What does it mean to be "Righteous"?

[DevotiontoBible]

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified (Romans 8:30).

This verse shows the progression unto being saved. Those predestined to salvation are first CALLED to repentance by confessing and turning from sin. We are justified of our sins as we repent and confess our sins, but do not become JUSTIFIED and born of the Spirit until we are forgiven of all trespasses. For with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

When God sees in our heart we have truly repented by turning from the world and sin, we are born of the Spirit. This happens by being quickened together with the Spirit of Christ when reconciled to God by being forgiven of all trespasses. This is when we are JUSTIFIED as RIGHTEOUS. These words translated to mean JUSTIFIED and RIGHTEOUS are the same greek word.

After we have been JUSTIFIED, we are spiritually "crucified with Christ" by the workings of the Spirit in our life for the purpose of "destroying" the body of sin of our "old man". We are made conformable to a state of death to our flesh and sin with Jesus Christ. In this manner our heart is "circumcised" of it's fleshly nature. We spiritually mature and are raised incorruptible by putting off the ways of corruption from sin in our life. This is also called our sanctification as we are purified to overcome sin unto being sanctified completely by baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is when we are made HOLY and our mortal body is changed to put on immortality. This is the resurrection of the body when we are saved as "sons/daughter" of God and heirs of the Kingdom of God.

We become saints (angels of the Lord) when sanctified completely (wholly).

God bless

My point is that God credits our faith as righteousness. We are not a righteous person. In the OT a righteous person did not break God's Commandments...ever. In the NT a person is credited with Christ's righteousness. We are a righteous person when we no longer break God's Commands. However, there is no possibility of absolute sinnless perfection in this life.

 

[holo]

My point is that God credits our faith as righteousness. We are not a righteous person. In the OT a righteous person did not break God's Commandments...ever. In the NT a person is credited with Christ's righteousness. We are a righteous person when we no longer break God's Commands. However, there is no possibility of absolute sinnless perfection in this life.

Your innermost being is spirit. And that spirit has been born of God and can not sin.

You are righteous. The sin lives in your flesh, as it were. Not in your heart, not in your core, not in your spirit. When you sin, you contradict your identity. You can act like you're not your father's son, but you can never change the actual fact that you are indeed his son. So it is with God and us. We are his children. We are righteous by nature, contrary to Adam and his descendants, who are/were sinners by nature.

King David was called "a man after Gods' own heart," even though he slept with a woman and then killed her husband, and Moses was reckoned as righteous by faith.

It's not just about semantics, because "as a man thinks, so he is" - if you see yourself as a sinner, you'll sin. And often when christians sin, they try to beat it with discipline and commandments, which only feeds the sin. Trying to put a flame out with gasoline, trying to conquer your flesh with, well, your flesh. A kingdom at war with itself will fall.

You ARE righteous. You are guiltless, blameless, perfect. Your guilt is as far from you as the east is from the west. God himself says so. Let God be true and every man a liar.

If you struggle with sin, the solution isn't to try to change, but rather to realize who you really are. When you do that, the sin that sits in your flesh will lose its power. It works, try it

 

[MarkEvan]

King David was called "a man after Gods' own heart," even though he slept with a woman and then killed her husband, and Moses was reckoned as righteous by faith.

You are absolutly right David did commit adultery and murder, but the important thing to notice is that he repented, and in that repentance pleaded with God that God would not take His spirit away from him. Does this sound like someone who acts like he is not his Fathers son and yet knows that he still is? No, it sounds like someone who knows the penalty for his sin and knows that he had every means not to sin but did not avail himself of them, at the point in time that David sinned he was not a man after Gods own heart, if he was why did he sin?

It's not just about semantics, because "as a man thinks, so he is" - if you see yourself as a sinner, you'll sin. And often when christians sin, they try to beat it with discipline and commandments, which only feeds the sin. Trying to put a flame out with gasoline, trying to conquer your flesh with, well, your flesh. A kingdom at war with itself will fall.

But the scriptures tell us to discipline ourselves, Paul says that he punished and enslaved the body so that he would not be disqualified after proclaiming the truth to others. Its not that we discipline ourselves just because it is the right thing to do, if this is our motive we wil never be pure, if however we do these things out of love for God then yes we do it for the right reasons and will be pure. If you say we are pure already why does Paul pray that Timothy already a believer will become pure?

