What does it mean to be saved?

[jehoiakim]

hmm I knew better then to participate in this thread, clearly you are here with a chip on your shoulder not looking for an actual answer but just to pick a fight.

Of course you can try not to sin without getting "saved" but it is worthless if you have rejected God's grace and God's plan of redemption. The point of being saved is to be reconciled with God, stopping your sin only gives you a clean slate from that point out (until you inevitably sin again) it doesn't clear your slate of prior offenses, which was why christ took our punishment. is that fair to blame Jesus and let him take the fall, darn tootin it isn't fair, that's why it proves God is love he offered it even though we didn't deserve it.

 

[chris4243]

"Saved" means you are on the path for going to Heaven, and your sins forgiven through Jesus. Some say it is a certain thing, that once saved forever saved, others that you have to persevere to the end and then you're saved. The various denominations can't agree as to what one must do to be (or stay) saved, and what is good to do but "extra".

 

[Ken-1122]

No. This is a possible misunderstanding, and IMHO it shows having "head knowledge" that has not penetrated the heart:

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
(Romans 6:2) By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self [fn] was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free [fn] from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions."

One of the best things I've heard was linked on CF, expounding this passage. Apparently the verbiage is quite military.

Head knowledge is all I have; perhaps you can explain "saved" in a way that I can understand using my limited knowledge.

Also, can you explain the scripture you quoted? The scripture uses a lot of language that I don't understand; like "being baptized in the death of Jesus" or "dead to sin" What does this mean? Please explain

K

 

[Ken-1122]

hmm I knew better then to participate in this thread, clearly you are here with a chip on your shoulder not looking for an actual answer but just to pick a fight.

Of course you can try not to sin without getting "saved" but it is worthless if you have rejected God's grace and God's plan of redemption. The point of being saved is to be reconciled with God, stopping your sin only gives you a clean slate from that point out (until you inevitably sin again) it doesn't clear your slate of prior offenses, which was why christ took our punishment. is that fair to blame Jesus and let him take the fall, darn tootin it isn't fair, that's why it proves God is love he offered it even though we didn't deserve it.

So far I haven't gotten a clear picture of what it means to be saved! I understand once you become, you should try not to sin anymore even though you will, but what happens to a person when he gets saved?

 

[Ken-1122]

"Saved" means you are on the path for going to Heaven, and your sins forgiven through Jesus. Some say it is a certain thing, that once saved forever saved, others that you have to persevere to the end and then you're saved. The various denominations can't agree as to what one must do to be (or stay) saved, and what is good to do but "extra".

So saved means you are simply on the right path? If a good person gets saved, does his behavior change? Or does he just continue doing what he was doing before but knowing he is on the right path.

K

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Are you saved? An Orthodox Christian answer:

Are you saved? - an Orthodox Christian answer. - YouTube

 

[chris4243]

So saved means you are simply on the right path?

It means more than that, but what more it means depends on who you ask.

If a good person gets saved, does his behavior change? Or does he just continue doing what he was doing before but knowing he is on the right path.

I think the phrase, "an unsaved good person" will invoke fits in many Christians.

 

[GrayAngel]

Different people will give you different answers to your questions, but the Biblically accurate answer is this:

Faith is all we need to be saved. Faith, however, must be properly defined. It's belief in Jesus and His sacrifice and resurrection, but it's applied knowledge. When we're saved, God comes and lives in us, changing us from the inside out. This will show in a changed way of living.

As Paul put it: faith without works is dead. Simple head-knowledge is not enough. But good works, without faith, is just as useless. To have saving faith, we must apply our beliefs to our lives.

Of course, none of us will ever be perfect. Paul himself stated that He struggled with doing what was right and avoiding doing wrong. But our actions are the evidence of our faith, not the essence of it. We don't have to be perfect, we just have to have a heart for serving Christ.

 

[razeontherock]

Head knowledge is all I have; perhaps you can explain "saved" in a way that I can understand using my limited knowledge.

We ALL have limited knowledge! You're still on a good line of questioning here. How can one possibly engage Christians on the topic of Salvation until you first know what the term means?

Also, can you explain the scripture you quoted? The scripture uses a lot of language that I don't understand; like "being baptized in the death of Jesus" or "dead to sin" What does this mean? Please explain

K

Fair question. Let me point out the Bible presents the same concepts over and over, in a dizzying array of ways. Apparently G-d hopes that sooner or later we might "get it."

And I'm here to tell ya, once we get it, we then leak - by design. We have to get it over and over; daily is ideal.

