What does having 96% chimp dna mean to you?

[Speedwell]

I completely disagree. No surprise there. Do you have evidence that the majority of Creationists want to force people to pray in school?

Yes. The majority of creationists belong to the Southern Baptist Convention. QED.

Pay close attention to the word FORCE. We don't want to FORCE anyone to pray in school. We do want to allow people including the teachers to be able to pray in school if they want to. Pay attention to the word ALLOW. There is a large difference between force and allow.

OK, so you are going to ALLOW teachers to lead children in Fundamentalist prayer and Bible study, and you are going to ALLOW children of other faiths to participate. Yeah, I get it.

Yes the protestant Bible. It is just fine.

Fine for Protestants. But by what right do you assert that it should be the official Bible of the public schools? Catholic and Orthodox kids have a different Bible, and children of other faiths have different holy books altogether.

And no we shouldn't send kids home telling them they belong to a godless cult.

So maybe you should stop doing it.

Good grief. Have you forgotten what the Catholics did to the Protestants? No one is guiltless. It's time to stop with the blame games. There is plenty to go around and all it does is serve to divide. Your church is not greater than my church and mine is not greater than yours.

But you want your church to be the only one promoted by the public schools.

We may disagree on some doctrinal issues but you're still.my brother.

Yeah, sure. I may be your brother but I'm also a "Bible-hating, Christ-denying (epithet for communist) (epithet for homosexual) lover." And a "monkey (epithet for sexual intercourse)."

Barton is a good man and an excellent historian. What passes today as history is most often twisted into treason and Barton is excellent at presenting the actual facts.

If you feel so strongly about that character, why don't you start a thread in the politics forum and we can point out his lies, misrepresentations and quote mines.

And you apparently forgot it was Protestants who fought other Protestants in the Civil War. The nice thing about America is we see our sins and try and fix them. That sin was recognized by Protestants and they bled and died for it. I'm kind of getting tired of your attacks on us.

And your Protestant side lost, but you haven't quite gotten over it. We did not fail to notice your creationist Poster Boy Judge Roy Moore waxing nostalgic about Antebellum times and how he wanted to bring them back.

He is doing what we literalists actually fight against. He's applying an interpretation to scripture in trying to.make it say something it's not.

Good one, rjs. That's got to be the laugh of the day and it's not even ten o'clock in the morning yet.

 

[bhsmte]

The key in my statement was, "let us interpret what it means". There is where things get complicated.

You are free to interpret whatever you like.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Let the evidence show us, and let us interpret what it means, and let the chips fall where they may.

Been there. Done that. Regarding the earth, the chips fell at 4.5 billion years.

Where do you think the chips fall?

 

[doubtingmerle]

If only we had a group of professionals that spent their lives studying these sorts of things so that they could form interpretations and then communicate said interpretations to the rest of us in a simplified manner.

I am guessing he will slap his forehead and say "Why didn't I think of that".

Or maybe not.

 

[Almost there]

If only we had a group of professionals that spent their lives studying these sorts of things so that they could form interpretations and then communicate said interpretations to the rest of us in a simplified manner.

Maybe one day...

They do. But at least they know the difference between an hypothesis, theory and how observation strengthens and weakens both.

It cracked me up a couple of years ago when a college graduate who had spent many hours in various biological science classes swore that the peppered moth was an example of biological evolution. She completely ignored the core of any of my comments. That is called dogmatism.

 

[Almost there]

Been there. Done that. Regarding the earth, the chips fell at 4.5 billion years.

Where do you think the chips fall?

That is the latest theory.

 

[pitabread]

It cracked me up a couple of years ago when a college graduate who had spent many hours in various biological science classes swore that the peppered moth was an example of biological evolution.

Why would that crack you up? She was correct.

 

[doubtingmerle]

That is the latest theory.

Actually that has been known for a long time-- the earth is about 4.5 billion years old.

How old do you think it is?

 

[doubtingmerle]

The key in my statement was, "let us interpret what it means". There is where things get complicated.

All non-avian dino fossils are in rocks older than 60 million years. All human fossils are in the last million years. Them`s the facts. The obvious interpretation is that dinos lived before people. What is your complicated interpretation of this?

 

[doubtingmerle]

How do you know it was millions of years ago? Were you there? Its a guess.

isochrons, for instance. If isochron dating says a rock is millions of years old, what reason do you have to doubt it?

 

[rjs330]

Ah, your God moves in mysterious ways.

Mysteriously, he seems to have moved in a way that looks to me like evolution.

Only because you believe the assumptions. There is no real evidence of evolution from a common ancestor. You take commonalities and similarity and assume evolution. You still can't show it actually happened.

 

[rjs330]

No, not a "guess". Science. Geochronology - Wikipedia



There's a difference between creating something fully formed and creating something with the appearance of past history. Earth has the appearance of past history. Ergo, if it was created whereby "age was built into creation", then it was created with the appearance of events that never happened. Other than deception, what other possible reason could there be for doing that?

Please pay attention. For example we believe that stars are formed certain ways. How old is our sun? You believe it is ariund a certain age. But God told us he formed the sum and made it to light the Earth. That means it was created a certain age. If you looked at the sum at the time of creation you would assume it is millions of years old. But it wasn't. It was only a couple of days old when life was placed on this planet. Adam was created with age. If you saw him right after his creation you would assume he was a certain age. But he wasn't. He was just a few minutes old. That's my point. God said he did it that way. It's not a deception.

 

[rjs330]

Yes. The majority of creationists belong to the Southern Baptist Convention. QED.OK, so you are going to ALLOW teachers to lead children in Fundamentalist prayer and Bible study, and you are going to ALLOW children of other faiths to participate. Yeah, I get it.

