What do you understand the core message of Christianity to be?

[Josheb]

be careful. rumour has it that the long winded's salvation is in jeopardy.

Off-topic. Noted as such and then ignored.

That should be short enough to comprehend.

 

[Josheb]

Nope.

Evidence says otherwise.

Perhaps you should...

Perhaps you should stick to the op and not make the posts about the posters.

Yes, and? He made the universe and it is all ultimately about Him.

You have yet to prove that case; the evidence posted from scripture proves otherwise and when given the opportunity it is now evidence an affirmation of at least part of what was posted, followed by the choice to deny, attack, ask rhetorical questions already answered and avoid scripture.

All of Creation was made for His purposes, to serve and glorify Him. Do you deny this?

Already answered that question preemptively - before it was asked. Why as a question already answered? Is it because my post was completely read? Was it the post wasn't fully comprehended? Was it because it was read and understood but there is no regard for the actual content? Was it because there's no genuine interest in resolving the disagreement and this is troll? Whatever it is or isn't asking questions already answered is a Fail.

All creation is made for His purposes and I quoted scripture's report of what those purposes are. You just ignored that content.

Yes, and? This doesn't negate the fact that all of Creation exists by and for God.

Nice move of the goal posts. The discussion isn't about what creation is or isn't This OP is about the core message of Christianity. I briefly surveyed scripture to show all scripture is about Christ; the entirety of the law, prophets, psalms, and the NT is about Christ incarnate dead, resurrected, ascended and enthroned so that we could be made like him, raised incorruptible and immortal.

And the response received is rhetorical inquiries already answered and addressed and an absence of scripture.

Yes. This was my point in the post you said was a "fail."

Fail.

1) You point is off-topic. This discussion is about the core message of Christianity, not creation.
2) You denied "God and us." That is in fact a blunt, undeniable failure to understand Christianity.
3) The above nonsense ofasking rhetorical questions already answered is not veracious or efficacy.
4) If there is agreement then a two simple words are all that is necessary: "I agree."


A hearty, "I completely agree and should not have conflated creation with Christianity, nor stated so bluntly 'Not God and us,'" would be even better.

None of this alters the supremacy and centrality of God in Creation

Red herring. No one here has said otherwise or remotely implied or insinuated otherwise. You're till off-topic and not addressing the actual error committed.

Again, none of this defeats what I pointed out about God ultimately being the point of everything - even and particularly Christianity.

Again: the evidence proves otherwise.

Yes, I'm aware

Glad to read that because the evidence up to this point says otherwise.

And the ultimate purpose of God doing this through Christ was His own glorification. Christians are not the ultimate focus of Christianity; God is. This is Christianity 101...

Another read herring. No one here has said, implied, nor insinuated otherwise. The fact is God is not glorified doing this if this doesn't happen. God is not glorified through Christ's life, death,and resurrection if Christ doesn't live, die and resurrect. God is not glorified by creating us in Christ and raising us incorruptible and immortal if we are not made in Christ and raised thusly. Christianity is in fact about God and us and you went on record denying that fact. I gave you and every reader here scripture evidencing my dissent. You? Not so much. Instead I received fallacies of red herring, goal post moving, and the conflation of creation and Christianity.

You screwed up.


All creation is about God and the triune God glorified but that is not the topic of this discussion. All scripture is about Christ; Christ incarnate, crucified, dead, resurrected, ascended and enthroned but that is not the topic of this discussion, either. This OP is about Christianity, a subset condition under both scripture and creation.

Christianity is by definition about little christs, so the "us" cannot be removed from its core message. The post I commended earlier did an excellent job of reporting the core message of Christianity. The post from which I dissented did not. The response my dissent proved my case.

 

[aiki]

Perhaps you should stick to the op and not make the posts about the posters.

Right back at you.

He made the universe and it is all ultimately about Him.

You have yet to prove that case

You don't believe God made the universe? You don't believe it is all ultimately about Him?

Colossians 1:16-17
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Not only does Creation exist by God, it exists for Him, as Paul indicates in this verse. Our Creator deigns to interact with us, but as the ultimate Source of All Things, the Ground of All Reality, God has a preeminence in Creation none of us can begin to approach. This is basic Christian doctrine and in light of it my first post in this thread should be uncontroversial.

John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

God is totally non-contingent, existing as a necessity of His own being, and all that is depends upon Him for existence. This is, I think, the beginning point, the center of the center, of Christian doctrine. There is no Christianity without such a God as it's Ground and prime focus.

Isaiah 43:7
7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

If any verse in Scripture supports my view that everything - and particularly Christianity - is ultimately about God, this is it. Every person who is called by God's name (ie. "little Christ") is created ultimately for His glory.

