What does it mean to be saved?

[2PhiloVoid]

What type of mistakes do you speak of that saved people never make?

Maybe re-read what I just wrote in my previous post to you, because what I previously wrote would essentially preclude this question of yours.

 

[Ken-1122]

yes

The person can be culturally moral, but becoming saved brings character change which is produced by God.

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

Jesus changes us so we have rest in our souls . . . because of how we are strong against fear and stress and anger and bitterness and unforgiveness and being dominated by pleasure drives and demands. But people can be humanly moral, but not deeply sound in Christ's rest which is supernatural and not only a product of changing my thinking and circumstances.

For a while, I was religious and did whatever I understood I was supposed to do. But I was a wreck in worry. And I didn't have a clue how to relate with people and feel for people. But I was moral and "nice". But deeply I could be building rage for months before it all exploded out at once. I did not have the peace almighty of God to keep me.

Once a person is saved, he or she can start to live and develop in God's peace.

So are you saying the saved has an inner peace the unsaved do not have? Do some saved have turmoil in their lives?
Also if a person is trusting in Jesus for a while thus saved, then for whatever reason he quits trusting in Jesus, does he become unsaved? Or is he still saved.

 

[Ken-1122]

Maybe re-read what I just wrote in my previous post to you, because what I previously wrote would essentially preclude this question of yours.

You admitted the saved do make mistakes, but then you pointed out there are different kinds of mistakes and different intensities of mistakes. This gave me the impression that the type of mistakes the saved make are different than those mistakes the unsaved make. I was asking you what the difference are.

 

[com7fy8]

So are you saying the saved has an inner peace the unsaved do not have?

yes

Actually, I should say we can have, but we also can get away.

And this peace which we can have is not possible for an unsaved person. Only through Jesus can we be with God > Jesus says >

I am the way, the truth, and the life; no comes to the Father except through Me." (in John 14:6)

But we need correction by God so we live in His peace.

You can read Hebrews 12:4-14, if you would, first, about what God's correction does. No human can do the correction which changes our character so we are sharing with God and submissive to God in His own peace. And this starts through Jesus, and trusting in Christ > Ephesians 1:12 > for salvation, in order to get started in this.

So > what I offer is no one gets into real peace without major correction, including how Jesus means for us to deny ourselves > Luke 9:23.

So, this peace is not only about changing our circumstances and deciding to see things differently. Someone unsaved can reform a thing or two and feel better; also a saved person can do a do-it-yourself thing or two, and feel nicer, but this does not change someone's character to be deeply strong in God's almighty peace which "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:6-7)

But real peace comes with submitting to God, actively seeking how He is able to correct us, then being submissive to how He personally rules us in His own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Unsaved people to not actively submit to howsoever God pleases to rule us, at any moment, in His own peace. And saved people have our ways of letting our attention go elsewhere. And we suffer because of this. But our basic calling > "called in one body" > is to always be with God in His peace and how He rules us in His own peace.

And Jesus Christ the Lord of all, then, personally rules us who obey Him in this peace . . . while unsaved people are ruled by how circumstances effect and control them and how >

"God resists the proud" (in James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5).

And we see how peaceful people can be while being dependent on how circumstances go . . . not exactly peaceful. However, saved people can also be emotionally and spiritually under the power of circumstances, but we can tend to know we need to not stay this way; we can get frustrated, stressed, even nasty angry reacting and unforgiving, but we know better. Because we know how Jesus guarantees us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) while we obey Him, and we know how Jesus wants us to forgive and not try to possess and control people; so when we get away from loving, we tend to get homesick to be back in the loving and peace we know we can have with God and one another . . . while unsaved people can fight things or just try to get back to how they can selfishly make things work.

 

[com7fy8]

Do some saved have turmoil in their lives?

I might have answered this in the post above. Yes, we can have turmoil; but like I say, we know better and have had experience with love and peace with God; so when we get away from this, we can get homesick.

