What doctrines are non-negotiable?

[YeShallTread]

I appreciate anyone taking a stab at listing essential (or, OTOH, non-essential) doctrines. But what are you saying about your "Big 3?" That these are the three and only three essential beliefs? No rapture?

They are the three I believe will most deceive Christians.

1. There is no rapture..be prepared.

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A rapture to fly believers away before the tribulation is a satanic lie and completely in conflict with God's Word. We are to endure the tribulation (a time of great deception) but if we think we will be snatched up...why study about that time, why be concerned about the events Jesus tells us will take place and to...prepare for?

2. Belief that the end of this age happened in 70AD and is not future is a serious mistake.


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The same premise as above. If we believe we are already in the millennium...why prepare?

3. There is One True God and He is Jesus Christ...believe in His name.


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To declare that Jesus is the Son of God alone and not KNOW that He is God puts one's soul in great jeopardy.

 

[Albion]

They are the three I believe will most deceive Christians.

1. There is no rapture..be prepared.

​

A rapture to fly believers away before the tribulation is a satanic lie and completely in conflict with God's Word. We are to endure the tribulation (a time of great deception) but if we think we will be snatched up...why study about that time, why be concerned about the events Jesus tells us will take place and to...prepare for?

2. Belief that the end of this age happened in 70AD and is not future is a serious mistake.


​

The same premise as above. If we believe we are already in the millennium...why prepare?

3. There is One True God and He is Jesus Christ...believe in His name.


​

To declare that Jesus is the Son of God alone and not KNOW that He is God puts one's soul in great jeopardy.

I see. But that seems somewhat different from identifying items that are essential to the faith or to salvation.

 

[Scott4Him]

They are the three I believe will most deceive Christians.

1. There is no rapture..be prepared.

A rapture to fly believers away before the tribulation is a satanic lie and completely in conflict with God's Word. We are to endure the tribulation (a time of great deception) but if we think we will be snatched up...why study about that time, why be concerned about the events Jesus tells us will take place and to...prepare for?
2. Belief that the end of this age happened in 70AD and is not future is a serious mistake.

The same premise as above. If we believe we are already in the millennium...why prepare?

3. There is One True God and He is Jesus Christ...believe in His name.

To declare that Jesus is the Son of God alone and not KNOW that He is God puts one's soul in great jeopardy.

I'd agree that Christians will go through the tribulation. (Although i do believe that after that we will be called or, to put it another wat, raptured). I disagree that a proper eschatology is essential to salvation.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I tend to apply revelation to psychology .

 

[Gnarwhal]

I tend to apply revelation to psychology .

How so?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Sometimes I wonder a bit if maybe the Apocalypse is a 1st century account of a magic-mushroom trip

 

[QueSi]

Sometimes I wonder a bit if maybe the Apocalypse is a 1st century account of a magic-mushroom trip

That's one bad trip! Count me out on those shrooms.

 

[shturt678]

I tend to apply revelation to psychology .

Ie, especially Rev.8:7, etc. where the psychological cognative error's working affect the cerebral cortex, ie, when one bumps into doctrinal Truth and views these Truths as lies, psycologically stunning!

Hope my friend MoreCoffee still Sabbath resting in the lord, ie, always liked the RCC's mystic traditions dealing with "psychology."

 

[MoreCoffee]

Sabbath is over, dear shturt678.

But It is now the Lord's day, and I shall (God willing) celebrate the Lord's resurrection and participate in his sacrifice by eating at the Lamb's table.

 

[shturt678]

Sabbath is over, dear shturt678.

But It is not the Lord's day, and I shall (God willing) celebrate the Lord's resurrection and participate in his sacrifice by eating at the Lamb's table.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How so?

Begin with the letters to the seven churches .. apply inwardly .

then look at the vision after that as a figurative framework much like the garden of eden . everything in there is god and man, god and man, god and man and then man reconciled as God . think of the lake of fire as the consuming fire presence of God .. and see the juxtaposed statement "behold! i make all things new!" as your own redemption .. your own inner "o what a wretched man i am" being entirely redeemed one thought and emotion and memory at a time. at the end where the Spirit and the bride say come .. this is your call to ministry .. to invite others to the transformation so they make also be "made naked" deep inside themselves .. and then clothed with the splendor of God.

 

[shturt678]

Begin with the letters to the seven churches .. apply inwardly .

Have to have the pure Word in order to apply 'inwardly,' ie, doctrines of the essentials of the faith for starters. Not going to happen in my life time, eg, move fast forward to the Trumpets.

then look at the vision after that as a figurative framework much like the garden of eden . everything in there is god and man, god and man, god and man and then man reconciled as God . think of the lake of fire as the consuming fire presence of God .. and see the juxtaposed statement "behold! i make all things new!" as your own redemption .. your own inner "o what a wretched man i am" being entirely redeemed one thought and emotion and memory at a time. at the end where the Spirit and the bride say come .. this is your call to ministry .. to invite others to the transformation so they make also be "made naked" deep inside themselves .. and then clothed with the splendor of God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Have to have the pure Word in order to apply 'inwardly,' ie, doctrines of the essentials of the faith for starters. Not going to happen in my life time, eg, move fast forward to the Trumpets.