1 Corinthians 10:31
31 Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Here, too, Scripture sets God's glory as the ultimate goal of the believer's life, reinforcing the idea that Christianity is centered upon the Creator, not the creature, just as I pointed out in my first post to this thread. (See also Matthew 5:16)

Nice move of the goal posts. The discussion isn't about what creation is or isn't This OP is about the core message of Christianity.

??? Creation necessarily includes Christianity, as it does any and all things that exist. To talk of the ultimate purpose of Creation is to talk, then, of the ultimate purpose of Christianity. So, no, the goalposts haven't moved.

Fail.

1) You point is off-topic. This discussion is about the core message of Christianity, not creation.
2) You denied "God and us." That is in fact a blunt, undeniable failure to understand Christianity.
3) The above nonsense ofasking rhetorical questions already answered is not veracious or efficacy.
4) If there is agreement then a two simple words are all that is necessary: "I agree."

Nope. Try again, if you like.

A hearty, "I completely agree and should not have conflated creation with Christianity, nor stated so bluntly 'Not God and us,'" would be even better.

You reap what you sow. If you want agreeable responses, don't be so disagreeable.

Red herring. No one here has said otherwise or remotely implied or insinuated otherwise. You're till off-topic and not addressing the actual error committed.

??? I am not in any way beholden to you for what I post. I will address the OP as I see fit and comment in this thread as I wish. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.

Again, none of this defeats what I pointed out about God ultimately being the point of everything - even and particularly Christianity.

Again: the evidence proves otherwise.

Nope.

Glad to read that because the evidence up to this point says otherwise.

Uh huh.

Another read herring. No one here has said, implied, nor insinuated otherwise. The fact is God is not glorified doing this if this doesn't happen. God is not glorified through Christ's life, death,and resurrection if Christ doesn't live, die and resurrect.

Uh huh.

Christianity is in fact about God and us and you went on record denying that fact.

Nope.

Here, again, is this problem you're having with not understanding the import of the word "ultimately." If I had written that Christianity is solely about God or only about God, you'd have some ground to make the comment you have here. But, "ultimately" acknowledges implicitly that there are other lesser purposes God fulfills in the process of His own glorification. It is a wonder to me that I have to explain this to you...Sheesh.

I gave you and every reader here scripture evidencing my dissent.

What you did was reveal that you had not properly understood my comments - as you continue to do as you froth at the mouth over my not submitting myself to your point of view.

You screwed up.

No, actually, you did.

All creation is about God and the triune God glorified but that is not the topic of this discussion.

Obviously, I disagree about what the topic of this thread is. In any case, I'm not obliged to approach the topic of this thread just as you think I should. Much as you seem to want to be the "thread police," you aren't.

Christianity is by definition about little christs, so the "us" cannot be removed from its core message.

This is silly. Christianity is, by definition (and your own admission), about the Christ. The core message of the faith is about him. We are a secondary feature in the religion, in my view, hence, my initial post in this thread.

The post I commended earlier did an excellent job of reporting the core message of Christianity. The post from which I dissented did not. The response my dissent proved my case.

Uh huh.

 

[Josheb]

Right back at you.

You have not made th case for the core message of Christianity to be all about God and not God and us and you are wasting my time and everyone else's arguing a straw man. I stated quite plainly in post #27,

"It was by, through, and for him that all things were created. Within that creation is the fact we are being created in his image (Eph. 2:10) culminating in our being raised incorruptible and immortal. Without us there is no warrant for any sacrifice."​

.
So how you now claim I deny God as Creator is beyond comprehension. You are off-topic (this op is not about whether God created the universe) and clearly ignoring content already posted.

Josh: It was by, through, and for him that all things were created.
aiki: Yes. This was my point in the post you said was a "fail."

So you knew I'd acknowledged God as Creaotr and here you are claiming I deny the truth.

And I did not say God creating the universe was a Fail. I said your excluding humanity from the core message of Christianity was a Fail, and I stand by that comment.

aiki: God. Not God and us. Just God. He is the Core of Christianity and the Core of all reality and truth. Everything is ultimately about Him.
Josh: Fail. God could have left Himself unknown and everything would have been about Him and Him alone. The moment creation was created a relationship with something other than God was likewise created. 1 Peter 1:20 tells us that necessarily had to do with Jesus and with Jesus as the perfect blemish-free sacrifice foreknown before the world was created. It was by, through, and for him that all things were created. Within that creation is the fact we are being created in his image (Eph. 2:10) culminating in our being raised incorruptible and immortal. Without us there is no warrant for any sacrifice.