If you struggle with sin, the solution isn't to try to change, but rather to realize who you really are. When you do that, the sin that sits in your flesh will lose its power. It works, try it

what do you mean by this? Do you mean that sin loses its power in the sense that you no longer commit it? If this is tha case then I will agree. If you mean that sin loses its power because you no longer feel the guilt assosiated with that sin? then I will say that sin is more powerful than it was before but you are correct that we will no longer feel guilty, but that is a bad thing.

Mark

P.S "Persue peace with everyone and the holiness without which no one will see the LORD," is it possible to willfully sin and still be persuing holiness, is it possible to accept that sin is an inevitability in our lives and still be persuing HOLINESS.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Your innermost being is spirit. And that spirit has been born of God and can not sin.

You are righteous. The sin lives in your flesh, as it were. Not in your heart, not in your core, not in your spirit. When you sin, you contradict your identity. You can act like you're not your father's son, but you can never change the actual fact that you are indeed his son. So it is with God and us. We are his children. We are righteous by nature, contrary to Adam and his descendants, who are/were sinners by nature.

King David was called "a man after Gods' own heart," even though he slept with a woman and then killed her husband, and Moses was reckoned as righteous by faith.

It's not just about semantics, because "as a man thinks, so he is" - if you see yourself as a sinner, you'll sin. And often when christians sin, they try to beat it with discipline and commandments, which only feeds the sin. Trying to put a flame out with gasoline, trying to conquer your flesh with, well, your flesh. A kingdom at war with itself will fall.

You ARE righteous. You are guiltless, blameless, perfect. Your guilt is as far from you as the east is from the west. God himself says so. Let God be true and every man a liar.

If you struggle with sin, the solution isn't to try to change, but rather to realize who you really are. When you do that, the sin that sits in your flesh will lose its power. It works, try it

The Lord instructs us to practice strict self control :

1 Cor. 9:24-27 (NLT)
Remember that in a race everyone runs, but only one person gets the prize. You also must run in such a way that you will win. [25] All athletes practice strict self-control. They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize. [26] So I run straight to the goal with purpose in every step. I am not like a boxer who misses his punches. [27] I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.

Acts 24:25 (NLT)
As he reasoned with them about righteousness and self-control and the judgment to come, Felix was terrified. "Go away for now," he replied. "When it is more convenient, I'll call for you again."

Hebrews 5:14 (NLT)
Solid food is for those who are mature, who have trained themselves to recognize the difference between right and wrong and then do what is right.


Titus 2:12 (NLT)
And we are instructed to turn from godless living and sinful pleasures. We should live in this evil world with self-control, right conduct, and devotion to God,

 

[holo]

But the scriptures tell us to discipline ourselves, Paul says that he punished and enslaved the body so that he would not be disqualified after proclaiming the truth to others. Its not that we discipline ourselves just because it is the right thing to do, if this is our motive we wil never be pure, if however we do these things out of love for God then yes we do it for the right reasons and will be pure. If you say we are pure already why does Paul pray that Timothy already a believer will become pure?

Sure, one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control. I may need to control myself if I feel the urge to slap my boss, for example. That doesn't make me pure though, it only benefits me and my boss

Righteousness and holiness doesn't come by works.

what do you mean by this? Do you mean that sin loses its power in the sense that you no longer commit it?

Yes. Being free from blame is a bonus, too. You actually never ever need to feel guilty about anything, because you aren't. But I'm not suggesting you don't listen to your emotions - they're there for a reason. But you never have to listen to anyone who condemns you, not even yourself.

(It seems a lot of us find it more Christ-like, or biblical, or whatever, to feel bad and ashamed for at least three days after they did something wrong, just to show God and others that we really regret...)

P.S "Persue peace with everyone and the holiness without which no one will see the LORD," is it possible to willfully sin and still be persuing holiness, is it possible to accept that sin is an inevitability in our lives and still be persuing HOLINESS.

Well, I'm not sure we can UNwilfully sin...

But yeah, I have no illusions of being completely free from sin in every way from now and till eternity.

 

[holo]

The Lord instructs us to practice strict self control :

1 Cor. 9:24-27 (NLT)
Remember that in a race everyone runs, but only one person gets the prize. You also must run in such a way that you will win. [25] All athletes practice strict self-control. They do it to win a prize that will fade away, but we do it for an eternal prize. [26] So I run straight to the goal with purpose in every step. I am not like a boxer who misses his punches. [27] I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.

Sure, and since self control is a fruit of the Spirit, give the Spirit plenty of room and soil to grow

That may mean you have to stop trying to change yourself (you can't).