But an unsaved person has only had experience with how he or she can have things going his or her own way; so when things mess with that, the unsaved person can only focus on how he or she is not getting those things of this life. And that can be devastating, since such a person's pleasures and security in this life are all the person knows.

But if we have shared with God in His love, we know how this love does us so much more good than any amount of human companionship and intimacy and employment and food and security has ever done us. So, it all can even turn upside-down or we can lose it all, and still be with God and enjoy loving any and all people, whoever we have around us.

The unsaved reaction is to panic or try to take control.

The saved reaction is to stop and submit to God and maybe ask, "What do You want me to do?" And be ready to do what is all-loving, not only about ourselves and ones we might hope to use for what we want.

"For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

So, our peace is in a package deal with being all-loving, and not giving up on anyone. If this is our reaction to a problem with someone > praying with hope for a person who is trouble, and loving the person > this helps us to keep on in peace.

But the unsaved way of relating is to treat people like an object to use, or an obstacle just to get out of the way.

But our Creator's love makes us creative with any and all people.

 

[com7fy8]

Also if a person is trusting in Jesus for a while thus saved, then for whatever reason he quits trusting in Jesus, does he become unsaved? Or is he still saved.

Well, if God has changed a person to trust Jesus, there has been a major character change in the person. So, my opinion is the person can't go all the way back to Satan and sin. But we can fail to a certain extent, but start realizing we are getting away from how we can be with God in His peace, and we get homesick to be loving like we know we can.

And, like I offered > Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees how our Heavenly Father corrects His children.

So, I don't think a saved person can totally give up on Jesus. And I don't think a saved person can stop walking with Him and stay this way for the rest of the person's life. Or else, this would mean God has not corrected the person. And I believe Hebrews 12:8 says something about someone who is not corrected by God.

So, I know ones who claim to be Christians and they live horribly; so I don't buy that they are; yet, I pray for them and have hope for them, knowing God is able to do whatever He knows each one needs. And if someone was seeming to be actively serving God, but then seems to stop, I don't assume they did a fake salvation thing; but I pray with hope for them.

And when I have messed up so I was in question about who I really am with God, I have trusted Him to be the Good Judge about what to do with me. And one thing which has helped is to forgive a lot of people And then could be when I would feel forgiven and get into loving people and thanking God for having mercy on me . . . by not leaving me in my mess, and getting me into loving, instead.

 

[ChetSinger]

I suspect there might be various interpretations depending on denominations and if so, I was hoping I could get various perspectives of what it means to be saved

Regarding how we are saved, when I first became a Christian I was shown these passages from Paul's letter to the Roman church, which I still return to:

...because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

And what are we saved from? Death. We receive "eternal life", perhaps more literally translated as "life through the ages".

 

[Broken Fence]

I suspect there might be various interpretations depending on denominations and if so, I was hoping I could get various perspectives of what it means to be saved

Ask Jesus into your heart. Believe Jesus. That He is Son of God, that God raised Him from the grave. He died for your sins, was raised for your justification.

 

[Broken Fence]

So if a person is raised in a Christian family were from birth he is taught to trust in all that Jesus did from the time he is capable of understanding, he has never been under the power of Satan and always try to be as good of a person as he can be, would it be fair to say this person was never unsaved thus always saved?

Jesus stands knocking at your heart. Have you ever asked Him into your heart?

 

[Broken Fence]

When God teaches to do good works in obedience to his law, how does God teach people? Through visions? Dreams? Does he send representatives to teach? How does God teach? At what point during these teachings does one become saved? If you are already being the best you can be, does anything about you change when you become saved?

Through His Holy Spirit.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You admitted the saved do make mistakes, but then you pointed out there are different kinds of mistakes and different intensities of mistakes. This gave me the impression that the type of mistakes the saved make are different than those mistakes the unsaved make. I was asking you what the difference are.

 

[Ken-1122]

yes

Actually, I should say we can have, but we also can get away.

And this peace which we can have is not possible for an unsaved person. Only through Jesus can we be with God > Jesus says >

I am the way, the truth, and the life; no comes to the Father except through Me." (in John 14:6)

But we need correction by God so we live in His peace.

