read the bible and understood it, then you would know that no one who believes the Word of God believes that one can know God.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
1 Corinthians 13

9
For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

The only things we can know about God is what He wills us to know about God.

You could say that we can know him by looking at his creation (I think someone said that above), but what does that tell us?
It certainly wouldn't tell us about Jesus

I have never stated that creation confirms Jesus as the Messiah.

- not even if you count vague silhouettes on cheese sandwiches or tortillas.

I have never stated that my Belief in Jesus was based on vague silhouettes on cheese sandwiches or tortillas. I stated that true Faith was based on hearing the Word of God.

We are once again left depending on the bible, which we are told in the bible was divinely inspired. So then what?

If the Word of God does not resonate within you then all i can advise is that you do some soul searching and start seeking out yourself. Maybe you will see yourself and understand that you need to seek again with an open mind willing to trust not a critical mind seeking a chance for plausible denial.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[fishfrenzy]

So to sum up, you say there is no reason to believe in god other than the bible, correct? In order to believe in god, the holy spirit, in which by extension I also do not believe, has to work a change in my heart. But, for all this to work I have to be receptive of these changes, right?

 

[Adstar]

[FONT=&quot]

So to sum up, you say there is no reason to believe in god other than the bible, correct?

Belief in the one and only God. the God of Abraham yes. Of course untold billions have believed that gods exist without reading the Word of God. But it is the Word of God that leads on to have faith in the God of Abraham and the Work of the Messiah Jesus.

I hope that clarifies things a bit.

In order to believe in god, the holy spirit, in which by extension I also do not believe, has to work a change in my heart. But, for all this to work I have to be receptive of these changes, right?

I believe the Holy Spirit can bring conviction to ones conscience but i also believe that people have the ability to resist these convictions just as a child learns to suppress their conscience to allow them to lie cheat and steel. Humans shout down their consciences to obtain the advantages that the knowledge of sin offers them in this world. I believe the Holy Spirit can revive ones conscience to give it strength to call out to one again, but just as before one who deep down seeks after the advantages of sin will one again struggle to ignore and shout down their consciences again.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]

 

[fishfrenzy]

I've never quite understood why billions of people believing in gods without ever having read about the Jewish god is such a shining commendation for christianity. How does (for example) Aphrodite relate to Yahweh? Yes, I know Solomon wrote about some heavy petting, but 2 out of 10 of your commandments (the most popular 10, anyways) have to do with restricting sex and sexual fantasies. What about gods that told people to eat other people? that demand human sacrifices? How are these indications of the significance of your own personal favorite? If anything the extreme variety of gods, not to mention the even more distinctly pronounced pantheon of Jewish, Christian and Islamic sects, indicate a wild, flailing, misguided search for the answers to the questions that researchers using scientific methods are finally answering.