 

[scandinavian19]

The righteousness of Christ has been "imputed"

Prior to our conversion, righteousness didn't emnate from our own nature. Romans 3: 10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; We were dead in our tresspasses and sins.

Our righteousness is compared to a filthy garment.

Isaiah 64:6 "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

We are not immune to the enticement of sin as temptation becons to our fleshly desires.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

Our Victory in Life is by the Spirit
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

I highlighted verse 13 because it shows that the believer is engaged in active participation of sanctification and working out salvation with fear and trembling. It's also taking into account every thought and bringing them into submission.

2Co 10:5 - We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

Note the old nature versus the new nature

• You were once dead in your trespasses and sins but are alive in Christ Eph 2:1
• You were walking in darkness but now are walking in the light Eph 5:8
• You were children of disobedience but now sons of obedience. Eph 2:2
• You were children of wraith but now are sons of a greater inheritance. Eph 2:3

In Abraham's case (He trusted what God said"
Ro 4:3 - For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Sin and the Believer

Those who are born of God do not go out of there way to intentionally, purposefully; with
Pre-meditation continue to practice sin. Some fall into sin but they no longer have the desire to practice that lifestyle and often turn back.

1Jo 3:10 - By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

 

[MarkEvan]

Sure, one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control. I may need to control myself if I feel the urge to slap my boss, for example. That doesn't make me pure though, it only benefits me and my boss

Righteousness and holiness doesn't come by works.

First I know the feeling, bosses can be a real pain sometimes .

A question though, what are the righteous deeds of the saints?

Yes. Being free from blame is a bonus, too. You actually never ever need to feel guilty about anything, because you aren't. But I'm not suggesting you don't listen to your emotions - they're there for a reason. But you never have to listen to anyone who condemns you, not even yourself.

But conviction from our sin comes from the Spirit, and we are to listen to Him!

Well, I'm not sure we can UNwilfully sin...

But yeah, I have no illusions of being completely free from sin in every way from now and till eternity.

Although I do not advocate absolute sinless perfection I do advocate christian perfection as John Wesley taught it, (which I believe to be scriptural).
As Jesus said "go away and sin no more."

mark

Ps

That may mean you have to stop trying to change yourself (you can't).

You are right we cannot change ourselves, this does not mean that we sit back and do nothing.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Sure, and since self control is a fruit of the Spirit, give the Spirit plenty of room and soil to grow

That may mean you have to stop trying to change yourself (you can't).

I think I remember conversing with you some time ago and I remember you to be antinomian. Your position was that a man is righteous while committing sodomy with another man just because he calls himself a Christian. It is a Christians responsibility to work hard at changing himself: Phil 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Although I do not advocate absolute sinless perfection I do advocate christian perfection as John Wesley taught it, (which I believe to be scriptural).


.

And so do I.

 

[holo]

I think I remember conversing with you some time ago and I remember you to be antinomian. Your position was that a man is righteous while committing sodomy with another man just because he calls himself a Christian.

I guess you mistake me for someone else then.

It is a Christians responsibility to work hard at changing himself

Actually, you can't change yourself. You need to be born again. You can't simply decide to become another person, God must kill the old man and give birth to a new one.

But you can adjust your behaviour. If you believe you're a sinner, you'll sin like sinners do. Just like the elephant who thinks the chain is too strong, doesn't escape even though he's actually free to go.

Your behaviour didn't save you, and so naturally it won't "unsave" you.

 

[holo]

I highlighted verse 13 because it shows that the believer is engaged in active participation of sanctification and working out salvation with fear and trembling. It's also taking into account every thought and bringing them into submission.

Allow me to disagree a little, my fellow scandinavian

We don't actually participate in our sanctification - it's not like Jesus does most of the job and then needs me to finish it. It's not like I could somehow do or make something that God would find good enough. If the Levitical priests were killed for offering a limp lamb, surely I can't expect to please God with my own righteousness.

And as you quote, "we were sons of disobedience" and all that. Paul is writing to people who probably still sin, but he reminded them of who they were. Reckon yourself dead to sin

 

[holo]

A question though, what are the righteous deeds of the saints?

Good works, I guess. Holy actions (if that's an expression).

But conviction from our sin comes from the Spirit, and we are to listen to Him!

