what does my friend mean - responding to my post about singer George Michael

[Hannah66]

i'm part Greek and always appreciated the music of George Michael, a Greek English man,
who died some years ago.

I posted a song i like on Facebook and my christian friend told me that he was a
homosexual that never repented and loved his lifestyle.

I told her, I knew this, but was purely just sharing a song I liked

I reminded her that Jesus had died for him.

This was her reply:-

Well the Lord Jesus only died for those the Father has given to Him, not everyone, He does declare to everyone, every where, to repent, but so many are happy and content to rebel against and disobey Almighty God. So sad for them. If only they knew how awesome is God's mercy and Love.

 

[Sketcher]

John 3:16 is an open invitation for everyone. It doesn't mean that George Michael took it, though.

It is wrong to say that Jesus didn't die for George Michael.
It is also wrong to say that George Michael went to Heaven if he didn't repent.

 

[sandman]

First - Anybody who makes the assessment of whether someone did or didn't accept Jesus ......unless they are getting direct revelation from God ..........are wrong.
Nobody knows what someone in their private life has done...from starting from a child to when the die ....who knows that..... but God.

Secondly - What you listen to is your business. Some things are more edifying than others, but if you enjoy it ...don't let what others say influence you....whether it's the music you listen to, the cloths you wear, or the food you eat ....you will never be able to please everybody ....just seek to please God and you'll be good

 

[A_Thinker]

i'm part Greek and always appreciated the music of George Michael, a Greek English man,
who died some years ago.

I posted a song i like on Facebook and my christian friend told me that he was a
homosexual that never repented and loved his lifestyle.

I told her, I knew this, but was purely just sharing a song I liked

I reminded her that Jesus had died for him.

This was her reply:-

Well the Lord Jesus only died for those the Father has given to Him, not everyone, He does declare to everyone, every where, to repent, but so many are happy and content to rebel against and disobey Almighty God. So sad for them. If only they knew how awesome is God's mercy and Love.

Salvation is an issue of the heart. Noone knows where George Michael's heart was at the time of his death.

I liked what I knew of George Michael's music. People can be so beautiful in so many ways. We just need to understand our need for God. Not all of us do.

I'm sure that those who knew the thief on the cross would have thought that he was lost also. God gives everyone adequate opportunity to be saved.

 

[ViaCrucis]

i'm part Greek and always appreciated the music of George Michael, a Greek English man,
who died some years ago.

I posted a song i like on Facebook and my christian friend told me that he was a
homosexual that never repented and loved his lifestyle.

I told her, I knew this, but was purely just sharing a song I liked

I reminded her that Jesus had died for him.

This was her reply:-

Well the Lord Jesus only died for those the Father has given to Him, not everyone, He does declare to everyone, every where, to repent, but so many are happy and content to rebel against and disobey Almighty God. So sad for them. If only they knew how awesome is God's mercy and Love.

The mainstream, majority Christian view throughout history has been that Jesus Christ died for everyone--no exceptions.

Within Protestant Christianity (Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Non-Denominational Churches, etc) there are roughly three main views: Lutheran, Calvinist, and Arminian.

Without getting too into it, and noting that this is going to be an extreme over-simplification, these three major theological divisions of Protestant Christianity can roughly be summarized as follows:

Lutheran: The Lutheran view is sometimes called "Universal Atonement". Keep in mind, this is not "Universalism". Universalism is an entirely different thing that says everyone will be saved. Universal Atonement means, simply, Jesus died for everyone. Looking to the Scriptures that say, for example, that Christ's work has brought justification to all (Romans 5:18), that Christ suffered death for everyone (Hebrews 2:9), and that God is the Savior of all human beings (1 Timothy 4:10). Ergo the death Christ died He died for all, everyone. He did not die only for the elect, and it is not conditional.

Calvinism: The Calvinist view is that Christ died only for the elect, those whom God by His sovereign decree unconditionally predestined to salvation. Since God predestined who would believe, Christ only died for these. This is an unconditional election,God chose who would be saved based purely on His own sovereign choice. This view is traditionally known as "Limited Atonement" as Christ's atoning work is limited only for those whom God has unconditionally elected and predestined for salvation.

Arminianism: The Arminian view is that Christ's atoning work is unlimited and conditional; it is called "Unlimited Atonement" because Christ's atonement can apply to anyone. God, in His foreknowledge, knew who would receive faith and believe; and thus all who would come to believe in Jesus are the elect, and Christ's atonement applies to these. Election, therefore, is conditional because who is elect is conditioned on their own choice to believe and come to Jesus in faith.

As I noted earlier, I'm painting with very broad strokes to sketch a brief summary. Lots of Protestant Christians from various denominations and traditions have views that probably incorporate elements from all three to various and varying degrees.

And note, I've only addressed Protestantism, there are also the views of the Eastern (Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox) and also other Western Churches (Roman Catholic) that would need to also be considered and looked at for a much fuller picture of Christian thought on the subject.

So, with that said, what do I believe about Jesus' atoning work and George Michael? Jesus Christ died for everyone--no exceptions. What is the fate of George Michael? I have no idea. That's not my business, but my hope and prayer for him, as all other human beings, is that they be saved and found with the Lord. Judgement belongs to God alone, our job is to be Christians and for the Church to be the Church: Confessing the faith which we have received from the beginning, proclaiming the word, receiving the precious gifts of God's word and Sacraments, loving our neighbor, committing ourselves to lives of contrition, repentance, humility, love, and good works toward our fellow man.