You can read Hebrews 12:4-14, if you would, first, about what God's correction does. No human can do the correction which changes our character so we are sharing with God and submissive to God in His own peace. And this starts through Jesus, and trusting in Christ > Ephesians 1:12 > for salvation, in order to get started in this.

So > what I offer is no one gets into real peace without major correction, including how Jesus means for us to deny ourselves > Luke 9:23.

So, this peace is not only about changing our circumstances and deciding to see things differently. Someone unsaved can reform a thing or two and feel better; also a saved person can do a do-it-yourself thing or two, and feel nicer, but this does not change someone's character to be deeply strong in God's almighty peace which "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:6-7)

But real peace comes with submitting to God, actively seeking how He is able to correct us, then being submissive to how He personally rules us in His own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Unsaved people to not actively submit to howsoever God pleases to rule us, at any moment, in His own peace. And saved people have our ways of letting our attention go elsewhere. And we suffer because of this. But our basic calling > "called in one body" > is to always be with God in His peace and how He rules us in His own peace.

And Jesus Christ the Lord of all, then, personally rules us who obey Him in this peace . . . while unsaved people are ruled by how circumstances effect and control them and how >

"God resists the proud" (in James 4:6 and 1 Peter 5:5).

And we see how peaceful people can be while being dependent on how circumstances go . . . not exactly peaceful. However, saved people can also be emotionally and spiritually under the power of circumstances, but we can tend to know we need to not stay this way; we can get frustrated, stressed, even nasty angry reacting and unforgiving, but we know better. Because we know how Jesus guarantees us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) while we obey Him, and we know how Jesus wants us to forgive and not try to possess and control people; so when we get away from loving, we tend to get homesick to be back in the loving and peace we know we can have with God and one another . . . while unsaved people can fight things or just try to get back to how they can selfishly make things work.

So if I understand you correctly, when God saves you he gives you an inner peace, and even though there may be turmoil in your life, it won’t be as bad as before God gave you the inner peace. Is this correct? And when you become saved is more so when God saves you rather than you doing something to become saved; is that correct?

 

[com7fy8]

So if I understand you correctly, when God saves you he gives you an inner peace, and even though there may be turmoil in your life, it won’t be as bad as before God gave you the inner peace. Is this correct?

I would say, very good understanding on your part.

And as we grow in Jesus, we become stronger in this peace.

This peace helps to protect us from inner turmoil.

But, also, God's peace is His own harmony of how He is and does things and His ways. So, in this peace we are personally sharing with God Himself, in His own creativity for how to love each and every person. So, this peace is not only defensive, but creative. And His personal guiding in His peace will have us coordinated with all He knows is going on around us, including how He knows each person really is. So, in this peace we have very important help, being reliably guided about if and how to trust each person!

And when you become saved is more so when God saves you rather than you doing something to become saved; is that correct?

Yes, God does the saving.

But God is our Father and "God is love" (in 1 John 4:8&16). So, God has us sharing in the process. He does have a person doing things, while God is preparing a person to trust in Christ, and while the person is actively coming to trust in Jesus.

And in this process there can be very creative things going on, including what the person being saved does. There is seeking the right people to talk to, praying for God's help, reading the Bible and exploring various other writings. And when someone trusts in Jesus, the person can be talking with someone who helps him or her with this; there can be saying a prayer; there can be telling others present, how the person has decided to get saved and follow Jesus. Also, the person can communicate with Jesus, while the person is alone, then meet with people, about this, later.

Oh-h-h > preaching the Gospel is definitely included.

 

[ximmix]

saved from our sins

saved from God's wrath

saved from suffering in fear and other anti-love chaos in us

saved from my self's character which makes me able to live in sin and stay weak enough to give in to selfish pleasure seeking and therefore also be weak enough to suffer in spiritual and emotional and mental chaos

How does it work? if you 're saved, is it for life (and presumably afterlife)? Or, if you sin again, are you then un-saved? I suppose you can repent over and over again, and God will have patience...