It's all obtainable . but it begins with the seven churches . those are the basis . if you haven't applied those inwardly . the rest of the story won't make as much sense except as a fantasy novel about a prince on a white horse defeating a dragon .

but that's what i meant by applying it to psychology . you asked . i explained how it works for me . understanding each instance of the "seven" in revelation begins with the first seven . understanding the trumpets .. means intimately knowing the first trumpet .. to the last . not all trumpets are called trumpets .. some are implied .

the Trumpets represent the awakening of your prophetic voice . the first trumpet was the sound of the voice of God . and the final trump was the shout of Jesus with the voice of an archangel as a trumpet .. so in the intimate knowledge .. you do not know .. you become

 

[Gregory Thompson]

of course .. how to read revelation is very "negotiable" . occasionally i might draw a line .. but only when it speaks of a God .. that is not the Father of Jesus from the gospels .

 

[shturt678]

It's all obtainable . but it begins with the seven churches . those are the basis . if you haven't applied those inwardly . the rest of the story won't make as much sense except as a fantasy novel about a prince on a white horse defeating a dragon .

but that's what i meant by applying it to psychology . you asked . i explained how it works for me . understanding each instance of the "seven" in revelation begins with the first seven . understanding the trumpets .. means intimately knowing the first trumpet .. to the last . not all trumpets are called trumpets .. some are implied .

the Trumpets represent the awakening of your prophetic voice . the first trumpet was the sound of the voice of God . and the final trump was the shout of Jesus with the voice of an archangel as a trumpet .. so in the intimate knowledge .. you do not know .. you become

The main thought of Revelation, being the Trumpets which just simply expounds IIThess.2:11, 12, is not only veiled but appears as a lie to most when it is simply unveiled. The irony is that most will have forever to think about it and will fully understand, ie, however a little late. Most don't even have a clue as to how important this thread even is. Again, they'll have a long time to catch up, ie, between looking for pain meds.

 

[Rev Randy]

Begin with the letters to the seven churches .. apply inwardly .

then look at the vision after that as a figurative framework much like the garden of eden . everything in there is god and man, god and man, god and man and then man reconciled as God . think of the lake of fire as the consuming fire presence of God .. and see the juxtaposed statement "behold! i make all things new!" as your own redemption .. your own inner "o what a wretched man i am" being entirely redeemed one thought and emotion and memory at a time. at the end where the Spirit and the bride say come .. this is your call to ministry .. to invite others to the transformation so they make also be "made naked" deep inside themselves .. and then clothed with the splendor of God.

While I agree that any advice given in them would be good advice today, the message was for the specific ones written to and addressed the problem within those Churches. Without a doubt some groups are still facing those or closely related issues. But who it was written to is who it was written to. Making it a future thing is not examining the history. Not an old dead letter but a historical fact that we can learn from.

 

[Standing Up]

While I agree that any advice given in them would be good advice today, the message was for the specific ones written to and addressed the problem within those Churches. Without a doubt some groups are still facing those or closely related issues. But who it was written to is who it was written to. Making it a future thing is not examining the history. Not an old dead letter but a historical fact that we can learn from.

So, you'd also conclude Timothy letters or Romans or 1 Peter are not for us?

 

[shturt678]

So, you'd also conclude Timothy letters or Romans or 1 Peter are not for us?

Not directly to us as we are not the Epistle type "elect," hence indirectly for us.

The letters in Revelation represent the universal physical church on earth until the Lord's Parousia hence contain deceived make-believers also of course and definitely directed to those that are truly in the Kingdom of God (forensically, secretly called from heaven), ie, are actually the "elect" as in the Epistles, eg, Romans, Timothy, IPet. and etc. hence "elect" + non-elect in Revelation and only the "elect" in the Epistles. The "elect" in the Gospels "become the elect" hence different and due to most cannot separate ergo they think they have their ticket to heaven. What a surprise they will receive. I would rather be surprised now.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

While I agree that any advice given in them would be good advice today, the message was for the specific ones written to and addressed the problem within those Churches. Without a doubt some groups are still facing those or closely related issues. But who it was written to is who it was written to. Making it a future thing is not examining the history. Not an old dead letter but a historical fact that we can learn from.

I skip the preterist futurist debate and just look at how it can edify . period .

 

[Gnarwhal]

Begin with the letters to the seven churches .. apply inwardly .

then look at the vision after that as a figurative framework much like the garden of eden . everything in there is god and man, god and man, god and man and then man reconciled as God . think of the lake of fire as the consuming fire presence of God .. and see the juxtaposed statement "behold! i make all things new!" as your own redemption .. your own inner "o what a wretched man i am" being entirely redeemed one thought and emotion and memory at a time. at the end where the Spirit and the bride say come .. this is your call to ministry .. to invite others to the transformation so they make also be "made naked" deep inside themselves .. and then clothed with the splendor of God.

Hm, I figured you meant how a person interprets it (especially those that clearly apply their own) and what specifically they may focus on the most, reflects their own psyche. That's something I picked up on a while back...