With all the things in life and the world at large to actually care about, why would someone waste precious moments of their life to choose to be offended by someone listening to a George Michael song and posting it on Facebook? I can't think of many things more spiritually vapid and lazy than that kind of moralistic micro-managing that some people engage in.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[rturner76]

So sayeth the @sandman

I feel the same way about us thinking we know another's heart. It makes people feel good to think they are part of the "In crowd" (I don't know what they call it now) but the in-crowd is on Earth is not the in-crowd in heaven I'm reminded of "the first shall be last and the last shall be first."

George Michael wasn't known for hurting people. He had a personal identity that was known between him and God and nobody knows how he felt about it in his innermost being.

While we judge someone we are being judged. It reminds me of a lyric in another song "The prettiest people do the ugliest things." Still, I remember being young and knowing everything. As people get older, hopefully, they see more of the gray areas in life.

You can always ask people who judge others if they are ready to cast the first stone.

 

[disciple Clint]

The mainstream, majority Christian view throughout history has been that Jesus Christ died for everyone--no exceptions.

Within Protestant Christianity (Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Non-Denominational Churches, etc) there are roughly three main views: Lutheran, Calvinist, and Arminian.

Without getting too into it, and noting that this is going to be an extreme over-simplification, these three major theological divisions of Protestant Christianity can roughly be summarized as follows:

Lutheran: The Lutheran view is sometimes called "Universal Atonement". Keep in mind, this is not "Universalism". Universalism is an entirely different thing that says everyone will be saved. Universal Atonement means, simply, Jesus died for everyone. Looking to the Scriptures that say, for example, that Christ's work has brought justification to all (Romans 5:18), that Christ suffered death for everyone (Hebrews 2:9), and that God is the Savior of all human beings (1 Timothy 4:10). Ergo the death Christ died He died for all, everyone. He did not die only for the elect, and it is not conditional.

Calvinism: The Calvinist view is that Christ died only for the elect, those whom God by His sovereign decree unconditionally predestined to salvation. Since God predestined who would believe, Christ only died for these. This is an unconditional election,God chose who would be saved based purely on His own sovereign choice. This view is traditionally known as "Limited Atonement" as Christ's atoning work is limited only for those whom God has unconditionally elected and predestined for salvation.

Arminianism: The Arminian view is that Christ's atoning work is unlimited and conditional; it is called "Unlimited Atonement" because Christ's atonement can apply to anyone. God, in His foreknowledge, knew who would receive faith and believe; and thus all who would come to believe in Jesus are the elect, and Christ's atonement applies to these. Election, therefore, is conditional because who is elect is conditioned on their own choice to believe and come to Jesus in faith.

As I noted earlier, I'm painting with very broad strokes to sketch a brief summary. Lots of Protestant Christians from various denominations and traditions have views that probably incorporate elements from all three to various and varying degrees.

And note, I've only addressed Protestantism, there are also the views of the Eastern (Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox) and also other Western Churches (Roman Catholic) that would need to also be considered and looked at for a much fuller picture of Christian thought on the subject.

So, with that said, what do I believe about Jesus' atoning work and George Michael? Jesus Christ died for everyone--no exceptions. What is the fate of George Michael? I have no idea. That's not my business, but my hope and prayer for him, as all other human beings, is that they be saved and found with the Lord. Judgement belongs to God alone, our job is to be Christians and for the Church to be the Church: Confessing the faith which we have received from the beginning, proclaiming the word, receiving the precious gifts of God's word and Sacraments, loving our neighbor, committing ourselves to lives of contrition, repentance, humility, love, and good works toward our fellow man.

With all the things in life and the world at large to actually care about, why would someone waste precious moments of their life to choose to be offended by someone listening to a George Michael song and posting it on Facebook? I can't think of many things more spiritually vapid and lazy than that kind of moralistic micro-managing that some people engage in.

-CryptoLutheran

Excellent post as usual, and accurate from a theological standpoint, love your posts.

 

[aiki]

i'm part Greek and always appreciated the music of George Michael, a Greek English man,
who died some years ago.

I posted a song i like on Facebook and my christian friend told me that he was a
homosexual that never repented and loved his lifestyle.

I told her, I knew this, but was purely just sharing a song I liked

I reminded her that Jesus had died for him.

This was her reply:-

Well the Lord Jesus only died for those the Father has given to Him, not everyone, He does declare to everyone, every where, to repent, but so many are happy and content to rebel against and disobey Almighty God. So sad for them. If only they knew how awesome is God's mercy and Love.

The Bible warns:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

God's word also warns us that our repeated choice to live in rebellion toward God and in the darkness of sin has a hardening effect that also blinds and deafens the sinner to the light and truth of the Gospel. The longer a person dwells in rebellion and wickedness, the less able they are to turn to Christ, hardened as they are in their willful rejection of him.

The Terrible Cost Of Sin.

It is very...unbiblical for Christians to think that after a life of willful rebellion toward God that a hardened sinner will throw off all of what they have chosen again and again and repent. Did Pharaoh repent? No. Did Jezebel repent? No. Did King Saul repent? No. Do the majority who travel the Broad Way to eternal destruction repent? Not according to Jesus. The typical scenario is that God gives the wicked over to the wickedness they choose to be destroyed by it (Romans 1:18-32). There are exceptions, perhaps, but the rule is that a willful persistence in sin binds, hardens, and blinds a person to the way of salvation.

It is not wrong, then, to say that George Michael met a wrathful Judge, not his heavenly Father, when he died (John 3:36). He was the very picture of Romans 1:18-22. There is nothing from his life that offers any grounds to think he was saved in the last moments of his life but plenty that warrants thinking he died unrepentant in his sin.

In any event, the idea that Jesus died only for a select few is confounded repeatedly by Scripture:

Acts 17:30
30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:16-17
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

Hebrews 9:11-12
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

And so on.

www.soteriology101.com