Edied to add: I suppose saved means having Faith in Christ, regardless of your sins, very convenient.

 

[com7fy8]

How does it work? if you 're saved, is it for life (and presumably afterlife)?

yes, for eternity

Or, if you sin again, are you then un-saved?

I understand and trust that Biblical salvation starts with trusting in Jesus, and Jesus changes us from how we have been sinning. But then we keep getting more and more character correction > Hebrews 12:4-14, 1 John 4:17. So, we might still sin, but how we sin develops, and what we have for standards gets higher > for only one example >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," (in Philippians 2:13-16)

So, while I might not do some of the more obvious sins, still I need to deal with arguing and complaining which also are anti-love and very destructive and abusive examples to children so children can grow up not knowing how to love.

So, like I offer, the standard gets higher. And I take more and more responsibility for being a good example. I am not just free to do what I want while I avoid doing a few no-no's.

I suppose you can repent over and over again, and God will have patience...

Well, yes God loves us unconditionally and He so generously forgives us, but this is our example required also of us. So, not only must I stop my sinning, but then God expects me also to unconditionally and generously forgive others >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, and offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

"forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you" (in Ephesians 4:31-32)

Edied to add: I suppose saved means having Faith in Christ, regardless of your sins, very convenient.

I think you can see, from what I have offered above, it is not convenient

But we are required to stop the more obvious sinning, and raise the standard and also follow our Father's example of how to love and forgive. And in trusting in Jesus, this comes. Because God loves us, He does not just let us keep on sinning, but He deeply corrects us in our character, as I offer Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees. And this scripture to me clearly means we need to actively seek God for this real and deep correction. So, trusting Jesus includes actively seeking Him for real correction.

And therefore, in order to stay clear of this, there are people who treat Christianity like an intellectual issue, and ones give and call much or all attention to doctrinal and theoretical issues. So, part of functioning as a Christian includes how I need to keep attention to how God has me becoming in my character so I can love the way Jesus wants. You might note how in the Sermon on the Mount the first thing Jesus talks about is how to be > "poor in spirit". And then He talks about . . . how to be > "merciful", "meek", and "pure in heart". This means how Jesus is. This is basic, so we can do what God says, the way He means.

What is convenient is to keep attention elsewhere. But with Jesus and real correction "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30) So, people sinning are not getting away with anything. We are missing out on how we could be loving with God and as family with others in Christ.

Each of us is reaping emotionally and spiritually according to however we have been sowing > Galatians 6:7-8.

 

[ximmix]

stop the more obvious sinning

Is there a scale to sinning? Do all Christians get one printed out so they know what sin is ok?

You might note how in the Sermon on the Mount

A bit off topic I know but I've always been curious. Who recorded the word of Jesus on the Mount, was there someone beside him writing it all down? I mean it is very long and very important word for word for Christians, so it can't just have been someone standing by remembering things, and then telling his son and so on. Always found that curious. Sorry for going OT.

 

[com7fy8]

the more obvious sins

Is there a scale to sinning? Do all Christians get one printed out so they know what sin is ok?

Note how I said "obvious" . . . not worse or more or less acceptable.

I mean, for example, how most people know it's "obvious" that God's word says not to murder or commit adultery.

Also, yes there are sins which I would say are considered to be worse than others. Looking too much at a woman for a few seconds before I stop would not be so bad as hunting her down and raping her. And after I gave in for a few moments, I can pray and then have a good conversation with her.

But there are sins which can pave the way to much more trouble. I think we know about some number of cases when arguing has led the way to much worse stuff.

So, my working theory is that there can be what are smaller sins, but they can help to bring a person into much bigger trouble. And I think there are what we could call maintenance sins which help to keep us weak so later we can be weak enough to give in to much more wrong things, and weakness for sinful pleasures can also be weakness for suffering a lot of pain.