Sure we are. But the Spirit doesn't want you to feel bad for days on end and prostrate and blame yourself endlessly, unlike satan (and many christians). When the Spirit convicts you, it's NEVER in a condemning manner. The Spirit will NOT make you feel bad, but rather, in a miraculous way, inspire you to do better instead. If you walk around reminding and blaming yourself for a sin (no matter if this was the 523412th time you did it or if it was willful or not, or an extra super-duper king size mega sin), it's not from God. Not. From. God. Not ever.

The Spirit may convict you, but he will never accuse you. The accuser is the devil.

You are right we cannot change ourselves, this does not mean that we sit back and do nothing.

No, it means go out and live your life. If there's anything to do, I'm happy to do it. But regarding my righteousness, there's nothing left to do. "It is finished," as the Lord said. We're righteous, so let's do righteous things.

There are still people to feed, problems to be solved, friends to be made, fun to be had, pain to be comforted.

 

[icxn]

I'll let you know, just as soon as I become righteous.

You are on the right path.

Some examples of righteous behavior:

Once Abba Macarius was given a truly appetizing bunch of fresh grapes, which he was really looking forward to eating. Stretching his hand to pick some he remembered another brother (monk) who [in the past] had expressed a great desire for them. So he sent them to him. On being given these grapes the brother appeared absolutely delighted - but upon grabbing some he remembered another brother who had a love for grapes so he gave them to him. He too accepted the gift and made out how delighted he would be to eat them. And so it went on, the grapes passed through the hands of many of the brothers, none of them having ventured to eat them. In the end the last person to receive them gave them back in a magnificent gesture of generosity to Macarius himself. Macarius investigated and marveled, giving thanks to God that so many of them placed their brother above themselves as to forbear eating those grapes. - The Desert Fathers


With respect to Spyridon, so great was his sanctity while a shepherd, that he was thought worthy of being made a Pastor of men: and having been assigned the bishopric of one of the cities in Cyprus named Trimithus, on account of his extreme humility he continued to feed his sheep during his incumbency of the bishopric. Many extraordinary things are related of him: I shall however record but one or two, lest I should seem to wander from my subject. Once about midnight, thieves having clandestinely entered his sheepfold attempted to carry off some of the sheep. But God who protected the shepherd preserved his sheep also; for the thieves were by an invisible power bound to the folds. At daybreak, when he came to the sheep and found the men with their hands tied behind them, he understood what was done: and after having prayed he liberated the thieves, earnestly admonishing and exhorting them to support themselves by honest labor, and not to take anything unjustly. He then gave them a ram, and sent them away, humorously adding, ‘that ye may not appear to have watched all night in vain.’ - Source

And one from the "heathen:"

Tetsugen, a devotee of Zen in Japan, decided to publish the sutras (wise sayings), which at that time were available only in Chinese. The books were to be printed with wood blocks in an edition of seven thousand copies, a tremendous undertaking.

Tetsugen began by traveling and collecting donations for this purpose. A few sympathizers would give him a hundred pieces of gold, but most of the time he received only small coins. He thanked each donor with equal gratitude. After ten years Tetsugen had enough money to begin his task.

It happened that at that time the Uji Rive overflowed. Famine followed. Tetsugen took the funds he had collected for the books and spent them to save others from starvation. Then he began again his work of collecting.

Several years afterwards an epidemic spread over the country. Tetsugen again gave away what he had collected, to help his people. For a third time he started his work, and after twenty years his wish was fulfilled. The printing blocks which produced the first edition of sutras can be seen today in the Obaku monastery in Kyoto.

The Japanese tell their children that Tetsugen made three sets of sutras, and that the first two invisible sets surpass even the last. - Zen Koan

 

[kw5kw]

Although I do not advocate absolute sinless perfection I do advocate christian perfection as John Wesley taught it, (which I believe to be scriptural).
As Jesus said "go away and sin no more."

mark

Ps

But, we're human, we all will sin up to the day; the hour; the minute and maybe even the second we die.
It's God's Grace that will take up the slack because once we accepted Jesus as our saviour then we became one of God's family and our names were written in the "Book of Life" from which they will be read on Judgement Day.

You are right we cannot change ourselves, this does not mean that we sit back and do nothing.