Christianity is Christ crucified and resurrected to bring us into eternal fellowship with the God Who is inherently relational; the triune God Who exists inherently already in-relationship bringing us into that pre-existent relationship.


You see you conflated "the core message of Christianity," with "the core of Christianity." Those are not the same two things.

You screwed up.

And because you screwed up and then tried to defend the screw up you attacked another poster who correctly corrected the error.


Now........


Do the right thing and correct your mistake.

 

[aiki]

You have not made th case for the core message of Christianity to be all about God and not God and us and you are wasting my time and everyone else's arguing a straw man.

I did not ask you to comment on my post. You are responsible for whatever amount of your time you feel you've wasted, not me. After this post, I will say no more to you on this matter. Persist if you like in tilting at windmills, but you're just making yourself a nuisance in doing so.

So how you now claim I deny God as Creator is beyond comprehension.

Where did I claim this, exactly?

You are off-topic (this op is not about whether God created the universe) and clearly ignoring content already posted.

Again, you don't have any power to constrain my responses or direct me in what is or is not on or off topic. I am not beholden to you in the least in what I offer as a response to the OP. And so, if you don't like how I've replied to the OP, simply stop reading my posts.

Josh: It was by, through, and for him that all things were created.
aiki: Yes. This was my point in the post you said was a "fail."

So you knew I'd acknowledged God as Creaotr and here you are claiming I deny the truth.

??? I don't see any such claim being made here...Are you okay? Your responses to me seem to be growing increasingly...confused.

And I did not say God creating the universe was a Fail. I said your excluding humanity from the core message of Christianity was a Fail, and I stand by that comment.

Well, good for you! You should stand by what you write - even if it's confused.

I never wrote that you had said God creating the universe was a fail.

You see you conflated "the core message of Christianity," with "the core of Christianity." Those are not the same two things.

Nope. Any conflation going has occurred on your end, not mine. I have never been confused about the difference between the divine core of Christianity and the "message" of Christianity.

You screwed up.

Nope. You did. And you're blathering on, I think, to cover this fact.

And because you screwed up and then tried to defend the screw up you attacked another poster who correctly corrected the error.

Nope. I have only fended off an obnoxious fellow poster who is so eager to correct others and control a thread over which he has no real power that he didn't take the time to actually comprehend what I'd written.

Now........


Do the right thing and correct your mistake.

I would if I'd actually made one.

 

[Josheb]

Nope. Any conflation going has occurred on your end, not mine. I have never been confused about the difference between the divine core of Christianity and the "message" of Christianity.

Well.... let's look at the record, shall we?

The OP, Post #1, is a single question. That question is all that is posted in the opening post and it is that single question that is to be answered and discussed. There is no other inquiry or comment in the op.

What do you understand the core message of Christianity to be?

That's post #1; the Opening Post. Here's what you first posted: In Post #27 the op was quoted and replied,

God. Not God and us. Just God. He is the Core of Christianity and the Core of all reality and truth. Everything is ultimately about Him.

The word "message" was left out.

The "core message of Christianity" is not the same thing as "the core of Christianity." The op did not ask "What is the core of Christianity?" The op asked "What is the core message of Christianity?"

You screwed up.

And now the clearly evidenced undeniable error is being denied when it was such a simple matter to amend.

I did not ask you to comment on my post.

Non sequitur. I did not ask you to comment on my posts.




The facts in evidence are plain and clear: "the core of Christianity" was confused with "the core message of Christianity," but they are not the same thing; they are not identical clauses. And now at least three posts have been spent denying the undeniable, despite the fact at least three opportunities to correct that mistake were provided. Here's what scripture says about that:

Titus 3:9-11
"...avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."​

"The core message of Christianity.
"The core of Christianity.
"The core message of Christianity."
The core message of being little christs.


I did my part. I made a good faith effort to correct the problem. I highlighted the error and provided several ways to see the necessity of the creature to the Creator in the message of Christianity and I did the same with the distinctions between "core message," "core Christianity" and creation. Patience, kindness, forbearance, hope, and trust were extended to you in hopes of truth and unity but it was all read as if I was evil and ill-intentioned. Go back and re-read through my posts as if the apostle John were writing them and not Jeremiah.


I'll leave you with the last word. I've said my piece and seen the lack of regard for its content.

 

[Tobyan]

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[BobRyan]

What do you understand the core message of Christianity to be?

God so Loved the World that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

As your picture shows "I STAND at the door and knock IF anyone hears My voice AND OPENS the door --> I WILL come in" .

Gal 2
"20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."

1 John 2
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.