And Jesus says if we don't forgive, we are not forgiven. So, unforgiveness can be a major problem, including also of course how it can keep a person weak and degraded so he or she can not love the way which could be so good.

So, if my character is corrupt so I can give in to a small item, I could also be weak enough to give in to much worse stuff. So, it isn't really about the greatness of the sins, but about the character making someone able to do wrong stuff. This is why Jesus starts with how to be, I would say, in the Sermon on the Mount. No amount of changing behavior can really work, unless my character is changing.

While I was a religious practicer, I deeply could be building up anger, and after months I could just explode and be violent. And while I was racing to get to college courses on time, fearing that I would sin by wasting class time by being late, I could justify speeding around a curve where children were waiting for their school bus. So, I was that dangerous, and not having the character to care about those children more than I cared my reputation with my college professor.

And yeah, one day it seems they had an officer hiding to catch me in the act. And he got me. And it was raining; so I stood out in the rain by my car so he would have sympathy for me and let me off. So, that was how much of a jerk I was . . . right while doing all I could not to do the "obvious" sins . . . the ones listed in our Sunday School class. And yes I was thinking that I was risking killing or crippling kids by driving like that > thinking that, but still doing it.

 

[ximmix]

oops . . . I posted the quotes without my comments; please check back . . .

I can already guess, the sins that people do everyday are not so obvious because people ignore them. have you coveted lately?

 

[com7fy8]

I can already guess, the sins that people do everyday are not so obvious because people ignore them. have you coveted lately?

This improves on what I meant by "obvious" sins.

Arguing would be another one which goes below the radar.

But God's word does not ignore this >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (in Philippians 2:13-16)

So @Ken-1122 >

Being saved, I would say, includes how we have gotten with God so He will be correcting us, and He won't forget sins which have become covered up, even in church culture.

Who recorded the word of Jesus on the Mount,

Like I have offered, God can remember what we might conveniently forget. He could have a writer remember.

I am now thinking . . . for an idea > Jesus gave that message, but then He spent personal quality time with the disciples. So, not only could the Holy Spirit have some one writer remember it all, but Jesus could have followed up on the Sermon that He would remember, and keep feeding it to them, plus having them act on it so they were better able to remember it, themselves. As we follow directions for something, we can better and better remember the directions.

So . . . this also is included in our on topic thing of what is involved in being saved > Jesus personally shares with us, making sure we get things; the Holy Spirit has us remember things. And there is demonstration of His word, in how God has us living what He means. And this, by the on topic way, helps to save us . . . from ourselves!! . . . as you, ximmix, have indicated we need . . . if we can just overlook certain wrong things. Then, we need to be saved from our own selves and therefore our own character, I would say.

And so, it is logical, then, I can see, why Jesus says a person needs to deny oneself in order to follow Jesus >

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23)

Now, I personally understand that my "self" includes my own free will.

Nothing of me is safe, nothing trustworthy, without Jesus.

 

[ximmix]

This improves on what I meant by "obvious" sins.

Arguing would be another one which goes below the radar.

So not all sins are equal, got it.

Like I have offered, God can remember what we might conveniently forget. He could have a writer remember.

I am now thinking . . . for an idea > Jesus gave that message, but then He spent personal quality time with the disciples. So, not only could the Holy Spirit have some one writer remember it all, but Jesus could have followed up on the Sermon that He would remember, and keep feeding it to them, plus having them act on it so they were better able to remember it, themselves. As we follow directions for something, we can better and better remember the directions.

So . . . this also is included in our on topic thing of what is involved in being saved > Jesus personally shares with us, making sure we get things; the Holy Spirit has us remember things. And there is demonstration of His word, in how God has us living what He means. And this, by the on topic way, helps to save us . . . from ourselves!! . . . as you, ximmix, have indicated we need . . . if we can just overlook certain wrong things. Then, we need to be saved from our own selves and therefore our own character, I would say.

And so, it is logical, then, I can see, why Jesus says a person needs to deny oneself in order to follow Jesus

So just speculation. That's ok, but it doesn't get me closer to an answer...