You're absolutely correct-amundo (sic), but once we become one of God's family, by accepting Jesus as our Saviour, then the Holy Spirit comes and resides in us. He guides us and we wish to follow the way in which God leads us--by the Spirit. When we (I) do something wrong He hits us (me) up side the head and tells me that I did wrong and I need to repent (apologize) to the Father. I don't need to ask Him to forgive me of my sins, because that has already been done; it was done that day nearly 2000 years ago when Jesus died on the cross for us all. Jesus hung on that cross being convicted for every sin that each and every one of us ever did, was doing at that time and for all of the sins for all people in the future from that instant on. I know I kept him busy for a few seconds of that time at least, for for that I really feel guilty--at times; but, when I think of the Love that God has given me thru His Grace, I am comforted once again. Then I remember what it is that I need to do now: That is to ask the Father to accept my apology for the sin that I just committed and to get on with my life and try--that's the operative word--try to do better.

If you put forth the effort, you will preservere!

Russ

 

[MarkEvan]

Hi Holo,

Righteousness and holiness doesn't come by works.

A question though, what are the righteous deeds of the saints?

Good works, I guess. Holy actions (if that's an expression).

Above is a sequence of statements and a question, do you notice the possible contradiction? What I am saying is that in my opinion there is more than one form of righteousness, first there is that righteousness that comes only from the Lord, that which He views us as because of the work of the Lord Jesus and that which enables us to stand before a holy and perfect God. The others are the righteous deeds that we commit, these don`t get us into heaven but they are a produst of our faith, if I can put it that way.

Sure we are. But the Spirit doesn't want you to feel bad for days on end and prostrate and blame yourself endlessly, unlike satan (and many christians). When the Spirit convicts you, it's NEVER in a condemning manner. The Spirit will NOT make you feel bad, but rather, in a miraculous way, inspire you to do better instead. If you walk around reminding and blaming yourself for a sin (no matter if this was the 523412th time you did it or if it was willful or not, or an extra super-duper king size mega sin), it's not from God. Not. From. God. Not ever.

The Spirit may convict you, but he will never accuse you. The accuser is the devil.

I think that the bible teaches that the Spirit convicts us when we sin and causes us grief when we listen to the Spirit and our grief we repent provided that grief is a Godly grief. But we should mourn for the sins we commit this is part of the beatitudes "blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted," mourning for the sin we commit is a integral part of our lives as christians. If we do not realise the extent to which we hurt God when we sin then we will never repent.

No, it means go out and live your life.

True but we live a life that is pleasing to the Lord.

Mark

 

[shlama]

Abide in LOVE

 

[ETide]

The apostle Paul summed it up well, didn't he..

[bible]Philippians 3:8-9[/bible]

 

[MarkEvan]

But, we're human, we all will sin up to the day; the hour; the minute and maybe even the second we die.
It's God's Grace that will take up the slack because once we accepted Jesus as our saviour then we became one of God's family and our names were written in the "Book of Life" from which they will be read on Judgement Day.

Hi kw5kw, you are entirely right we are human and therefore do sin sins of ommision ie those that we are unaware of because we have not beeen shown that they are sin yet, these however God does not hold us accountable for.
Sins that we are aware of that "we volutarily transgress a known law of God," we are held accountable for, and its these sins that christians can be free of, as I said we are only human but we have the Spirit that created the universe within us, a Spirit who is capable of helping us stand through all temptation if we give ourselves over wholy to Him.

Mark

 

[holo]

Above is a sequence of statements and a question, do you notice the possible contradiction? What I am saying is that in my opinion there is more than one form of righteousness, first there is that righteousness that comes only from the Lord, that which He views us as because of the work of the Lord Jesus and that which enables us to stand before a holy and perfect God. The others are the righteous deeds that we commit, these don`t get us into heaven but they are a produst of our faith, if I can put it that way.

I see. Faith can be seen in works. I'm righteous, therefore I do righteous works. I believe I'm holy, therefore I'll act holy. If you believe you're a sinner, you'll act like one.

I think that the bible teaches that the Spirit convicts us when we sin and causes us grief when we listen to the Spirit and our grief we repent provided that grief is a Godly grief. But we should mourn for the sins we commit this is part of the beatitudes "blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted," mourning for the sin we commit is a integral part of our lives as christians. If we do not realise the extent to which we hurt God when we sin then we will never repent.

I don't mourn my sin, because it's as far from me as the east is from the west. I'm just happy that it's gone

I've mourned, and I've been comforted, and I'm not going to mourn again just so that I can be comforted more... heh. I also don't think we're hurting God as much as ourselves and our fellow man. I can't harm God. I can't give him anything or take anything from him, and I'm afraid the idea of "hurting" God will add to people's guilty and unproductive feelings about themselves.