Fine for Protestants. But by what right do you assert that it should be the official Bible of the public schools? Catholic and Orthodox kids have a different Bible, and children of other faiths have different holy books altogether.So maybe you should stop doing it. But you want your church to be the only one promoted by the public schools.Yeah, sure. I may be your brother but I'm also a "Bible-hating, Christ-denying (epithet for communist) (epithet for homosexual) lover." And a "monkey (epithet for sexual intercourse)."
If you feel so strongly about that character, why don't you start a thread in the politics forum and we can point out his lies, misrepresentations and quote mines.

And your Protestant side lost, but you haven't quite gotten over it. We did not fail to notice your creationist Poster Boy Judge Roy Moore waxing nostalgic about Antebellum times and how he wanted to bring them back.
Good one, rjs. That's got to be the laugh of the day and it's not even ten o'clock in the morning yet.

Umm... I'm not a Baptist. And do you have some sort of proof that the majority of Creationists are southern Baptists?

Yes allow. They don't have to and kids don't have to pray if they don't want to. I'm not really against the Catholic bible. I don't really care. I think it's fine if a teacher has a Protestant bible on their desk or a Catholic bible or even a Quran. It's called freedom of religion. Did I say you hate the bible? Did I say you were a Christ denying communist? Did I say you were a homosexual lover? ( I hope you are because that would be Christ like), and who on Earth called you a monkey ...? It sure wasn't me.

I don't have a Protestant side. I am glad slavery ended. I am sad it took a war to do it. I am proud of our country that we had the fortitude to do what was necessary to end it. I did not support Moore and apparently neither did many others. You can be a Creationists and still be a scumbag. You can also be an evolutionist and be a scumbag. See Al Frankin. I don't get your point. Like I said you shouldn't throw Stones.

And I don't get what's so funny about someone failing to use the Bible correctly. Hes reading his own interpretation into it. Much like a lot of folks do. We literalists are against that. But even people who believe and trust what the word says can fall into trying to make the scripture fit what they believe rather than the other way around.

You are obviously upset over some things but you are lashing out. Be careful you are close to this scripture.

So every single one of you who judge others is without any excuse. You condemn yourself when you judge another person because the one who is judging is doing the same things. - Romans 2:1 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:1 - Common English Bible

 

[SkyWriting]

My point is that a designer of biological forms would not be constrained via hereditary descent in the same manner as biological evolution.

Biological change is by design. If random, then most changes would be mistakes.

 

[Speedwell]

Umm... I'm not a Baptist. And do you have some sort of proof that the majority of Creationists are southern Baptists?

The SBC is officially YEC. They are also the largest Protestant denomination in the country and the second largest Christian denomination after the Catholics. You can figure it out.

Yes allow. They don't have to and kids don't have to pray if they don't want to. I'm not really against the Catholic bible. I don't really care. I think it's fine if a teacher has a Protestant bible on their desk or a Catholic bible or even a Quran. It's called freedom of religion. Did I say you hate the bible? Did I say you were a Christ denying communist? Did I say you were a homosexual lover? ( I hope you are because that would be Christ like), and who on Earth called you a monkey ...? It sure wasn't me.

No, it wasn't; I was referring to my experiences below The Line, where Bible Christians enjoy the kind of authority they would like the government to help them exercise over the rest of the country.

I don't have a Protestant side. I am glad slavery ended. I am sad it took a war to do it. I am proud of our country that we had the fortitude to do what was necessary to end it. I did not support Moore and apparently neither did many others.

It was mostly black women that turned the tide, as I understand it, not many creationists.

And I don't get what's so funny about someone failing to use the Bible correctly. Hes reading his own interpretation into it. Much like a lot of folks do. We literalists are against that. But even people who believe and trust what the word says can fall into trying to make the scripture fit what they believe rather than the other way around.

It wasn't comical-funny, it was ironical-funny.

 

[SkyWriting]

If I were somehow transported back six thousand years, even if everyone around me thought I was nuts I'd still believe radio waves exist, though it might be difficult to prove.

Because nobody would be transmitting any?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Please pay attention. For example we believe that stars are formed certain ways. How old is our sun? You believe it is ariund a certain age. But God told us he formed the sum and made it to light the Earth. That means it was created a certain age. If you looked at the sum at the time of creation you would assume it is millions of years old. But it wasn't.

We both agree there are stars.

And we agree that we can see the light from the stars, yes?

And do we agree that light travels at the speed of light?

And do we agree that many stars are so far away that it takes millions of years for the light to get here?

But we see the light that left those stars, yes?

Therefore the stars are old, yes?

 

[pitabread]

Biological change is by design. If random, then most changes would be mistakes.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.

Evolution, by its nature, is a trial 'n error process. Effectively it's like a search algorithm for biologically viable forms (relative to their environment). It's neither strictly random, nor strictly deterministic.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this.

Evolution, by its nature, is a trial 'n error process. Effectively it's like a search algorithm for biologically viable forms (relative to their environment). It's neither strictly random, nor strictly deterministic.

In the world of engineering, there is no randomness.
Just unknown influences.
If it was a trial and error process, then most results would be errors.
In contrast, most errors are eliminated at the source by error correcting DNA.

 

[pitabread]

In the world of engineering, there is no randomness.

Then do you believe everything is deterministic?

If it was a trial and error process, then most results would be errors.
In contrast, most errors are eliminated at the source by error correcting DNA.

There still are "errors" in the sense of mutations which have negative fitness effects (including lethal mutations). However, those get effectively weeded out due to selection.