I've given you a few different key scriptures, from a couple different translations, that try to be concise re: what you ask. Have you read them, and applied yourself to trying to understand them? You seem to be like me, in that concise isn't always best. You want detail. I need understanding.

What G-d did to give me the answer to what you ask here, in this quote, is take me through the OT. Very dry, dusty stuff. He showed me how Christ fulfilled the OT law of bloody sacrifices. This process took years of deep prayer, lots of fasting, lots and LOTS of profound revelations, visions, dreams, some of which were very disturbing and continue to be, and lots of effort on my part.

I won't say you're as tough a case as I am. I will point you to a thread that gives background info that was essential for me to understand any of this, and it is FAR less detailed than what I mentioned above:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7478962/

What I can promise, is that this has been the most rewarding pursuit I've ever undertaken. (Not that thread, but the bigger picture)

 

[Ken-1122]

Are you saved? An Orthodox Christian answer:

Are you saved? - an Orthodox Christian answer. - YouTube

Nice video! If I understand the video correctly, to be saved is an ongoing attempt to be a good person and preform good deeds. Then when you die your good deeds will allow you to be saved upon death and you can go to heaven. Is that correct?

K

 

[Ken-1122]

Chris 4243(quote) “It means more than that, but what more it means depends on who you ask.

(reply) I’m asking you! What more?

(quote) “I think the phrase, "an unsaved good person" will invoke fits in many Christians”

(reply) What about you? Does it invoke fits? Or do you think it is possible for non-Christians to be good people.


K

 

[Ken-1122]

Different people will give you different answers to your questions, but the Biblically accurate answer is this:

Faith is all we need to be saved. Faith, however, must be properly defined. It's belief in Jesus and His sacrifice and resurrection, but it's applied knowledge. When we're saved, God comes and lives in us, changing us from the inside out. This will show in a changed way of living.

As Paul put it: faith without works is dead. Simple head-knowledge is not enough. But good works, without faith, is just as useless. To have saving faith, we must apply our beliefs to our lives.

Of course, none of us will ever be perfect. Paul himself stated that He struggled with doing what was right and avoiding doing wrong. But our actions are the evidence of our faith, not the essence of it. We don't have to be perfect, we just have to have a heart for serving Christ.

So to be "saved" means to believe that Jesus was a sacrifice, rose from the dead, and attempting to be a good person. Is that correct?

K

 

[drich0150]

So if you get saved, it means you will become free from the wages of sin?

Yes

Again; what does that mean?

You will not spiritually die (Be sent to Hell)

do you become perfect? sinless?

Not in this life.

exactly what happens when you get saved?

Your sins are forgiven, and you are ready to begin your relationship with God.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Nice video! If I understand the video correctly, to be saved is an ongoing attempt to be a good person and preform good deeds. Then when you die your good deeds will allow you to be saved upon death and you can go to heaven. Is that correct?

K

Nope, no one is saved apart from God's grace. We can choose to co-operate with the grace so generously bestowed upon us, or we can choose to reject it. He respects our free will and does not force us to love or accept Him.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

When a pearson gets "saved" what does that mean?

Ken

This is a fairly gigantic topic for me theologically, so I apologize if I'm overly verbose here.

Salvation is theosis, our subsummation into the totality of God's eternal and divine life, given and made real for man and creation in Christ Jesus, the perfect union of God and man and whereby we by our Baptism have become born anew as children and heirs of God united in and to Jesus who represents a brand new humanity; the fullness of human existence as always intended and purposed by God. Because we are united to Christ we share in His victory over sin and death, and because of this experience reconciliation--with God and with each other--as the power of sin has been crushed by Christ and we (also by being united to Him) have hope in the total victory over death at the resurrection of the dead and eternal life in the World to Come.

It means being invited into the communal life of the Church, the Body of Christ, where being nourished by the Word and Sacraments we are being transformed and conformed to Jesus by the power of the Spirit; living in the present as a new human family under the universal Fatherhood of God in anticipation and hope of the future eschatological reality of the kingdom by our intimate communion in and with one another; as a people invited to forsake the tools of war and violence, a people invited to give up grudges and all hostility, to proclaim God's kingdom as preached by Christ: For the poor, the outcast, the hated, the unloved and the destitute. Because God, in Christ, identifies with the victims of this world; Christ's Church also, as the outpost of God's coming kingdom, must also be where Christ is, doing the work of Christ as He commanded.

