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Like circumcision, baptism is not the winning ticket, it's the entry ticket.
This is going to be a toughy for some people.
God created Time itself. God is in time but it's not a box that can contain Him. God can move through time the way we might move through a room...
God is truly timeless... we are bound by it... currently.
meaning that to see God face to face we too must become timeless.
It's an ancient near eastern expression...I don’t know I think this is a bit presumptuous, no offense my friend, but I’m not certain that we will ever truly see The Father face to face. I’m not even convinced that He has a face to be honest. I know we’re made in His image but that can mean a lot of things. No one has ever seen The Father except Jesus.
The point being discussed is that "being born again" IS baptism. So, I think this discussion is right on topic.Isn't this thread supposed to be about the term "born again" and not about Baptism?
I mean to say that Baptism is certainly a very worthy subject to discuss...
But it's a different subject altogether. Kinda like Sabbath keeping...a worthy subject but a different one.
Ok...The point being discussed is that "being born again" IS baptism. So, I think this discussion is right on topic.
There was no covenant during the time these people lived. All of these people lived before Abraham and before the old covenant was given.
Thank you again for this correction. I spoke too quickly, my reply was incorrect (I must have had what some people here call a brain-fart) and did not answer the question: "Will these people go to heaven? Adam, Eve, Able, Enoch, Elijah, Methuselah? Were they ever baptized with water? There’s countless more examples of people who were never baptized in water who were justified by God."
I will try again.
Yes, there were (and 'possibly' still are) many/some people who were never baptized with water who were justified by God. Agreed.
1. What saved these people? Grace.
2. How did they receive this grace? Through Divine Faith.
3. What is Divine Faith? Divine Faith, as opposed to human faith, is believing God, repenting of sin, and obeying God. If any of these three are missing, we do not have Divine Faith.
I believe that in these three statements is contained the whole truth of salvation, and that this can be applied to all justified men that ever lived or will live.
Coming back to the original question now. Yes, there have been many people that were saved without water baptism, since they believed God, repented of sin and obeyed God. The commandments that Jesus gave us were never known or given to them and could therefore not apply to them.
But now that Jesus has told us that a man cannot see the kingdom of God unless he is born again, and since I believe that Scripture clearly teaches that being born again means to be baptised with water, I do not believe that anyone who disobeys Jesus with full knowledge and consent will be saved without water baptism.
The same thing was true of king Saul in the Old Testament...Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit and began speaking in tongues before they were baptized.
Yes, and what is your point?Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit and began speaking in tongues before they were baptized.
Yes, and what is your point?
The Holy Spirit also descended upon Caiphas and made him prophesy, yet Caiphas was not "born again". And in Numbers 22 the Holy Spirit even descended upon an ass and rebuked Balaam through a dumb animal that was not "born again".my point is that they had received the i dwelling of the Holy Spirit Devore they were baptized so they were already born again before they were baptized, not after.
no, it is to be Baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Just like the Bible saysIt means that, as an unbeliever, you have a nature that is sinful. It means that because Adam sinned, this caused a " lost position".., where he was no longer connected to God, spiritually.
And all who were born since Adam, have this same situation... this same spiritual condition.
Our nature, is our spiritual condition... and its UNRIGHTEOUS.
We have a dead spirit, ... dead in the sense that is not a part of God's HOLY Spirit.
God is "A" Spirit.....= Holy Spirit.
We are not holy, we are sinful, sinners, and lost. "Lost" means we are disconnected from the Holy Spirit of God.
How is this resolved? God gives us His Righteousness, and it becomes OURS.
"we are made the righteousness of GOD = IN CHRIST".
"The Gift of Righteousness".
Through our FAITH .... God BIRTHS our spirit into His, and we become "ONE" with God and Christ.
How does this happen? Thru the power of the Holy Spirit.... God literally puts His Righteousness in us, and we become it, and this creates a BIRTH in our Spirit, that connects us to God's Spirit. = Born again.
This is the "new birth", or the 2nd Birth, which creates us as a "new Creation" "In Christ".
This is how we are born again. = Jesus said : "You must be born again". John 3
What causes it?
"all that call on the name of Jesus, shall be SAVED". "Saved" means, justified in God's sight.
It means that the blood of Jesus is applied to us, which gives us a complete forgiveness that is eternal.
It causes us to be at peace with God, and it forever redeems us back into God's family.
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