The resurrection of Christ means the universal "reboot" of creation, God's ongoing creative project that is the universe. Christ died and has risen, and He has established a community of people who having been united to Him by grace and faith they are sharers in God and in God's creative work. To preach the Gospel, to feed the hungry, to be reconciled to their enemies, to live peaceably and humbly in light of the kingdom which will come in its fullness at the end of all things, when the dead are raised--death being defeated in its entirety--and all of creation becomes enraptured into the renewing and restoring light of God. This is the universal vision of the Prophets and the Apostles, as described beautifully by St. John the Divine where God makes all things new, the marriage of the heavenly and the earthly in one whole, glorified, restored reality: the illuminating light of God pervading and filling the whole of existence. And this, world without end.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[chris4243]

Chris 4243(quote) “It means more than that, but what more it means depends on who you ask.

(reply) I’m asking you! What more?

As I said, depends on who you ask. My opinion? Anyone who does their best to love his neighbor as himself, and when they stand before God to be judged aren't so proud as to reject Jesus' sacrifice.

(quote) “I think the phrase, "an unsaved good person" will invoke fits in many Christians”

(reply) What about you? Does it invoke fits? Or do you think it is possible for non-Christians to be good people.

I think a higher proportion of secular humanists will make it into Heaven, than those who call themselves Christian.

 

[oi_antz]

When a pearson gets "saved" what does that mean?

Ken

Hi Ken, nice to speak with you, I think this is the first time we have spoken, though I did contribute to another thread of yours where Iakobos required some help.

There was a man called Nicodemus who approached Jesus secretly. Read what happened:

John 3

1 There was a man named Nicodemus, a Jewish religious leader who was a Pharisee. 2 After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus. “Rabbi,” he said, “we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you.”

3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again,[a] you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

4 “What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?”

5 Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.[c] 7 So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.”

9 “How are these things possible?” Nicodemus asked.

10 Jesus replied, “You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don’t understand these things? 11 I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. 12 But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

So you see that spiritual life is given to us by God, and it is mysterious. You should notice that Nicodemus being a Pharisee was highly religious, yet he didn't know about the reality of spiritual life! This goes to show that being religious or having religious knowledge is not necessarily a benefit. The real benefit of Christianity is having this eternal life, being born of the spirit.

You might wonder why this is useful if it doesn't save our lives? I'll answer this by showing you the promise of Jesus Christ:

The Final Judgment

11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

A point to note here is that those whose names are in the Book of Life are saved from the lake of fire. That is the real benefit of being 'saved'. Notice that the lake of fire is the "second death". That death is not a physical death, it is eternal death. There is no more life for those who are doomed to that fate. Read what happens to those whose names are found in the Book of Life:

Revelation 21

The New Jerusalem

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them.[c] 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”

Notice here that God is going to create a new heaven and earth, it will be home to all of those who belong to Him, and He will live with them and there will be no more death or crying or pain. That world is going to be perfectly good.

That is what it means to be saved. Notice what salvation means is that we grow into the type of person whose name God will want to write in the Book of Life. A holy person who loves righteousness instead of sin, fit for a place in a perfect world. That is what it means to be saved, it is knowing that our eternal life is secure by trusting in Jesus. What it means to trust in Jesus is to be attentive to God and build your faith on Jesus' teaching. Notice that God doesn't get in your face and say "obey me or die". Rather, He has put the offer to you and waits for you to accept it.

 

[jehoiakim]

Ken if I misread you, I sincerely apologize. My tone was rather harsh and I am very sorry. Sometimes I read into what people are saying poorly when it is online, I am usually more patient then that and I am sorry that I have failed you in this way. God has much patience with me and I do not deserve it, I should be treating you the same...Not that I'm saying you don't deserve my patience, if you are asking genuinely you certainly do

 

[GrayAngel]

So to be "saved" means to believe that Jesus was a sacrifice, rose from the dead, and attempting to be a good person. Is that correct?

K

Almost. The problem I have with this explanation is the phase "good person." It's a humanist term, which I'm not very fond of. The point is not trying to become a good person. It's that we love God, and so we want to do what makes Him happy.

 

[razeontherock]

I would take that further. To present "being saved" as what we believe to members of the early Church, no doubt would have left them looking at you (us) like we were mad. Faith is not a matter of what you believe or don't as if there will be a cosmic quiz and we either get a passing grade (heaven) or we fail (hell.)

It's rather a question of Jesus' OWN Life taking up residence in us, and Him knowing His own.